Let's hope these things are not true.

Apparently, hoping is the only option you have Chris, since there are no meaningful checks and balances as within most churches and ministries at IHOP for Bickle and his crew.

And the "Kansas City Prophets" have been exposed for "nutball stuff" historically.

The Kansas City Prophets is a term for many of the leaders and preachers that were based in Kansas City during the revival movement in the ’90s. These include people such as Paul Cain, Bob Jones, and John Paul Jackson. Prophecy was not their primary goal, but it was a highly visible part of their ministry. There was a huge controversy over their ministry and message in the ’90s. It was, I believe, started by a man named Ernie Gruen and then picked up by other ministries and the press. The controversy has since died down; a lot of water has run under the bridge. Ernie Gruen retracted his comments and apologized to Mike Bickle; most of the Kansas City Prophets no longer live in KC or no longer preach in IHOP’s pulpit; and many of the messages are still taught here, but have been greatly clarified and further backed up with Scripture. The Kansas City Prophets era is often mentioned by critics of IHOP. I agree it’s important to examine the roots and history of a ministry. But also keep in mind IHOP has come a long way since then.

Chris:

What an objective observer or researcher can conclude from an examination of the "Kansas City Prophets" is that Mike Bickle was into some pretty "nutball stuff."

And you say that "many of the messages are still taught" at IHOP in some way.

This history makes Bickle and his operation less credible and reliable in my opinion.

But if you wish to associate yourself with Bickle's IHOP organization that's your choice.

I have received complaints that express concerns similar to what Zeuzor has outlined.

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chris.fitzpatrick
Counselor47, I don't know how you arrived at me being arrogant, condescending or self righteous. I don't mean to be, I really need to go back and examine my posts, I am horrified that you would think that, not at you, but that somehow I might come off like that, if I was rude to you, I am sorry. Just because I don't perceive it, does not make it untrue, I ask for forgiveness from you, I am sorry.

I appreciate your humble response, and hold nothing against you. I believe you are a sincere person, but be careful of thinking you have the inside track to God. He is working in many people's lives in ways that you do not know about. Wealth can be a spiritual danger, true, but so can pride.

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The New Testament was written 2,000 years ago and doesn't discuss tax-exempt status, setting up corporations for ministries, evangelist salaries, allowed expense accounts, etc. all of which Bickle and IHOP take advantage of daily.

It may not discuss tax-exempt status but it does address recompensation for ministers (salaries), and to call the fact that the bishops or cardinals "elect" one of their own does not change the fact that the leadership of the Catholic church is NOT ELECTED of the people, and I believe that is true with Presbyterian church polity.

I think what you are saying and doing is counterproductive because if there are cultic tendencies, they should be exposed. Varying systems of "accountability" are not indicative or the issue on whether a group is a cult.

Was Jesus subject to a Board?

John the Baptist?

Paul, the apostle? Paul appears to have operated as a totalitarian by your standards.....must have been a cult-man, eh?

randman:

No one elected Mike Bickle.

Mike Bickle is not "Jesus," "John the Baptist" or the "Apostle Paul."

Bickle has apparently made himself leader for life at IHOP and no one it seems can remove him, i.e. through an elected board or as provided by constitutional bylaws.

And you have no idea how much money he takes from the ministry funds each year, because there is no audited report that details all salaries, compensation and expenses.

You are attempting to change the subject.

The subject of this thread is Mike Bickle and IHOP.

One of the stranger things that I was told while investigating in KC was of how there was of some sort of confrontation with the local Muslim community about a year ago; some IHOPpers were out distributing tracts and witnessing on the grounds of a Muslim school in the area, to the Muslim youth there. Somebody's parents (a group of them) were highly offended and later when they (the parents) showed up at the campus to protest here was some kind of altercation there in the Prayer Room, and the Muslims were forcibly ejected. There has been tension between local Muslims in KC and the IHOPpers ever since. I was told that the IHOPpers are very aggressive in witnessing to Muslims to the point of harassing them, and that it has resulted in physical confrontation.

Say RR, how come there's no entry about IHOP in your database? That info would be helpful for researchers, and there visitor's comments would be valuable. Why not?

I am not changing the subject. You have a false balance because you are asserting non-biblical standards for judging ministers and ministries. If he wasn't "elected" as you state, so what?

I am not saying various manmade mechanisms to help ministries stay on the right path are bad, but they are certainly debatable, and they are not listed in the Bible as something whereby we should judge one another or ministries.

There are plenty of things to watch out for, the fruit of the ministry, the spirit, whether they deny or accept Christ, whether they are overly controlling asserting authority that is not scriptural, and a ton of stuff.

But I don't see anywhere that God says, hey, if you are not elected, you cannot serve. I don't even see where such things are all that effective in preventing major problems either. Certainly, a guy like Ted Haggard had all those things you like in place, and he still fell. I realize that's different than claiming cultish practices, but the point still holds. You are advancing a personal belief in how to avoid major problems, and they don't really work and they are not required.

it matters not one whit if a ministry begins and is founded that was not elected. You dismiss Paul, John the Baptist and Jesus as examples flippantly, but those are our examples.

Did the churched Paul started "elect" him?

He must be a cult-man, eh?