Quote
milarepa
Dear Anika,

Thank you for your letter and your english is perfect. I totally understand this and i think you were clever and lucky enough to get out. I think we are still human so of course does not matter where we belong we can always find good people. Just the question is how long they will be your friend( i hope for long) as after a while the connection would get looser and looser. And they will find it hard to not to talk about ole as he is their God with you or if they will they can get into arguments with you. I had similar experience and tell the truth the friends who i thought they are good friends disappeared after i left the cult. And now i have friends from there but they have given up on dwb.

I was happy when Shamar Rinpoche expressed his opinion but it is a kind of politics. We don't know why he changed his mind why he is not continuing making stronger points against ole's activities. I think a lot of things are hidden and i think ole has a bigger influence on politics then buddhism and of course it is MONEY involved as well.

I think nobody else can do here anything just us the people who do not like the way how is it going people who are writing here. We should all get together and do something about it as it would start to change something. But i have a feeling people are still scared and just want to write.

We should not be scared we should do something but the main importance is not to against buddhism just against the hierarchy within the group and the person who makes people brainwashed instead of giving them a right way to do their meditation and practice.

I am hoping that i would be start and collect some people l who wants to do something and help.

Thank your for your honesty it was really nice to read your letter.

I think it is about time for ex DWB members to expose the truth about what I think is a dangerous organisation. Get in touch with your local newspapers, with you local anti-racist and inter-faith groups etc..Get organised and keep this thread alive as a central database for informations regarding DWB activities.
I think it is a duty.

Get in touch with your local newspapers, with you local anti-racist and inter-faith groups etc..

I think Alchi it is a very naiive idea to go to the local newspaper and to go to any groups. Did they kill anyone or raped or did something really horrible? No, so nobody would be interested in any kind of group activity. And. Why would i go any other "funny" organisations if i can do something by myself? If i dont like something i will organise it i do not need any other groups to get involved. It would be similar case again as you need to fit into a group idea.

I totally disagree with you and trust me would not find a newspaper who would take your comments in. There are other solutions but one person can not do anything.

Any other idea?

Quote
milarepa
Get in touch with your local newspapers, with you local anti-racist and inter-faith groups etc..

I think Alchi it is a very naiive idea to go to the local newspaper and to go to any groups. Did they kill anyone or raped or did something really horrible? No, so nobody would be interested in any kind of group activity. And. Why would i go any other "funny" organisations if i can do something by myself? If i dont like something i will organise it i do not need any other groups to get involved. It would be similar case again as you need to fit into a group idea.

I totally disagree with you and trust me would not find a newspaper who would take your comments in. There are other solutions but one person can not do anything.

Any other idea?

Hi Milarepa,

It's good to do things on your own but sometimes you need some support. Trust me you will find people interested in your story and help you to expose the truth about DWB, including newspapers. I know I did.
I can't see anything "funny" about charity organisation against racism or promoting interfaith relationships...They are not cults, just associations of citizens with concerns!

Let me know about the other solutions you are thinking about.

hi,

I have written already about it and was no answer. It seems to me people who left the cult still scared and do not want to open up.

I understand about the organisations but i think here in england everything is pc and so controlled that you will end up in the same situation.

If you think that any newspaper would buy this news i am happy to help but i think it would be a very difficult task to achieve it. How did you think what shall we do? As he did not do any illegal or any bad what would you say to any riporter?

The problem here I think is that no ex-DWB member has brought criminal proceedings against DWB. At least not to my knowledge. Have DWB acted in a criminal way? I'm not sure if they have? What we have on this forum are the accounts of individuals who have felt threatened by the cultish behaviour or simply find the views of Ole Nydahl and some of his followers disturbing. I refer to the sweeping racist comments made about people of colour and of Muslims. There are also accounts from others who have concerns about following a man who cannot keep his carnal urges in check, especially with women young enough to be his grand-daughter.

So I fear approaching the media would have little effect. At least until DWB really do something that is clearly illegal. As for personal protests..... I think this might just make those who oppose DWB and Nydahl look like fanatics. Also it is inevitable that we who oppose DWB have a personal agenda but that we temper this so that it doesn't cloud our judgement. We must always remain critical of our own ideas as well as the ideas of those we oppose. It can never hurt to check that your motivation is still to benefit people rather than hurt them.

I think that by posting our experiences here and on other sites that voice concerns over Nydahl and DWB we are "doing our bit". I know several people who have come across this forum and have moved away from DWB and others who read the posts here and, even though doubts persist, still attend DWB centres. It is not our role to dictate what people should do. What we can do is post the facts and allow others to make an informed choice.

Steve

Quote
SteveLpool
The problem here I think is that no ex-DWB member has brought criminal proceedings against DWB. At least not to my knowledge. Have DWB acted in a criminal way? I'm not sure if they have? What we have on this forum are the accounts of individuals who have felt threatened by the cultish behaviour or simply find the views of Ole Nydahl and some of his followers disturbing. I refer to the sweeping racist comments made about people of colour and of Muslims. There are also accounts from others who have concerns about following a man who cannot keep his carnal urges in check, especially with women young enough to be his grand-daughter.

So I fear approaching the media would have little effect. At least until DWB really do something that is clearly illegal. As for personal protests..... I think this might just make those who oppose DWB and Nydahl look like fanatics. Also it is inevitable that we who oppose DWB have a personal agenda but that we temper this so that it doesn't cloud our judgement. We must always remain critical of our own ideas as well as the ideas of those we oppose. It can never hurt to check that your motivation is still to benefit people rather than hurt them.

I think that by posting our experiences here and on other sites that voice concerns over Nydahl and DWB we are "doing our bit". I know several people who have come across this forum and have moved away from DWB and others who read the posts here and, even though doubts persist, still attend DWB centres. It is not our role to dictate what people should do. What we can do is post the facts and allow others to make an informed choice.

Steve

Hi Steve,

Good post, the only problem with the internet and forums like this one is the lack of hard facts unfortunately, though there are enough anecdotal evidences in this thread to make people think twice about joining DWB and that is a good start, but maybe there are some other legal and effective ways to inform people of the controversy regarding DWB?

"maybe there are some other legal and effective ways to inform people of the controversy regarding DWB?"

That would be control over control again. And how Steve said we need to think what is our motivation. My idea was to make a little film(as now they are making their own documentary about ole in 60 minutes) and oppose the other side of the DWB. Having people who wanted to tell their own different experiences so in this case let the audience judge.
Obviously try to show both side as well and not just the negativity. In this case we are doing something but not in the way how the newspaper article would make a damage.
As we ned to think of Karmapa as well because he is connected to this as well.

Dear Friends,

It took me long before I decided to eventually write to this forum. Actually I took me a couple of years. I didn't want to take part in sth which might have been too one-sided. However, upon reflection, I can see that this blog is quite reasonably run.

I would like to post some links and some e-mails I have received, which portray seemingly unrelated events. Still if we look closer a pattern reveals. The pattern which pictures a certain diamondway group dynamics that I think is important to talk about.

Here we go.

At first:

An article from a Polish press. An artist Joanna Rajkowska depicts Warsaw diamondway buddhists protesting hand by hand with local Neo-Nazi groups against construction of a mosque in Warsaw.
[warszawa.gazeta.pl]

At second:
Below - the e-mail sent by diamondway buddhists from Dublin which depicts acts of sectarian violence which took place in the diamondway buddhist centre in Dublin.

Facts:
There is only one Irish person in Dublin diamondway buddhist group. The rest of members are from Central and Eastern Europe. All Irish apart from one left the group.
Acts of sectarian aggression that the e-mail is talking about were not directed against other religious groups. They were directed against diamondway Sangha own members.

Privately I would like to post a question about British teacher Steven James' involvement in those events.


Tue, August 25, 2009 11:00:24 PM
Fwd: The Dublin Controversy
From: Diamondway Ireland [...]
Add to Contacts
To: tony [...]
________________________________________

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Diamondway Ireland [...]
Date: Sat, Jun 27, 2009 at 7:19 PM
Subject: The Dublin Controversy
[...]

The Dublin Controversy

"(...) We Need Other People In Order To Create
The Circumstances For The Learning That We're Here To Generate
Situations That Bring Up Our Deepest Fears
So We Can Work To Release Them Until They're Cleared
Therefore, It Only Makes Sense
To Thank Our Enemies Despite Their Intent (...)"
"Bodhisattva Vow" - Beastie Boys

"The most serious obstacle in a clear recognition of Tulku is disharmony between teacher and his students. Nothing can be done in such cases and circumstances of Master's rebirth are unpredictable."
HH Kakhyab Dorje XV Karmapa

Dear Dharma Friends,

The case we want to talk about gets to the core of human values.

When Lama makes a mistake it has tragical, many level consequences on people who have trusted him.

We would like to describe situation of human rights abuse that we have been facing in The Irish Sangha for the last couple of years.

We believe that religion is the most precious value of human existence and efforts aimed to deprive people of possibility to practice their religion are one of the most serious crimes against human rights.

In 2006 a narrow a group people within the international Dublin Sangha decided to gain an exclusive influence over a Sangha management. One of the methods to obtain it was an exclusion of people who have run Sangha previously.

In 2007 series of meetings were organized with a purpose of official exclusions of Sangha members. Those meetings were nothing else but manhunt and those of us who ever wondered how fascism could have been possible in history, had now an opportunity to witness events which resembled nothing else but scenes we watched in movies about origins of fascism. Organisers of those meetings are not accountable to anybody. Nothing has ever traumatised and damaged the Sangha more than that, and so far Sangha has not recovered.

In November 2007 an e-mail has been sent to Sangha members with a threat of being "rooted away from the Kagyu family". This policy has been and still is consequently put into practice. People who have been excluded are denied access to the Centre and are not allowed either to meditate with others or to participate in a community life. The threat of exclusion from the community has proven to be an effective tool of social terror.

The author of the above mentioned letter, while joining the Sangha in 2007 was still in a psychiatric treatment and had been previously hospitalised in a psychiatric ward. In December 2007 he was officially legitimized by Lama Ole as a person in charge of Dublin Diamondway Centre.

It's worth mentioning that Lama's decision to approve the current management has been contrary to last decisions of Hannah’s regarding Ireland she made before her death.

Since 2007 things haven't changed. Sangha management tools are strictly monopolised and a management style is compassionless.

We want to have a buddhist centre based on basic simple human values, where people have a right to come and practice freely.

We would like to appeal to Lama Ole to suspend teaching bodhisattva vow until the situation in Ireland is brought to a satisfactory conclusion. As he has legitimized the management which excludes people from the possibility of practice in Dublin Diamondway Centre, we believe he is in a breach of the bodhisattva vow.

This is now the Human Rights issue. Should Lama choose to ignore the problem, we will ask you to pass this letter to Human Rights Organisation in your country, to your local governments and to media. Please keep this as well as any other related correspondence that you may receive on record, as it may be needed for a future reference.

This campaign will not stop until effective changes are made. Below please find selection of Human Rights and Religion related web pages.

[www.hreoc.gov.au]
"(...)International human rights law also protects people against the promotion of religious hatred which amounts to incitement of discrimination, hostility or violence (ICCPR, article 20)(...)"

[www.pdhre.org]

[en.wikipedia.org]

[books.google.ie]

[books.google.ie]

With our best wishes for a happy growth of your buddhist communities,

Karma Kagyu Buddhists in Ireland



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/23/2010 12:41AM by rrmoderator.

Point three

Here is a response to Dublin diamondway buddhists’ letter given, by Polish diamondway buddhist teacher Mira Boboli, on behalf of Warsaw diamondway center. Mira gave her response it seems voluntarily, because as it shows the letter wasn’t originally sent to her.

Tue, July 6, 2010 9:41:18 PM
Fwd: Dublin confusion
From: Diamondway Ireland [...]
Add to Contacts
To: tony [...]
________________________________________
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Mira Boboli [...]
Date: Sat, Jul 4, 2009 at 8:48 AM
Subject: Dublin confusion
[...]

It seems that you are quite confused. Take a cold shower and start to think.

Greetings,
Warsaw Center


From: Diamondway Ireland <diamondway.ireland@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, Jun 27, 2009 at 9:06 PM
Subject: The Dublin Controversy
[...]


The Dublin Controversy



"(...) We Need Other People In Order To Create
The Circumstances For The Learning That We're Here To Generate
Situations That Bring Up Our Deepest Fears
So We Can Work To Release Them Until They're Cleared
Therefore, It Only Makes Sense
To Thank Our Enemies Despite Their Intent (...)"
"Bodhisattva Vow" - Beastie Boys

"The most serious obstacle in a clear recognition of Tulku is disharmony between teacher and his students. Nothing can be done in such cases and circumstances of Master's rebirth are unpredictable."
HH Kakhyab Dorje XV Karmapa

Dear Dharma Friends,

The case we want to talk about gets to the core of human values.

When Lama makes a mistake it has tragical, many level consequences on people who have trusted him.

We would like to describe situation of human rights abuse that we have been facing in The Irish Sangha for the last couple of years.

We believe that religion is the most precious value of human existence and efforts aimed to deprive people of possibility to practice their religion are one of the most serious crimes against human rights.

In 2006 a narrow a group people within the international Dublin Sangha decided to gain an exclusive influence over a Sangha management. One of the methods to obtain it was an exclusion of people who have run Sangha previously.

In 2007 series of meetings were organized with a purpose of official exclusions of Sangha members. Those meetings were nothing else but manhunt and those of us who ever wondered how fascism could have been possible in history, had now an opportunity to witness events which resembled nothing else but scenes we watched in movies about origins of fascism. Organisers of those meetings are not accountable to anybody. Nothing has ever traumatised and damaged the Sangha more than that, and so far Sangha has not recovered.

In November 2007 an e-mail has been sent to Sangha members with a threat of being "rooted away from the Kagyu family". This policy has been and still is consequently put into practice. People who have been excluded are denied access to the Centre and are not allowed either to meditate with others or to participate in a community life. The threat of exclusion from the community has proven to be an effective tool of social terror.

The author of the above mentioned letter, while joining the Sangha in 2007 was still in a psychiatric treatment and had been previously hospitalised in a psychiatric ward. In December 2007 he was officially legitimized by Lama Ole as a person in charge of Dublin Diamondway Centre.

It's worth mentioning that Lama's decision to approve the current management has been contrary to last decisions of Hannah’s regarding Ireland she made before her death.

Since 2007 things haven't changed. Sangha management tools are strictly monopolised and a management style is compassionless.

We want to have a buddhist centre based on basic simple human values, where people have a right to come and practice freely.

We would like to appeal to Lama Ole to suspend teaching bodhisattva vow until the situation in Ireland is brought to a satisfactory conclusion. As he has legitimized the management which excludes people from the possibility of practice in Dublin Diamondway Centre, we believe he is in a breach of the bodhisattva vow.

This is now the Human Rights issue. Should Lama choose to ignore the problem, we will ask you to pass this letter to Human Rights Organisation in your country, to your local governments and to media. Please keep this as well as any other related correspondence that you may receive on record, as it may be needed for a future reference.

This campaign will not stop until effective changes are made. Below please find selection of Human Rights and Religion related web pages.

[www.hreoc.gov.au]
"(...)International human rights law also protects people against the promotion of religious hatred which amounts to incitement of discrimination, hostility or violence (ICCPR, article 20)(...)"

[www.pdhre.org]

[en.wikipedia.org]

[books.google.ie]

[books.google.ie]

With our best wishes for a happy growth of your buddhist communities,

Karma Kagyu Buddhists in Ireland



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/23/2010 04:36AM by rrmoderator.