I'm going to come from a totally different angle and suggest that anyone trying to evaluate the sincerity of a minister and his proportional relationship direct to God. I recommend that you personally evaluate what is important to your life, family, the whole world, and all its inhabitants. You may develop a stronger sense of the important factors of the people you listen to.

randman:

Paul submitted to the elderes in Jerusalem.

And the disciples had accountability to each other.

There is also a process of selection recommended for a deacon, elder and evangelist in the New Testament. And also scripture regarding their discipline.

There is nothing regarding meaningful accountability in place at IHOP and now as further proof you are attempting to use the bible to defend a dictatorship.

The bible was written in the First Century before Christianity had billions of believers and thousands of denominations with churches around the globe.

As Christianity grew, like other religions, the need arose to organize and create structure for the multitude of believers.

The Protestant Reformation was in part a strong reaction to the abuse of absolute power.

Protestants would then historically organize democratically elected church government, which would provide meaningful accountability to the vast majority of Protestant churches and denominations.

Interestingly, the complaints that I receive typically come from groups that have no such provisions for accountability and essentially operate like petty kingdoms with self-proclaimed monarchs.

Historically, ministry scandals such as Jim Bakker and the PTL Club, Jimmy Swaggert and the current controversy swirling around TBN and Benny Hinn, largely have to do with the lack of meaningful accountability.

Accountability won't stop all bad behavior, but it is a powerful deterent.

But if you wish to live under and support a dictatorship that's your choice.

Zeuszor:

If you can find some previously published press articles about IHOP or Mike Bickle I will review them for possible inclusion within the database.

Two or three would provide the basis for a group page entry.

See what you can find.

I'm working on it.

Gruen's report is here:

[www.intotruth.org]

Zeuszor:

Local newspaper articles, or wire service articles.

Those are few and far between RR, but I'm working on it.

I read the WHOLE report, and found it to be truthful for the most part, I had some disagreement with a few things, but suffice it to say I found it to be 90% or more accurate, that being said, IHOP KC is NOT teaching these heresies any more and publicly disavows them, ( I know for a cetainty thaT IHOP- Atlanta absolutely does not)I, myself have pesonally had a long standing problem with anything Bob "Nekkid before the Lord" Jones has to say, Paul Cain, who was only mentioned slightly in the article, has apparently been 'restored' after being reprimanded and exposed for involvement in homosexuality and alcoholism, he has his own ministry somewhere. I don't subscribe to Paul Cain either. Mike Bickle has publicly recanted much of these excesses, I think it was mentioned earlier in this thread, is no longert part of Kansas City Fellowship, having stepped down and is now director of IHOP-KC, also we are looking at between 15 and 20 years since the KCP debacle. I am leaving a link to a blog from Ernie Gruen's grandson [apollos.wordpress.com] it includes many comments.

The article also correctly reflects the troubled history behind IHOP and Bickle.

Given the admitted lack of accountability Bickle now through elected boards and meaningful financial transparency, combined with his troubled history, should make anyone pause and consider carefully any involvement with IHOP.

There are so many ministries that don't have such a troubled history and therefore represent a much safer less potentially harmful place to support and become involved.

Just so you don't think I've run off, rr, I'm still awaiting for a response from either of my e-mails to the head of both the accounting department and the board of directors at IHOP. I'll resend. I've been having problems with my mail not getting through. It's possible they never got mine, or I never got their reply.

Zeuszor, you've somewhat convinced me to do an investigation of my own. Unfortunately, I'll have to wait until I take my vacation later in the year. Bear in mind that personal anecdotes do not constitute as evidence. Photography would be nice, which is what I plan on. Specifically, the living quarters. As I mentioned earlier, my church has sent people to IHOP for internship and such programs, and I never heard of any of this stuff.