Hello everyone.

I'm new to these forums and posted yesterday into what I hoped would be this Ole Nydahl forum but it appears to have appeared in a general forum and I hope the community shan't mind if I repost here in a lttle more detail.

It concerns my travails in getting an article entitled 'Buddhist sex abuse cases' onto the Wikipedia. I supplied one early September which included an entry for Ole Nydahl. The entry was deleted several times and restored by me with requests on the talk page to discuss the issue which were never taken up. The article was then deleted by an administrator without an opportunity to defend the article.

You can view the original article here on my personal website at [www.gutclean.com]. The entry for Ole Nydhal ran as follows:

"Ole Nydahl is the founder of Diamond Way Buddhism. At age 68 he acknowledged having sex with his students but said "There’s no teacher-student relationship involved in that, they’re Diamond Way Buddhists, but they’re not my students in that moment. They’re equal partners". [lacrossetribune.com] In a reply to a letter by Shamar Rinpoche criticising Nydahl's emphasis that the "bliss of sex is the experience of mind" [www.tilogaard.dk] Nydahl said that he had never taught anything that the 16th Karmapa had not asked him to pass on and adds in a postscript "P.S. Any woman worldwide who has received sexual Tantra teachings from me will upon confirmation receive $1000" [forum.culteducation.com].

I spent some time briefly with Ole Nydahl back in the late 1970s. I rather liked and respected him at the time but it's plain that his Diamond Way Buddhism organisation he went on to found has many serious issues which need to be addressed and require monitoring. I edited Nydahl's Wikipedia entry recently. Regarding his academic credential he has no degree of any sort from Copenhagen university as he claims. The 'examen philosophicum' he mentions as passing with the highest academic grades is merely a foundation course that is required completion before entering on undergraduate studies. The Ph.D. is a fantasy, yet he twice appeared as subject on the popular American TV intellectual program 'Thinking Allowed' introduced as possessing a Ph.D. and addressed as Dr. Nydahl. Those of us who knew him back in the '70s would have laughed out loud at the idea of Ole having a doctorate. He was rather naive, in an admittedly good natured way but he was nevertheless a natural-born idiot of that rather loud and penetrating sort familiar to us all. It was his wife Hannah who was the intellectual of the two, the translator and a restraining influence on his excesses, but she's gone now. Even at that time he was fascinated by the so-called 'po-wa', a tantric meditation practice which was supposed to result in a hole appearing in your head so that a transference of consciouness could be facilitated, whose 'endowment' (i.e. the right to practice it) I gather has become a feature of the esoteric teachings of the Diamond Way. I used to joke that Ole had the biggest hole in the head of all of us present at the time and it was all entirely wasted because he had absolutely nothing inside there to transfer ....

Even then I remember some resentment, even amongst the Tibetans, at the way Ole monopolised the Karmapa, the spiritual head of the Kagyu monastic order, whom he lionised and was essentially responsible for introducing to the West. Since then of course Nydahl has been a significant player in the current split in that order regarding the rightful heir to the Karmapa title.

I don't doubt that my Wikipedia article was nobbled by a Nydahl sympathiser. Any readers, perhaps a wiki adminsitrator themself, who cares to champion it are welcome. You are free to use the text as you like without condition but for myself I must now withdraw from the fray, other concerns pressing.

But I will look back into this forum from time to time.

Thanks for posting, Rinpoche. An interesting addition.

Could anybody help me with finding the statutes of the Diamondway organization?

Thanks

The document specifying the basic organisational and control structure of Diamond Way(the statutes?) was linked to here:

[forum.culteducation.com]

and very interesting reading it made too. Nydahl was the primary of three directors and could overrule all decisions and the others directors, if my memory serves correctly. Ownership of all holdings was also under his control, again from memory. Unfortunately that link was broken very shortly after it was published here. As you can see, other links to non-flattering blogs were also promptly taken down.

Perhaps the location on the website where the document is stored was changed, but it is actually still available here.

In case the link changes again, it can also be found here.

Thanks for that, Sceptic Watcher.

I got some interesting information from a source. As some people know this december the Karma Kagyu lineage is going to be celebrating its 900 years of existence... and guess what?... Diamond Way Buddhism is not invited to the celebrations.... lol apparently the issues between Lama Ole , Shamarpa and Karmapa continue to grow...

Hello all,

This is my first post.

With the topics I have direct experience with after living in the DW centers for three years, and being a student of Oles since1995, I agree with about 50% of what I have read.

The other 50% I can say is wildly inaccurate or misunderstood.

I left DW almost 8 years ago after my sister died. How I was related to and how the teachings, up till then, readied me for such an experience was an eye opener for sure. I've spent the last 8 years "being my own guiding light", to quote the Buddhas last sentiment, in my spiritual process. These 8 years have been a period of growing up and checking what I learned against real life and other modalities as well as picking up the pieces. Even now I am still wrangling heavily with my "spiritual" crisis and the fall out. Effectively my life minimally functional at this point and just now making a turn for the better. Maybe thats why I have the emotional sobriety to talk about it in this manner now. Maybe also for some support or comrodery in this scary time of fully coming out of this hole and confronting the issue head on.

With this hard won insight to his teachings as well as years of first hand experience with the centers I'd like to be a voice of clarity with regard to some of the contention with Ole and DW. There are many things I can't speak on as I was not there, or simply don't know about them. However, of the things I do know I would like to give my insight. I would also like to first hand verify some of claims on here.

I've had some serious let downs with DW and some of the behavior in the centers has been down right nuts. At the same time the teachings and life changing experiences practicing with Ole have been epic, truly epic. I'm certainly no longer a member of DW, I do think it is a broken organization. My goal however is to spread truth and let the chips fall where they may as a true "Buddhist". I do believe that most of the people in that organization are clear headed and solid folks attempting to deal with the same issues you are talking about here while maintaining a practice. Isn't always a few nut ruining something for the rest of us in any situation?

As I find the time in the coming weeks I want to address some of the issues I see needing some insight to clear up as well as verifying some of the worst traits of DW from my perspective Until then if anyone has any question for me directly please feel free to ask specifics.

Very Truly,
Ubercorey

hi Ubercorey.

I look forward to hearing the account of your time with DWB. I just wanted to comment on a point you make.

At the same time the teachings and life changing experiences practicing with Ole have been epic, truly epic.

I look back at my time practicing with DWB and am aware of some profound changes that have taken place within me. I'm not sure though that they are down to the wisdom and insight of Ole Nydahl? Certainly the doubts I have about him, his organization and some of it's members have played a significant part in what I consider to be "my development". But if I carefully assess how these changes took place I have to say that they were mostly down to my own critical assessment of the organization and the teachings.

I spent many hour listening to travelling teachers and to Ole himself and if I'm honest I learned very little about Buddhism. Most of my development came from reading the great Kagyu master and attending teachings by Karmapa and Shamarpa.

So I would be very interested to hear how Ole shapes up as a dharma teacher in you experience. It's just that I struggle to find anything of lasting value in his teachings.

Welcome to the forum.

Best wishes.

Steve

PS I recieved and e-mail from DWB's Virtual Sangha network this week telling me that unless I changed my profile name I would be banned from using the service. No great loss as I forgot I was even subscribed. My user name was "mrstevehimself". I'm a man so the title of mr is appropriate. My name actually is Steve and they last time I checked I was the person I claimed to be himself. Also it clearly stated on my profile that I attended the Liverpool centre.

I checked the posts on the site and saw a thread from a member who was saddened to see that there was a site where people were claiming DWB was a cult (most likely this forum). So I added a post to the thread which was deleted within an hour and I was immediately banned from the service. :-)

So if there are any DWB members who wish to know what the deleted post from "mrstevehimself" said I paste it below.

Hello. I return to the virtual sangha as the administrator took exception to my user name "mrstevehimself". I only return to delete my "friends" and close the account. My name is Steve, the title of Mr is therefore appropriate and I am who I claim to be so "himself" isn't too misleading.... I attended the Liverpool Centre for almost 7 years. So now you know who I am and you can verify these details with the leaders of the Liverpool Centre if you doubt my honesty.

I left Diamond Way after P**** M********* suggested I take my practice elsewhere as I refuse to accept Ole as my root lama. I was told that this is a vital condition for attending a DWB centre as these are the centre of Ole Nydahl. I was a little surprised to be "shown the door" as I had contributed a reasonable amount of time and money to support what I thought was a centre supporting the work of the 16th and 17th Karmapa's. I regard Karmapa and Shamarpa as my main teachers. As the centre had two large photographs of The 16th and 17th Karmapa over the alter I didn't think there was a problem with my attending the centre if I held Karmapa as my root lama. It appears I was mistaken.

I post my experiences on the Cult Education Forum under the name of SteveLpool (I have nothing to hide). If you are interested in my experiences during my time with DWB feel free to check out my posts.

[forum.culteducation.com]

So before I leave this forum I will add something to this debate.

I sat and spoke with many people over the seven years I was with DWB. I met many good people with a genuine interest in Dharma. Alarmingly I met many more who I consider as harbouring extreme right wing, racist views!!

As I have posted on the Cult Education Forum I do not regard Ole as the main problem within DWB (although as it's founder he must bear the responsibility for the comments and actions of it's members). Many of Ole's comments regarding Islam are based on fact. Much of what I have heard him say has been moderate and has warned against Islamic ideas eroding Western values. To a reasonable extent I agree with his comments. Some but not all.

I think a cult of personality has been built up around Ole. I'm not sure he has wanted this to happen and I doubt he has much of an idea of what goes on in his centres? I've seen the happy smiling faces when he's in town. In my experience this was often a facade so it is no wonder he thinks all is well in the DWB community.

So why do I think DWB is a personality cult?

1. I see people mimicking Ole's lifestyle and look. Whilst not altogether an unhealthy state of affairs it suggests a fanatical devotion to the leader. History has several warnings for us with regards to this getting out of hand.

2. In Liverpool the contents of the library where carefully censored by the leaders of the group. It was suggested that this was to avoid students being confused by the differences between the different schools. I agree with this to some extent but I felt the control of reading materials was excessive.

3. I never really witnessed anyone being "abused" in the centre but I did talk to several women who were left in tears after being screamed at by one of the leaders (it might be nice for them to share their experiences here? Or are they too afraid?). I was also called by one male member who was very shaken after being shouted down by the same leader because the "voluntary work" he did for the centre wasn't good enough. Not very Buddhist in my opinion (but you might justify this by saying it is what the persons karma called for at that time).

4. My critical comments about Ole and DWB were dismissed and it was suggested I "wasn't developed enough" to understand and that I had "ego" problems. As a result I felt I was unduly pressured into following the party line. I prefer to remain critical.

A couple of years ago Ole made comments at a London teaching that alarmed me. While some of his (white) students where queuing to have babies blessed by him (a practice I oppose) he commented over the microphone something along these lines, "It's good that you people are having babies otherwise our cities would start to look like Africa". Now while I might not agree with some of the cultural aspects of some of the African states his comment was clearly about people of colour, "...look like Africa". Colour has nothing to do with culture and it struck me that Ole was suggesting we have too many "black" people here in the West. You might interpret this differently but I still fail to see it's relevence at the end of a Dharma talk?

A couple of years earlier I was taking a travelling teacher to the train station in Liverpool who suggested that we should be "blowing Mosques up with Muslims inside". Sometime later myself and another friend were taking a different travelling teacher to an event in London. Whilst travelling through Brixton she said "look at all these black people. They serve no useful purpose in our societies". I can only assume that she thinks they were of more use when we used them for slave labour?

I was interested to see Daffyd Morris diagnose the person who is responsible for the critical post which led to this thread as being ill. I can assume you will also make wishes for my speedy "recovery" too?

To Valentin. DWB is a hierarchical structure. Are you claiming that anyone can make policy changing decisions? Surely there is a committee who make these decisions? Surley they have overall control?

With regard to Ole's polygamous relations I sometimes worry that he has a unhealthy influence on his young students. Many of his dalliances are with women young enough to be his daughters daughter!!! Do you really think they would be interested in him if he was just another elderly man? It's a bit like a rock stars groupies. I watched him tongue kissing a woman in her early twenties at a party in Newcastle. The startled faces of those who witnessed this suggested evidence that this was not something they approved of. I've heard many people say "well it's OK. Hannah knew and if the young lady in question isn't being forced to have relations with him then what's the problem?" If it was your girlfriend he was having sex with would you be happy?

So here are just a few of the things that disturbed me about DWB. There have been others. People using the water tent as a toilet in Karma Guen. Nice touch!! Stealing mobile phones and breaking into the canteen and stealing wine. Speak to the organisers to verify these stories. The charming Russian students who suggested that an elderly lady being crushed in the queue should be thrown out (I guess you just have my word for this one).

So there you have it. I wish I'd known I wasn't Diamond Way enough before I'd payed 6-7 years of membership and surrendered long hours increasing the value of the leaders house in Liverpool. I wish those of you who have a genuine wish to develop and benefit others much success and happiness. To the rest of you who find a safe place to air your racist views......... well let me paraphrase Daffyd...... "get well soon".

Steve

Dear All,

Thank you very much for your feedback.

I think it is worth mentioning that following the events I wrote previously about and ongoing exclusions of Diamondway community members from Dublin Diamondway Centre, Brophy Solicitors of Dublin (http://www.brophysolicitors.ie/ ) have sent three letters to Lama Ole Nydahl. The first letter HUMAN RIGHTS - RELIGIOUS FREEDOM was sent in August 2009. None of those letters was responded to so far.

Tony