Chris.fitzpatrick:

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where can I find in the scriptures of any church being able to fire the pastor?

Look within the bible for scriptures regarding seeking tax-exempt status, setting up corporations with officers and filing 990s.

The New Testament was written almost 2,000 years ago, before Christianity became a world religion with millions of members.

Protestants, beginning with the Reformation and Martin Luther, protested authoritarian control and most Protestant churches today can fire their pastor through boards and bylaws.

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if you cannot trust the ministry you are giving to, DON'T GIVE.

Thankfully, most ministries don't have such a policy and contributors can seek meaningful financial disclosure without intimidation.

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rrmoderator
A detailed disclosure of all salaries and compensation is not required by the IRS. And Religious tax-exempted organizations are only required to disclose very basic financial information.

IHOP does not give "salaries" (except apparently to Allen Hood, according to the form). It gives donations, but most IHOPers receive either donations, raise funds through their ministry (like worship leaders and/or bands selling CDs), or have a job if they're part-time staff.

Where exactly does this "requirement" of disclosure come from?

How much money does Mike Bickle receive in total compensation annually?

Where can a contributor find a complete disclosure of all spending from charitable funds at IHOP citing each expense in detail through a published budget report that has been independently audited?

Again, Navigators, Campus Crusade, Billy Graham, Prison Fellowship and many, many other ministries disclose such information in great detail.

Thankfully, the majority of ministries are very open and democratic.

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Where exactly does this "requirement" of disclosure come from?

Common sense would seem to require that people verify where the money is going through meaningful financial transparency at a tax-exempted charity or ministry. And to be sure that there are checks and balances also in place provided by the group's bylaws to insure meaningful accountability.

Of course people are free to support and contribute to whatever charity they want, but most Christians don't support ministries without the previously cited provisions.

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rrmoderator
How much money does Mike Bickle receive in total compensation annually?

According to the forms at Guidestar - none. As I've repeatedly said, he supports himself through his own ministry, not through IHOP donations. 2 people received compensation (on the latest form) for their services, totalling less than $10,000, and Bickle isn't one of them.

Saying "none" based upon Guidestar is misleading.

Guidstar has "none" because IHOP has chosen to limit its disclosure through public records. They have disclosed "none."

Without an independently audited and detailed financial report you have no way to substantiate the claims you make here.

You are simply guessing and offering apologies for Bickle based upon whatever they tell you.

You "trust" them, but Bickle has actually has no meaningful accountability.

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chris.fitzpatrick
Just a couple of questions, where can I find in the scriptures of any church being able to fire the pastor?

It's not in there. However, there are scriptures regarding ethical accountability. I've found that accountability among friends is far more convicting and preventative than an organization for accountability, but friends of a leader have no power to correct. Just the contrary, organizations of accountability have the power to do something about a wrong, but lack the preventative nature accountability among friends brings.

With the rise of so many destructive cults & organizations, I fully understand the concerns that rrmoderator is bringing up. Typically, if a leader of an organization is set out for personal gain, there will be foul play in accounting practices, and thus, accounting info will be hidden. This isn't to imply that lack of financial reports to the public [i:cf90b72d78]indicates[/i:cf90b72d78] foul play.

Likewise, the majority of independant or non-denominational churches have pastors that basically appointed themselves head of these churches. The majority of the time, however, there are local accountability organizations that tie them together within a small region. Occasionally, there may be a leader/pastor that takes advantage of a situation like this. That is the other concern of rrmoderator. Unfortunately, there is no system of [i:cf90b72d78]ethical[/i:cf90b72d78] accountability in place (to my knowledge) that streches across more than a single denomination like there is for financial accountability.

I thought I'd clarify since you haven't been in the majority of this conversation. The concerns of the RR Institute are not doctrinal, unless the doctrine proves destructive (such as requiring members to refuse medical treatement).

I think rrmoderator's concerns in these areas are quite valid (despite this discussion). I wish they weren't quite as broad, though.

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rrmoderator
Without an independently audited and detailed financial report you have no way to substantiate the claims you make here.

I shall inquire of them again.

I happened to get a response from the first e-mail I sent to them, from Mike's assistant. IHOP does indeed have a board of directors, and Mike is required to report to them on a weekly basis.

How is the board elected/selected?

Can the board be dismissed by Mike Bickle?

Can the board discipline and/or dismiss Mike Bickle?

Does the board produce a detailed budget that is published, which discloses all expenses, salaries, compensation paid out from ministry funds, i.e. what Mike Bickle receives.

Where'd everybody go? No answers to RR's questions?