Re: Ole Nydahl and Diamond Way Buddhism
Posted by:
rrmoderator
()
Date: September 23, 2010 04:38AM
Tony Dublin:
Stop including email addresses and/or any contact information within your posts.
This is against the rules you agreed to before posting here.
Stop including email addresses and/or any contact information within your posts.
This is against the rules you agreed to before posting here.
Re: Ole Nydahl and Diamond Way Buddhism
Posted by:
Sceptic Watcher
()
Date: September 23, 2010 09:37PM
@Tony Dublin
Could you provide a reliable translation of the polish article? Google Translator creates something that is readable, but far from clear.
@Tenzin Peljor
In one of his books, Nydahl writes about the incident, but doesn't go into details about what exactly the letter said, only that Trungpa referred to him as Rudra.
Could you provide a reliable translation of the polish article? Google Translator creates something that is readable, but far from clear.
@Tenzin Peljor
In one of his books, Nydahl writes about the incident, but doesn't go into details about what exactly the letter said, only that Trungpa referred to him as Rudra.
Re: Ole Nydahl and Diamond Way Buddhism
Posted by:
SteveLpool
()
Date: September 23, 2010 11:26PM
Hi Tony Dublin.
I am a little confused by your post and was wondering if you could clear up a few points for me?
I gather from your post that there was a fledgling DWB group in Dublin that was initially being populated with Irish members? My understanding from your post was that after a period of time the central and eastern European members decided to take control? As a result the Irish members left the sangha. Am I correct in understanding you post this way?
Am I right in understanding that in 2007 the members who had seized control sent out an e-mail threatening the exclusion of those they deemed unfit for DWB practices?
Do you have a copy of this e-mail you could post on this forum?
The person who wrote the e-mail threatening expulsions has a history of a mental illness? Even knowing this information Ole Nydahl still gave this person the right to control the Dublin centre?
Forgive me asking you to clarify these points I just wanted a clear understanding of the situation you experienced before going into greater depth.
I don’t think we had the pleasure of meeting. I know some members of the Liverpool sangha came to visit the Dublin centre but I didn’t make the journey. I overheard some discussions about the Dublin group while I was attending and living in the Liverpool Centre but I was never included in any discussions about the situation in Dublin. So from this perspective I can’t offer anything meaningful from the side of DWB from when I was attending.
I can tell you that one of the factors for my eventually leaving DWB was because I opposed the proposed expulsion of several members who were deemed “unsuitable” for the methods of Ole Nydahl’s DWB. These expulsions were to be chosen by the male founder of the centre and his wife. I’m sure you know of who I refer to (I do not wish to make their identities known here).
For me, whilst I wasn’t “thrown out” of the centre, my position was made so uncomfortable that I felt I could no longer attend. This seems like a similar tactic to the one employed in Dublin.
If you can share any other experiences that might lend weight to the claims of other members of this forum (or indeed, dispute the claims made) I’m sure it would help others who stumble across this forum make an informed decision with regards to practicing at DWB centres.
Thanks
Steve
I am a little confused by your post and was wondering if you could clear up a few points for me?
I gather from your post that there was a fledgling DWB group in Dublin that was initially being populated with Irish members? My understanding from your post was that after a period of time the central and eastern European members decided to take control? As a result the Irish members left the sangha. Am I correct in understanding you post this way?
Am I right in understanding that in 2007 the members who had seized control sent out an e-mail threatening the exclusion of those they deemed unfit for DWB practices?
Do you have a copy of this e-mail you could post on this forum?
The person who wrote the e-mail threatening expulsions has a history of a mental illness? Even knowing this information Ole Nydahl still gave this person the right to control the Dublin centre?
Forgive me asking you to clarify these points I just wanted a clear understanding of the situation you experienced before going into greater depth.
I don’t think we had the pleasure of meeting. I know some members of the Liverpool sangha came to visit the Dublin centre but I didn’t make the journey. I overheard some discussions about the Dublin group while I was attending and living in the Liverpool Centre but I was never included in any discussions about the situation in Dublin. So from this perspective I can’t offer anything meaningful from the side of DWB from when I was attending.
I can tell you that one of the factors for my eventually leaving DWB was because I opposed the proposed expulsion of several members who were deemed “unsuitable” for the methods of Ole Nydahl’s DWB. These expulsions were to be chosen by the male founder of the centre and his wife. I’m sure you know of who I refer to (I do not wish to make their identities known here).
For me, whilst I wasn’t “thrown out” of the centre, my position was made so uncomfortable that I felt I could no longer attend. This seems like a similar tactic to the one employed in Dublin.
If you can share any other experiences that might lend weight to the claims of other members of this forum (or indeed, dispute the claims made) I’m sure it would help others who stumble across this forum make an informed decision with regards to practicing at DWB centres.
Thanks
Steve
Re: Ole Nydahl and Diamond Way Buddhism
Posted by:
SteveLpool
()
Date: September 23, 2010 11:45PM
Quote:
From: Mira Boboli [...]
Date: Sat, Jul 4, 2009 at 8:48 AM
Subject: Dublin confusion
[...]
It seems that you are quite confused. Take a cold shower and start to think.
Greetings,
Warsaw Center
There is the old criticism leveled at anyone who questions Nydahls authority..... "you are confused"!
I got so sick of hearing how people who didn't swallow the DWB pill without question were "confused" or "confusion types".
I'm sure that after I left I was accused of being confused. I am aware that it was claimed by the controllers of the Liverpool centre that it was my "pride" which led to my eventual departure. It isn't pride that makes someone refuse to associate with racists....
From: Mira Boboli [...]
Date: Sat, Jul 4, 2009 at 8:48 AM
Subject: Dublin confusion
[...]
It seems that you are quite confused. Take a cold shower and start to think.
Greetings,
Warsaw Center
There is the old criticism leveled at anyone who questions Nydahls authority..... "you are confused"!
I got so sick of hearing how people who didn't swallow the DWB pill without question were "confused" or "confusion types".
I'm sure that after I left I was accused of being confused. I am aware that it was claimed by the controllers of the Liverpool centre that it was my "pride" which led to my eventual departure. It isn't pride that makes someone refuse to associate with racists....
Re: Ole Nydahl and Diamond Way Buddhism
Posted by:
Blondie
()
Date: September 26, 2010 01:26AM
Hello All,
I'm a new member but have been reading here for quite a while now.
My partner is really getting heavily involved in this cult, being worried for him I have attended meetings lectures and functions to see what it is all about. I can identify with what everyone is saying here on this forum but my partner refuses to read it or have anything 'untoward' discussed about it's chief 'Lama'. I guess he will have to find out for himself, hopefully sooner rather than later.
Earlier this week we attended two lectures in London, what a fiasco!
On both evenings the lecture was scheduled to start at 8.00pm but was nearer to 8.30pm and went on until 12.00 midnight.
On the first night the fire alarms went off, we all evacuated and hung around outside for over half an hour, no doubt some idiot from a rival group caused it, it was a false alarm.
We had paid £15 each for tickets making £60 in total for the two lectures. I can honestly say I hardly understood a thing this Ole guy was mumbling about, he was very weary sounding and peppered most of his sentences with the words 'you know' which made for very boring listening.
The whole of the lecture hall was abuzz with activity throughout the lectures and very distracting, people coming and going, others walking backwards and forwards across the back of the stage or miniskirted young girls in black tights bending at his knees offering him food and drink, indeed he thought nothing of eating and drinking over the microphone and at one point he blew his nose very loudly which almost turned me sick!!!!
He had bare feet and looked quite unkempt, not what I expected at all from someone who had sold a great number of tickets to give public lectures, very unprofessional in anyone's book I would say.
On the second night he also decided to change the advertised Lecture which was supposed to be on Death and Re-birth, someone must have told him he couldn't do that as he later stated that he would do a condensed lecture on it which he did and then proceeded to do his own thing explaining some text about Tilopa which was meaningless to me and not what I had paid to listen to.
As I looked around the room between the people who were wandering around, chatting/hugging/waving to each other others were yawning, some looking at the ceiling, one couple even lay down on the floor and snogged!!!
What was more disturbing was the number of people who were sniffing some kind of powder up their noses, I wouldn't like to speculate on what it was but it did not look good at all.
I felt as if I was in some kind of Hippie Commune rather than in a lecture hall!!!
I most certainly will be making sure that I don't subject myself to any such torture again!
This is quite obviously a money making machine that is financing tours of the world for it's racist, egotistical leader along with his lovers and entourage!
I pray my partner wakes up soon.
Love and Light.
Blondie x
I'm a new member but have been reading here for quite a while now.
My partner is really getting heavily involved in this cult, being worried for him I have attended meetings lectures and functions to see what it is all about. I can identify with what everyone is saying here on this forum but my partner refuses to read it or have anything 'untoward' discussed about it's chief 'Lama'. I guess he will have to find out for himself, hopefully sooner rather than later.
Earlier this week we attended two lectures in London, what a fiasco!
On both evenings the lecture was scheduled to start at 8.00pm but was nearer to 8.30pm and went on until 12.00 midnight.
On the first night the fire alarms went off, we all evacuated and hung around outside for over half an hour, no doubt some idiot from a rival group caused it, it was a false alarm.
We had paid £15 each for tickets making £60 in total for the two lectures. I can honestly say I hardly understood a thing this Ole guy was mumbling about, he was very weary sounding and peppered most of his sentences with the words 'you know' which made for very boring listening.
The whole of the lecture hall was abuzz with activity throughout the lectures and very distracting, people coming and going, others walking backwards and forwards across the back of the stage or miniskirted young girls in black tights bending at his knees offering him food and drink, indeed he thought nothing of eating and drinking over the microphone and at one point he blew his nose very loudly which almost turned me sick!!!!
He had bare feet and looked quite unkempt, not what I expected at all from someone who had sold a great number of tickets to give public lectures, very unprofessional in anyone's book I would say.
On the second night he also decided to change the advertised Lecture which was supposed to be on Death and Re-birth, someone must have told him he couldn't do that as he later stated that he would do a condensed lecture on it which he did and then proceeded to do his own thing explaining some text about Tilopa which was meaningless to me and not what I had paid to listen to.
As I looked around the room between the people who were wandering around, chatting/hugging/waving to each other others were yawning, some looking at the ceiling, one couple even lay down on the floor and snogged!!!
What was more disturbing was the number of people who were sniffing some kind of powder up their noses, I wouldn't like to speculate on what it was but it did not look good at all.
I felt as if I was in some kind of Hippie Commune rather than in a lecture hall!!!
I most certainly will be making sure that I don't subject myself to any such torture again!
This is quite obviously a money making machine that is financing tours of the world for it's racist, egotistical leader along with his lovers and entourage!
I pray my partner wakes up soon.
Love and Light.
Blondie x
Re: Ole Nydahl and Diamond Way Buddhism
Posted by:
Tony Dublin
()
Date: September 26, 2010 03:10AM
To rrmoderator:
Apologies, wasn't aware of that rule. Yes, please do remove all e-mail addresses from the post, as I have no possibility to edit it. Thanks :)
To Sceptic Watcher:
I don't have an authorised version of that, but maybe the author has. I have contacted Joanna Rajkowska via her web page and she is quite good with responding. Was actually quite surprised she wrote back.
I cannot post any e-mail addresses on the blog, but you can write to her on www.rajkowska.com.
Cheers!
To Steve Lpool:
Steve, nice to hear from you. Thanks for writting.
Interesting, didn't know that story about Malinowski and his wife. Have to talk to my friends and will come back to you.
Dublin DW group was never overpopulated with Paddies, but there were a few. I have met around ten myself. All of them left.
Before leaving the group one of them wrote:
(for the purpose of privacy I'm not going to give his details or in any way indicate who it was)
NCR center - the letter is talking about is an old location of DWC on North Circular Road
----- Original Message -----
From: XXX
To: XXX
Sent: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 04:40:29 +0000
Subject:
Dear Friends,
An old saying in Ireland is let's call a spade a spade and not delude
ourselves into thinking it is something else.
Forgive me for being so honest with you but I have been thinking about the
NCR place and I have to be honest and say that I am not now nor was I ever
comfortable being there. It seems to have very little to do with giving
ordinary people what they need which is real hope and freedom, hope,
friendship, love, peace of mind and a place to be themselves.
(...)
One or two individuals have been running the show from the start and anyone
who doesn't agree with them has been sidelined or has had to leave the
group. And believe me a lot of good people have felt that they have no
option but to leave. I won't go into the names here. The centre in NCR
has completely failed in its mission and is incapable of attracting ordinary
people because of the culture there - the atmosphere is very boring, heavy,
authoritarian, negative and closed-minded. It really feels like a 'cult' and
it certainly has all the characteristics of one. The sooner it shuts down
the better as it is an abomination in terms of buddhist teachings and has
very little if anything to do with the dharma teaching of great karma kagyu
school of Tibet.
(...)
While a cult may seem nice for a short time if you are a lonely person the
teachings say that untimately it is impermanent like everything else and
will fall apart. It is not a true refuge. I am sorry to have to say this but
I hope the NCR centre closes as soon as possible and the people disband for
their own good before they get sucked into this ignorant cult
even more.
(...)
This country has suffered enough from religious authoritarianism in
the past
(...)
karmapa chenno,
XXX
Steve, I will try to find the letter about "rooting people away from the Kagyu family".
And yes, its author is Dublin DWC manager. He was hospitalised in St Brigid's Psychiatric Hospital in Ardee. He was also in Alcoholics Anonymous. Joined the group in March 2007 as far as I know and in December 2007 was approved by Ole as Dublin DWC manager.
I will stay in touch.
All the best lads,
Tony
Apologies, wasn't aware of that rule. Yes, please do remove all e-mail addresses from the post, as I have no possibility to edit it. Thanks :)
To Sceptic Watcher:
I don't have an authorised version of that, but maybe the author has. I have contacted Joanna Rajkowska via her web page and she is quite good with responding. Was actually quite surprised she wrote back.
I cannot post any e-mail addresses on the blog, but you can write to her on www.rajkowska.com.
Cheers!
To Steve Lpool:
Steve, nice to hear from you. Thanks for writting.
Interesting, didn't know that story about Malinowski and his wife. Have to talk to my friends and will come back to you.
Dublin DW group was never overpopulated with Paddies, but there were a few. I have met around ten myself. All of them left.
Before leaving the group one of them wrote:
(for the purpose of privacy I'm not going to give his details or in any way indicate who it was)
NCR center - the letter is talking about is an old location of DWC on North Circular Road
----- Original Message -----
From: XXX
To: XXX
Sent: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 04:40:29 +0000
Subject:
Dear Friends,
An old saying in Ireland is let's call a spade a spade and not delude
ourselves into thinking it is something else.
Forgive me for being so honest with you but I have been thinking about the
NCR place and I have to be honest and say that I am not now nor was I ever
comfortable being there. It seems to have very little to do with giving
ordinary people what they need which is real hope and freedom, hope,
friendship, love, peace of mind and a place to be themselves.
(...)
One or two individuals have been running the show from the start and anyone
who doesn't agree with them has been sidelined or has had to leave the
group. And believe me a lot of good people have felt that they have no
option but to leave. I won't go into the names here. The centre in NCR
has completely failed in its mission and is incapable of attracting ordinary
people because of the culture there - the atmosphere is very boring, heavy,
authoritarian, negative and closed-minded. It really feels like a 'cult' and
it certainly has all the characteristics of one. The sooner it shuts down
the better as it is an abomination in terms of buddhist teachings and has
very little if anything to do with the dharma teaching of great karma kagyu
school of Tibet.
(...)
While a cult may seem nice for a short time if you are a lonely person the
teachings say that untimately it is impermanent like everything else and
will fall apart. It is not a true refuge. I am sorry to have to say this but
I hope the NCR centre closes as soon as possible and the people disband for
their own good before they get sucked into this ignorant cult
even more.
(...)
This country has suffered enough from religious authoritarianism in
the past
(...)
karmapa chenno,
XXX
Steve, I will try to find the letter about "rooting people away from the Kagyu family".
And yes, its author is Dublin DWC manager. He was hospitalised in St Brigid's Psychiatric Hospital in Ardee. He was also in Alcoholics Anonymous. Joined the group in March 2007 as far as I know and in December 2007 was approved by Ole as Dublin DWC manager.
I will stay in touch.
All the best lads,
Tony
Re: Ole Nydahl and Diamond Way Buddhism
Posted by:
vdesign
()
Date: September 26, 2010 08:56AM
My best attempt at translating the piece form Gazeta:
Stop building the mosque in Warsaw - posters with this message are hung around the Politechnika subway station in Warsaw. Next to these posters a smiling face of Lama Ole Nydahl, the leader of Buddhists of the Diamond Way (Karma Kagyu), invites to a meditation course "Lama, Yidam, Protectors". The placement of these posters is not accidental.
The picket has been organised by the Future of Europe society, whose chairman is Jan Wojcik, ex-member of the board of the Karma Kagyu Association. Among the supporters of the society are Diamond Way buddhists, All-Poland organisation members and far right element of all description, including anti-Semites. What unites them is Islamophobia.
Ole Nydahl is well known for his racist views. When asked "What would be the greatest problem for you?" he answered (...) "Islam in Europe".
On one of the racist blogs www.gatesofvienna.com, when interviewed by a Danish right-winger Asgen Trier Engberg, he said "From what I can see a good Mulism is one who is guided by the teachings in the book written in Arab desert thirteen centuries ago and does so without any self-reflection and without taking responsibility for his own life. Moreover, this teaching leads to a society full of violence as it has been passed on by people who do not keep their word and do not behave in a way we could call civilised. This is why their teaching is so extremely dangerous".
I have some personal experiences with the members of Karma Kagyu. They are friendly, educated and obliging. For years they helped me with the maintenance of a palm tree at the De Gaulle roundabout. Until they realised that the palm tree is a symbol of presence not only of Buddhists and Jews (viewed as alien [in Poland]) but also of the Muslims.
A few years ago I did an interview with a 10 year old son of one of the Buddhists. When asked "What are you most afraid of?" he answered solemnly "Turks in Europe". Then he said what would happen to Europe when the Muslims take over it: women will be beaten up, they will have to wear veils over their faces and the European culture will disappear. Muslims are dirty and frightening, he added. If we substituted "Jews" for "Muslims" we would have the rhetoric from 1930's.
Well, the All-Poland crowd have won another supporter.
I have been out of Poland for while and have no idea who the All-Poland crowd are - probably some sort of a nationalistic outfit.
So what have we learnt form this opinion piece? Lama Ole's posters were at one location hung next to those advocating against the construction of mosque in Warsaw. The guy heading the no-mosque campaign is ex-DW (did he not belong there?). Some DW members oppose the idea of a mosque in Warsaw. Ole reckons Islam is bad news for Europe. Some DW members helped to water a palm tree in Warsaw for a while but later changed their minds. A 10yo son of Buddhist parent(s) was afraid of Muslims.
Yawn.
Stop building the mosque in Warsaw - posters with this message are hung around the Politechnika subway station in Warsaw. Next to these posters a smiling face of Lama Ole Nydahl, the leader of Buddhists of the Diamond Way (Karma Kagyu), invites to a meditation course "Lama, Yidam, Protectors". The placement of these posters is not accidental.
The picket has been organised by the Future of Europe society, whose chairman is Jan Wojcik, ex-member of the board of the Karma Kagyu Association. Among the supporters of the society are Diamond Way buddhists, All-Poland organisation members and far right element of all description, including anti-Semites. What unites them is Islamophobia.
Ole Nydahl is well known for his racist views. When asked "What would be the greatest problem for you?" he answered (...) "Islam in Europe".
On one of the racist blogs www.gatesofvienna.com, when interviewed by a Danish right-winger Asgen Trier Engberg, he said "From what I can see a good Mulism is one who is guided by the teachings in the book written in Arab desert thirteen centuries ago and does so without any self-reflection and without taking responsibility for his own life. Moreover, this teaching leads to a society full of violence as it has been passed on by people who do not keep their word and do not behave in a way we could call civilised. This is why their teaching is so extremely dangerous".
I have some personal experiences with the members of Karma Kagyu. They are friendly, educated and obliging. For years they helped me with the maintenance of a palm tree at the De Gaulle roundabout. Until they realised that the palm tree is a symbol of presence not only of Buddhists and Jews (viewed as alien [in Poland]) but also of the Muslims.
A few years ago I did an interview with a 10 year old son of one of the Buddhists. When asked "What are you most afraid of?" he answered solemnly "Turks in Europe". Then he said what would happen to Europe when the Muslims take over it: women will be beaten up, they will have to wear veils over their faces and the European culture will disappear. Muslims are dirty and frightening, he added. If we substituted "Jews" for "Muslims" we would have the rhetoric from 1930's.
Well, the All-Poland crowd have won another supporter.
I have been out of Poland for while and have no idea who the All-Poland crowd are - probably some sort of a nationalistic outfit.
So what have we learnt form this opinion piece? Lama Ole's posters were at one location hung next to those advocating against the construction of mosque in Warsaw. The guy heading the no-mosque campaign is ex-DW (did he not belong there?). Some DW members oppose the idea of a mosque in Warsaw. Ole reckons Islam is bad news for Europe. Some DW members helped to water a palm tree in Warsaw for a while but later changed their minds. A 10yo son of Buddhist parent(s) was afraid of Muslims.
Yawn.
Re: Ole Nydahl and Diamond Way Buddhism
Posted by:
Tenzin Peljor
()
Date: September 26, 2010 08:54PM
Quote
Sceptic Watcher
@Tony Dublin
Could you provide a reliable translation of the polish article? Google Translator creates something that is readable, but far from clear.
@Tenzin Peljor
In one of his books, Nydahl writes about the incident, but doesn't go into details about what exactly the letter said, only that Trungpa referred to him as Rudra.
Thank you. In case anybody has the exact text or a scan of the "wanted notice", I would really appreciate to get it.
Re: Ole Nydahl and Diamond Way Buddhism
Posted by:
~*~ k a t e ~*~
()
Date: September 27, 2010 04:34AM
Quote
Tenzin PeljorQuote
Sceptic Watcher
@Tony Dublin
Could you provide a reliable translation of the polish article? Google Translator creates something that is readable, but far from clear.
@Tenzin Peljor
In one of his books, Nydahl writes about the incident, but doesn't go into details about what exactly the letter said, only that Trungpa referred to him as Rudra.
Thank you. In case anybody has the exact text or a scan of the "wanted notice", I would really appreciate to get it.
I would be very interested in this. Thanks.
Re: Ole Nydahl and Diamond Way Buddhism
Posted by:
jah
()
Date: September 28, 2010 02:37AM
Blondie,
What a description! Mr. Ole would be advised to take a course on the six realms of existance described by Tibetan Buddhism. That description suggests somebody playing the role of demi-god, not teacher.
What a description! Mr. Ole would be advised to take a course on the six realms of existance described by Tibetan Buddhism. That description suggests somebody playing the role of demi-god, not teacher.
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