!Also the person may become identified with the physio-kundalini process itself in a negative, egotistical way, believing he or she has been divinely chosen for some great mission, perhaps as a saviour."

Yes of course, like Nydahl as a Dharma-protector, Karmapa as the self-opinionated incarnation of an other spiritual leader, Sharmapa as well and all the other who are not themselves but reborn for great missions as Boddhisattvas ... , should I go on?

Sueman; I think in your comments that you are underestimating the abilities of hypnosis, or at least of hypnosis coupled with other linguistic etc techniques.If you look at some of the videos of Derren Brown for example, he has no problem convincing people to act against their own self interest, letting him keep their wallet or phone when he asks for it, in one example.
Re your statement that people cannot be hypnotised to do something totally against their will; the ability to convince someone that what you want them to do is what they want to do also; is the essence of any good con.

Haivng said this, I also have never fully understood what Karam-mudra has described.Is she talking about psychological reactions to the meditation techniques that effected her sleep and gave her weird dreams, or is she talking about an actual physical sexual relationship?
I haven't figured that out,and don't really understand yet.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/01/2013 01:32PM by yasmin.

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yasmin
Sueman; I think in your comments that you are underestimating the abilities of hypnosis, or at least of hypnosis coupled with other linguistic etc techniques.If you look at some of the videos of Derren Brown for example, he has no problem convincing people to act against their own self interest, letting him keep their wallet or phone when he asks for it, in one example.
Re your statement that people cannot be hypnotised to do something totally against their will; the ability to convince someone that what you want them to do is what they want to do also; is the essence of any good con.

Haivng said this, I also have never fully understood what Karam-mudra has described.Is she talking about psychological reactions to the meditation techniques that effected her sleep and gave her weird dreams, or is she talking about an actual physical sexual relationship?
I haven't figured that out,and don't really understand yet.

Stage hypnotists choose people who are suceptible to those suggestions, which is usually a small percentage of the general population (like 2%). Makes me wonder if Nydahl does something similar, targeting certain people, with the added fact that any testimony against him can be denied on the basis that the person was somehow "unstable" to begin with. Or maybe he just attracts a certain sort of person?

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suenam
Page 58...Our results support the view that this force is positive and creative...

Creative force suenam doesn't mean that someone sits, sings songs and paints pictures. Creative force means that someone has a courage and a power to change a culture. And that's what karam-mudra does.

The purpose of this blog is to demonstrate what happens in diamond way and not to criticize karam-mudra. I don't know why the moderator doesn't react.

Suenam and karam-mudra:

Please cease engaging in theological debates on this thread.

This thread is only for discussion specifically about Ole Nydahl and Diamond Way.

If you wish to discuss another topic go to that thread as previously linked or start another thread.

Last warning.

[diamondwaytruths.blogspot.co.uk]

suenam:

The percentage of people suseptable to hypnosis is much higher than 2%.

Both Self-hypnosis and hypnosis often play a pivotal role in cults that encourage trance induction through some form of practice or exercise.

This would seem to apply to Diamond Way.

As pointed out by Yasmin people are very suggestable in this altered state of consciousness and can be manipulated.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/02/2013 08:27PM by rrmoderator.

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rrmoderator
suenam:

The percentage of people suseptable to hypnosis is much higher than 2%.

Both Self-hypnosis and hypnosis often play a pivotal role in cults that encourage trance induction through some form of practice or exercise.

This would seem to apply to Diamond Way.

As pointed out by Yasmin people are very suggestable in this altered state of consciousness and can be manipulated.

2% was just the figure for people that can be hypnotized to act like chickens, Derren Brown chooses his marks very carefully.


Nydahl's use of hypnotic language is not very skilful, you would be exposed to more effective use during any television commercial break, and out of the many people posting here, only one reports anything like an experience of hypnotic mind-control.

Reading the link karam-mudra posted, the Open Letter from Joanne to Sogyal, published on Dialogue Ireland, [dialogueireland.wordpress.com] If I understood correctly, it seems that she experienced something very similar, but in her case she puts it down to her own mind state rather than blaming Sogyal. Her issue seems to be more that she received no support or understanding.

@moderator


"As pointed out by Yasmin people are very suggestable in this altered state of consciousness and can be manipulated."

The ability to be manipulated is only one side of the altered state of mind which we call trance, and hereafter I talk about a deep somnambulistic trance which I experienced.

Researcher from an university in Finland put the question to themselves if a multiple personality could be artificially created. Please don´t ask for an ethical standard here.

They found 470 people who wanted to be engaged in the trial. Thereof only 17 percent were able to reach the deep trance which was demanded. After the trance induction the experimental person was given the order to write and she/he wrote in an automatic manner. When the person was ask to read the text, she or he actually couldn´t unless the trance was not lifted. So a person in that kind of trance is not awake to the result or sense of her/his behavier, for example writing. It could have been speaking or anything else. A person in trance switches between different "personalities" and these are not able to communicate with each other, a characteristic of a multiple personality.

They also found out that in this state of mind an autonomous personality part arrised as well as a regression of age, automatic behavier and positive and negative hallucinations, which all came out of the person´s unconsciousness.

The results of the research may be a basic to understand the state of mind of the so called psychics as well as the trance psychics of which for example the Dalai Lama takes advantage of.

I have been one for Nydahl and others. It is definable in its entirety.

In other cases where there are accusations of abuse such as with Kalu and Sogyal (who were both seen as being far more accomplished than Nydahl), the accusations have been about very real and quite mundane uses of coercion, threats, peer pressure, etc. which is exactly the same thing that everyone else on here has written about in regard to Nydhal.

So if someone claims that somehow Nydahl got "inside their head" then it would seem obvious that all these blatant techniques for manipulation were at work here. I understand it might be painful to admit that all the warning signs were missed and that they were duped by a con artist, this does not therefore mean that the con artist is some master magician and that vajrayana is the height of the black arts used to seduce women and feed off their sexual energy.

It seems to me that one way to pull Nydahl's teeth is to debunk these myths and show them for what they really are. I don’t mean to dismiss karam-mudra's experience at all, in fact it seems to me even more damning to DWB to expose these abuses and de-mystify just how they work.