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Re: Ole Nydahl and Diamond Way Buddhism
Posted by: Misstyk ()
Date: February 03, 2013 04:03PM

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suenam
In other cases where there are accusations of abuse such as with Kalu and Sogyal (who were both seen as being far more accomplished than Nydahl), the accusations have been about very real and quite mundane uses of coercion, threats, peer pressure, etc. which is exactly the same thing that everyone else on here has written about in regard to Nydhal.

So if someone claims that somehow Nydahl got "inside their head" then it would seem obvious that all these blatant techniques for manipulation were at work here. I understand it might be painful to admit that all the warning signs were missed and that they were duped by a con artist, this does not therefore mean that the con artist is some master magician and that vajrayana is the height of the black arts used to seduce women and feed off their sexual energy.

It seems to me that one way to pull Nydahl's teeth is to debunk these myths and show them for what they really are. I don’t mean to dismiss karam-mudra's experience at all, in fact it seems to me even more damning to DWB to expose these abuses and de-mystify just how they work.
I think everyone's side of the story can be true, insofar as different members of the sangha, each with his/her own psychological constitution will react differently do all the elements involved in a ritual. For some, the prayer, the devotional exercises, and the meditation will induce an altered state of consciousness, potentially making them vulnerable to subtle or not-so-subtle suggestions from the teacher or other highly-trained gurus present. Others will experience nothing more than the reciting of texts and a bit of bowing or prostration on their part, but only as perfunctory exercises. To some, Nydahl would appear empty, an obvious fraud. To others, he would appear as a wise teacher, and to still others, a spiritual master. Everyone present would be seeing him through their own lens of personal experience, personal history, and level of belief or faith.


Even simple meditation will result in completely different reactions from people; some might have instant insight, others will get bored or fall asleep, others may have a psychotic episode. I think this is part of the problem; most gurus aren't equipped to evaluate students as to who is suitable for the practice, and they're certainly not trained to handle an adverse reaction by a student. When you have someone who is an outright con artist and manipulator, and possible a sexual predator, followers who are psychologically fragile, or psychically vulnerable, will be at a tremendous disadvantage.

And in that case, it can become difficult to discuss an event in a group setting (such as we have here, or in the sangha), because some people's perception of what occurred would be completely different from the perception of those sitting next to them. The basic fact is, though, that teachers who use students for personal gain (whether for ego-boost, financial gain, sexual exploitation, whatever the motive) will end up using the psychologically weakest in the group. So we should respect the victim's view of what occurred as we try to sort out what actually transpired.

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Re: Ole Nydahl and Diamond Way Buddhism
Posted by: rrmoderator ()
Date: February 03, 2013 07:47PM

Suenam:

Derren Brown would not be a meaningful measurement to quote here.

It is something like 80% of the general population that is affected by hypnosis. And about 10% on either end of the spectrum that are either heavily affected or not affected at all.

There is no scientific study that states only 2% are affected.

But here we go again racing off topic onto tangents.

This thread seems to have a serious problem staying on topic.

At this point please understand that each post will be moderated and if it is not on topic it will be deleted.

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Re: Ole Nydahl and Diamond Way Buddhism
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: February 05, 2013 10:54PM

bump

Can anyone mention the texts read or referred to in DW?

For example, 50 Stanzas of Guru Devotion?

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Re: Ole Nydahl and Diamond Way Buddhism
Posted by: Sceptic Watcher ()
Date: February 06, 2013 02:08AM

@Corboy
Mostly, they concentrate on Ole's written works:

Ngondro: The Four Foundational Practices of Tibetan Buddhism. Blue Dolphin Publishing (1990). ISBN 978-0-931892-23-3
Riding the Tiger: Twenty Years on the Road - Risks and Joys of Bringing Tibetan Buddhism to the West. Blue Dolphin Publishing (1992). ISBN 978-0-931892-67-7
Entering the Diamond Way: Tibetan Buddhism meets the West. Blue Dolphin Publishing (1999). ISBN 978-0-931892-03-5
The Great Seal: Limitless Space and Joy - The Mahamudra View of Diamond Way Buddhism. Fire Wheel Publishing (2004). ISBN 0-9752954-0-3
The Way Things Are: A living Approach to Buddhism for today's world. O Books (2008). ISBN 978-1-84694-042-2
Buddha and Love: Timeless Wisdom for Modern Relationships. Brio Books (2012). ISBN 978-1937061845
Fearless Death: Buddhist Wisdom on the Art of Dying. Brio Books (2012). ISBN 978-1937061098

This is usually enough to get basic knowledge on buddhism (as I said earlier in the thread, I think his written work doesn't deviate very far from Tibetan Buddhism as taught by other lamas) and also on Ole's life - especially Entering the Diamond Way and Riding the Tiger read similar to a Hagiography.
There are some people who prefer a more scholarly approach to buddhism.vTo get a thorough understanding, their magazine, Buddhism Today, is often recommended - it contains excerpts from Ole's works, but also interviews and explanations by Sharmapa, Thaye Dorje and other Tibetan Lamas that agree with Ole (I remember reading articles by Kalu Rinpoche and Gendun Rinpoche, and likely others).
If somebody is still searching for more theoretical knowledge (which is not explicitly discouraged - but the virtue of meditation and center work are often highlighted), one can read The Jewel Ornament of Liberation by Gampopa, Buddhismus: Alles was man wissen muss by Burkhard Scherer and the book written by Thaye Dorje (Das Buddhistische Buch von Weisheit und Liebe) as well as Sharmapas works.
On the topic of the Karmapa conflict, they use Tomek Lehnert's Rogues in Robes.
However, the vast majority of his students never go beyond Ole's own books.

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Re: Ole Nydahl and Diamond Way Buddhism
Posted by: Mark_Panama ()
Date: February 11, 2013 06:00AM

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Mark_Panama
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Alexander Nevsky
Does anyone know why the discussion on www.lioncity.net about diamond way was closed down?
Alex it’s not only lioncity web page that was closed. The diamondway cult blog was closed down too in 2010.

[diamondwaycult.blogspot.com]

I wonder what the reason was and whether Ole Nydahl’s henchmen hacked into those web pages to lock them down and to get into IP addresses of people who have posted there. I don’t know.

Rick Ross you better buy yourself good software for protection of your web page because this discussion is indeed worth diamonds.

Quote
Kevin Curran
These experiences are hard lived and difficult to come to terms with. I am writing on this forum because I feel this story has to be told and heard.
Kevin I am sorry there that you have had the ideal picture of your teacher popped but that’s life. You have to get a grip and accept things as they are. Ole is not an honest man. I know it is extremely difficult to come to terms with what you have been through but maybe in long term you will find it liberating. Maybe it is better for you and your friends not to belong to the diamondway centre in Ireland, which anyway has only one Irish member.

Dublin diamondway is a very dangerous sect and it is time for Irish government to step in. It is Ole Nydahl’s monstrous child which I hope will bit him in the ass. It is his own making, a direct result of his own decisions. He had other options to choose from but he didn’t and that is the whole point. Things could have happened differently should Nydahl have acted as an honest person. The proof is in the pudding.

Whether these decisions were entirely his own or was he misguided and misinformed by Steven James is not entirely clear. There is a substantial body of evidence of James’ manipulative involvement, nevertheless it is difficult to know to which extend he was a factor in Ole’s decision making process.

Ole Nydahl if you don’t come clear on the Dublin issue this will not go away. The best for you is to admit you made a mistake and to apologise. Swallow your pride. It is in your own well understood self interest.

Steven James’ story is a sad one. I used to like him as a teacher and he was among my favourites. Sadly it now became clear that he did manipulate and did alter Hannah Nydahl’s decisions relating Dublin after her death. So we need to ask ourselves a question of what position does he think he has in the diamondway and the real role he is playing. That’s very sad.

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SteveLpool
I was reading this report into the alarming rise in anti-Semitism in Germany on the BBC this morning.
SteveLpool thanks for the link. Needless to say that the meditation hall in Warsaw was initially named Valhalla.
[hala.buddyzm.pl]

The name was latter changed into Buddha’s Hall after an upheaval it caused.

[hala.buddyzm.pl]

I suppose we all know what Valhalla was. Originally the name comes from the Norse mythology but this term was incorporated into Nazi ideology and it does not have good connotations.

[books.google.ie]

[books.google.ie]

[en.wikipedia.org]

The newspaper, which published the article about diamondway Buddhists from Warsaw protesting side by side with local Nazis against a Muslim mosque, has lost their case against the diamondway.

Maybe someone could give us some insight into this lawsuit.

Having said that I have to admit that Warsaw diamondway center can under no circumstances be classified in the same category as the Dublin one. The difference between the two is major. The Warsaw center, despite its right wing bend, does play its role as a place of transmission of Buddhist teachings and there is a lot of good happening there. It is a place of live Buddhist practice against the odds.

Quote
karam-mudra
Here on my blog you can find the positions of Sharmapa recording Nydahl and the Tantric teachings:
Marte Micaela I have read your blog. One brave woman you are, hey ;)

Good luck to you all!


This blog hitting 180 000 views today.

Ole Nydahl's visit in Dublin and still seriously unfinished business left. As I have said before Nydahl, it is not going away and will not. Take my word for it; every living Buddhist in this fucking world will know what has happened in this Sangha. I guarantee it.

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Re: Ole Nydahl and Diamond Way Buddhism
Posted by: ~*~ k a t e ~*~ ()
Date: February 23, 2013 04:05AM

Ole Nydahl's going to Dublin soon?

Well next time he comes to London or Liverpool, he'll be met with protests, just like the last time...

His glory days in the UK where he was free to spread his hate speech are over. Protests follow him and the UK govt even once considered banning him from the country for his hate speech. The game is up, Nydahl...!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/23/2013 04:06AM by ~*~ k a t e ~*~.

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Re: Ole Nydahl and Diamond Way Buddhism
Posted by: Alexander Nevsky ()
Date: March 04, 2013 12:28AM

Just to make sure that the Dublin Diamondway topic doesn't disappear from the agenda and to give it a good visibility worldwide - I am once again posting the library of RRF Dublin DW reference pages that I made in January last year.

Surely there are some posts which are missing from this list but it still contains some important ones. If you feel it should be updated please feel free to do so.

Dublin Diamond Way – Library of reference pages

September 2010

[forum.culteducation.com]

[forum.culteducation.com]

[forum.culteducation.com]

November 2010

[forum.culteducation.com]

January, February 2011

[forum.culteducation.com]

[forum.culteducation.com]

April 2011

[forum.culteducation.com]

November 2011

[forum.culteducation.com]

[forum.culteducation.com]

December 2011

[forum.culteducation.com]

[forum.culteducation.com]

January 2012

[forum.culteducation.com]

[forum.culteducation.com]

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Re: Ole Nydahl and Diamond Way Buddhism
Posted by: ~*~ k a t e ~*~ ()
Date: March 28, 2013 04:10AM

bump

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Re: Ole Nydahl and Diamond Way Buddhism
Posted by: dariusb ()
Date: March 30, 2013 05:09AM

Not about Ole or DWB but still interesting thoughts.
[sweepingzen.com]

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Re: Ole Nydahl and Diamond Way Buddhism
Posted by: Rudi ()
Date: May 04, 2013 08:49PM

Ole says "highest truth is highest bliss". Does he have this statement from Buddhist texts, e.g. the Tantras, or is it his own? Do other teachers also say this?
Any hints greatly appreciated.

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