Hello everyone,
I did post a few months ago about Buddhist weddings being conducted by ON during one of his many annual phowa's last year, there were, for a short time, a lot of images from these weddings on flickr but they did not stay there long. 5 or 6 couples took part in these weddings and from the images I saw the main attraction seemed to be being wedded by ON, a clear sign of adoration, obsession and, dare I say attachment with a figure head. I still find myself unwittingly connected to the local DW center here in the Baltic and see the repetition of lectures (same old subjects) and a clear hierachy, center leader gets to live next to 'Gompa', lower down the rank you live next door and pay your rent and along the lines of what milarepa comments on I can confirm, if you are considered weird, not normal, you are not welcome and be you male or female are shown the door to the street no matter your predicamnet.

Hi Dariusb.

I haven't named the people who ran the Liverpool centre because, regardless of how I feel about them and their involvement in DWB, I think they are entitled to their anonymity. I have only made reference to members names in posts where others on this forum have already made them known. I can assure you I wasn't keeping their identities hidden because I felt I was under pressure.

In answer to your other question, I contacted The Bodhi Path and requested some guidance and stated which group I had come from. The response I got hinted that Rinpoche might suggest I restart my Ngondro. I stress that this was not advice directly from Rinpoche, but from one of the contacts at The Bodhi Path. It was my intention to travel and try and speak to Rinpoche directly about my experiences, but the circumstances regarding my being asked to move out of the Liverpool centre resulted in me effectively being homless within a couple of months and living in a hostel so I was unable to travel to speak with him.

The impression I had was that my 7-8 years of practice with DWB would be regarded as invalid, and more to the point that the impressions recieved from my time with them would need 'purifying'. This, for me, was a little disheartening and I now practice breathing meditation and have no real affiliation to a group or school. Although, I find myself deeply inspired by Shamarpa's texts and still regard him as my root Lama, but I haven't been in a position to travel to any of his teachings.

I spoke with a couple of other people within DWB who are considered as having 'rank' when I left, and they commented that my situation within the Liverpool group was becoming a 'worrying trend'. Meaning that several people who had decided to move into the centre found the behaviour of Malinowski so distressing that they were left little choice but to move out. Stories about people being reduced to tears are in some of my earlier posts.

The people I approached said they would raise the issues of the Liverpool centre with Nydahl. I have no idea if thet did? I think it would be pointless anyway as Nydahl himself once shouted across a crowded bar that Malinowski was 'lama material'. So any criticism of him would be explained away as my own 'sickness'.

So, Dariusb, what's your story. What brings you to the forum? Are you pro-Nydahl? Or do your experiences have a similar theme to others on the forum?

Steve

In order to comment on Dublin diamondway situation I would like to quote a fragment of Zen teacher Diane Hamilton's essay "Simply Uncool":

"Let’s face it, some bad decisions, particularly by teachers, can be very destructive to the community of people who constitute the practice and who have given a tremendous amount of their good will, time, attention, and money into sustaining themselves as a group that desires to awaken together. When scandals break, people scatter, and value is lost. Once shared aspirations shrink into doubt, overwrought cynicism, and an unwillingness to risk participating again. In short, scandals destroy sangha.
(...)
Greed. Why should you strive not to be greedy? Because greed is uncool. People get pissed when you take what is not yours, and see you grabbing for more than your fair share. They may be patient for awhile, but inevitably, they will start a revolution ending up in an overthrow.
(...)
Is turning a blind eye to breaches in the community because they threaten my feelings of being protected and belonging to the group cool? Unlikely."

Nydahl you have let us down in Dublin. Utterly.

Hi Chaill.

Did you contact Nydahl about the situation in Dublin? What was his response if any? Failing that, did you speak to Steve James, Daffyd Morris or any of the other 'ranked' members in the UK? I recollect that Peter Malinowski was involved in discussions with the Dublin group. What did he or any of the others have to say?

I only have a vague idea regarding the Dublin situation. Am I right in thinking that the group was joined by several Polish members who then saw fit to eject some of the founders from the group? Or do I have the story completely wrong?

Diane Hamiltons words are quite poignant. Sadly when you feel that Buddhist ideas are being perverted in order to justify bad behaviour it is difficult to have any trust in the original teachings. Especially when the bad behaviour is carried out by people with many years of 'meditation' experience and you'd like to think of them as an example of what can be achieved. Unfortunately on too many occasions I saw that this was far from the truth.

All the best.

Steve

Hello everyone,
Thanks for your answer Stevelpool, I hope you are ok now and you do not have to live in a hostel.
I had been involved with DW for around three years. In the beginning it was a Buddhist group which i always was looking for , most of the people were young, similar back ground like me and the way Ole sold Buddhism it was very acceptable; basically meditate more look after your own people, participate in the centre activities and so on.
I always questioned Ole's attitude towards Islam and what it has to do with Buddhism but slowly my views start changing and i accepted that he knows better, he is the boss.
Few times situations came up when people from DW clearly expressed racist views and that it was confusing me ,how it is possible that Buddha’s teaching clearly state that all sentient beings have Buddha nature and hatred is one of worst disturbing emotions but those people still expressing racist views.
I can not say that all the people are like that, some of them are really bright and intelligent.
Thanks to my girlfriend i am not longer with DW, she is much braver than me, she made them fill uncomfortable by asking questions and putting them in situations where they had to deal with her and that was then i start to realise that DW was not what it seemed, worst was when people tried to divide us which really shock me it went against my understanding of buddhism.
I am still not too sure how much of buddhism is in there, on one hand, be cause of Ole i became more interested in buddha's teachings but on other hand it is a bit pick'n'mix; he talks about compation but you can not see much compation in his students, somehow it felt like you are with us or against us ,not entirely but something like that.
Diamond way is very peculiar organisation, when Ole goes to the Pure land people will start to fight for better positions in the organisation and that will come to the two possible outcomes; either it clear it self from cult like behaviour and become more attached to Karmapa or it will destroy it self. But it is entirely my opinion.
I am still doing ngondro but I asked different lama to give me lung for it be course i felt that Ole's oral transmit ion can not be trusted after my experience with his organisation.
P.S it would be very interesting if more people had similar Experience with DW and How they dealt with being rejected or ask to leave and did they try to seek advice from Tibetan Lamas.

Hi Dariusb.

I'm no longer living in a hostel, thanks for your concern.

You are correct, there is very much a sense of "are you with us, or are you against us" with DWB. This was the reason why I was told I should go somewhere else, effectively asking me to leave the centre I lived in. Why do the demand this level of commitment? Because it is a personality cult. Pressure is exerted, very subtle pressure in my case, so that you feel as though you are "letting the side down" if you don't comply. "You'll reach enlightenment quicker if you do more work for the centre". Thse kind of comments were made, not explicity in many cases but very much implied.

It's disgraceful that they would try to seperate you and your girlfriend!!! They can't cope with questions. Especially questions that challenge their claims to be a Buddhist organisation. They become quite hostile and insular. I don't believe that the people I expose I Liverpool are calculated cult leaders. I think they have been tricked into setting up centres and think they are doing Buddhas work.

After the recent letters from Shamarpa that seemed to be distancing himself from DWB I believe Malinowski said he felt his lifes work was under attack!!! Then you need to be careful whose work you do then don't you.... If Shamarpa seems to have problems with Nydahl then it's not so simple to accuse him of being 'sick' like you have labelled so many others who disagreed with you.

Yes, when Nydahl dies then DWB will probably split. Hopefully the good people will go to Karmapa and the Nydahl devotees can worship him.....

Steve

Actually, I doubt DWB will split. Nydahl has done much to ensure his disciples will continue his idea of Western buddhism. The organizations of other controversial teachers and sect leaders persisted after their death, too (i.e. Scientology).

Thanks for your contribution Dariusb....

My own experience is very similar to that descibed above, with this "either you are with us or against us" attitude.

I also agree competely with Dariusb's observation of the "pick n' mix" aspect. I would even go as far to say that they try to combine ideas that are completely at odds with each other, and switch between them whenever it suits them. An example of this would be the way they condemn others for lacking compassion, then turn around and make divisive and ignorant comments.

To me, they apply Buddhist ethics like a moraltiy, using it to measure and compare others, while at the same time totally failing to examine their own inconsistencies. I believe this is exactly why they end up looking like a cult when, as SteveLpool rightly observes - they do not set out to be a cult - but this occurs as a side effect to this very strong identity and very hypocritical stance.

For myself, I found the issues which made me "weird" to them were my 21st Century views on both race relations and gender issues. I found many of them to be utterly unaware that feminism had ever existed, and although I personally was accepting, if somewhat incredulous, of their prejudices, I found that this tolerance was not reciprocated.

The way I dealt with it was to learn about Buddhism proper and unlearn the DWB viewpoint (a process which is still ongoing several years after being levered out). I found many of the issues to be very mundane, such as things that are very common in non-Buddhist circles... gossip, selfishness, posessiveness, strong identity thinking on a personal and group level, etc., and this is exactly what made these issues so incidious, making them difficult to identify and root out.

Best Wishes, Suenam.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 03/02/2011 01:43AM by suenam.

Quote
suenam
....such as things that are very common in non-Buddhist circles... gossip, selfishness, posessiveness, strong identity thinking on a personal and group level, etc., and this is exactly what made these issues so incidious, making them difficult to identify and root out.

Just wanting to clarify this comment, as these things are not cult-like in and of themselves, but in my DWB experience, when combined with religious fervor they seem to produce a sort of crusade mentality, and I believe it would only be a small step for them to declare a "just war" not unlike a jihad.

It’s the idea that total devotion to your Lama brings the quickest results. I believe that this is a fundamental reason DWB has turned into a personality cult. If you wish to practice with them then you must give up all questioning and criticism of Nydahl. They will tolerate it for a while but ultimately it is this that will determine if you are welcomed or not.

With this in mind, I saw people behaving in questionable ways. This suggested to me that these people spent little time looking inwardly, examining their minds and checking what they found with the teachings. If you read Nydahl’s books you will discover that they read like adventure stories and really have little substance and really only pay lip service to the authentic teachings. So to me it is hardly surprising that some of his long standing and more devoted students seem far removed from the original Buddhist idea of ethical behaviour. The idea seems to be, “Ole tells me that my devotion to him will bring the fastest results. So I will just accept everything he tells me.” I met many people who refused to look beyond this…… hence they develop a cult around Nydahl.

I was even told by one of the Liverpool leaders that “in the Vajrayana we don’t need to practice mindfulness. We just acknowledge what is there”. For me, in order to acknowledge what is there we need to practice mindfulness. Shamarpa seems to suggest that what is practiced in the west (I think we can include DWB) isn’t Vajrayana anyhow. Can anyone verify or refute this for me? Also is the idea of not practicing mindfulness a Vajrayana concept.

Also Darius, if it doesn't put you in any danger, is it possible for you to tell us where you practiced with DWB? Was it in the UK?

Best wishes.

Steve