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7 years ago
suenam
Quotekaram-mudra...who share his positions is radical, inhumane and unteachable. Studies of authoritarianism/conservatism suggest that "ideological stubbornness" may be explained by a number of combined factors… - Deferral to perceived legitimate authority rather than open mindedness - A tendency to compartmentalized thinking, and not noticing contradictions between compartmentali
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"
7 years ago
suenam
QuotejamgonIt is an interesting sociological debate whether someone brought up say in a Muslim area of Pakistan is a product of religion or culture. My counter-example would be a resident of Vatican. Would we trace their behavioural package to a multi-cultural joke state in Italy or to the Catholic influences? If they committed say a sexual offence against a minor would we say the Italian culture
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"
7 years ago
suenam
@ Jamgon, It seems that what you are highlighting here is an issue with immigrant males rather than anything indicating a connection to religious beliefs. I very much doubt that the people committing street crime are doing so in the name of radical Islam, however without proper provision in the host countries then the increasing alienation and feelings of being dispossessed may well lead to
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"
7 years ago
suenam
QuotejamgonRe: Ole Nydahl and Diamond Way BuddhismHi folks, Been following this thread for a while now. I've just come across this video on youtube: When you are being confronted by someone aggressive first try to disengage by not taking the bait - act as if you want "nothing to do" with them. If you are being physically attacked try to use non-violent means of defence. If
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"
7 years ago
suenam
QuotewarrenzI don't think you have to deconstruct Ole's books to see that he does not understand basic Buddhist concepts. If he had any real understanding of the Buddha's teaching he would not behave like he does in the video posted by Kartik. @Kartik What a schmuck that guys is! I really don't think anyone can deny he has links to the Eastern European Far Right when say
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"
7 years ago
suenam
QuotewarrenzWell it would appear that Scherer is not above a little mild criticism of Ole... I guess it depends upon your perspective, but the implications seem quite profound for someone in Nydahl's position. Scherer juxtaposes Hannah's understanding (in footnote 43) with Ole's "essentialism" - from my perspective this implies that Hannah understood the doctrine of
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"
7 years ago
suenam
A 2011 article by Burkhard Scherer (a student of Nydahl) called, "Macho Buddhism: Gender and Sexualities in the Diamond Way" where he describes Nydahl's use of gender stereotypes, limited understanding, and his movement from overt homophobia to what he now calls a mild homophobia. As you would expect, he uses the "hermeneutics of recovery" to attempt some form of e
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"
7 years ago
suenam
QuoteSceptic Watcher@Suenam Vajrayana Buddhism often works that way The aim of devotion is the natural state, Buddha-nature, rather than the personal opinions which act as defilements and obscure that nature. The Lama's accomplishment is the relinquishing of all views. I think that for the most part the students are aware of what they are devoting themselves to. The fact that many DWB
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"
7 years ago
suenam
QuoteSceptic Watcher@Suenam Vajrayana Buddhism often works that way - and worse. See Trungpa forcing W.S. Mervin and Dana Naone to strip against their wills. As I said, Nydahl's behaviour is a symptom of a greater problem. But Kate is right, this isn't the place for that discussion, and we will probably have to agree to disagree. If you want to continue conversation on this topic, we s
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"
7 years ago
suenam
Personally I haven't found any other Buddhist work which describes enlightenment as power in this way. DWB members have been perceived as thrill-seeking, sex-mad egomaniacs, and Nydahl comes across as a power hungry and arrogant leader who quite happily takes advantage of a power differential to get his sexual kicks. In the light of this sentence is this simply a coincidence?
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"
7 years ago
suenam
QuotejamgonI agree. This thread in discussion was brought about by Suenam’s comments on a philosophical passage in Lama Ole’s book. She/he now appears to accept (in sharp contrast to her/his original stance) that Middle Way Buddhism does recognise a timeless essence which pervades all beings. Once we have mopped things up we will no doubt go back to discussing Lama Ole’s racism etc. On the cont
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"
7 years ago
suenam
Quote~*~ k a t e ~*~Quotesuenam @ ~*~ k a t e ~*~ Personally I find it important to consider whether Nydahl is practicing Buddhism or some kind of pantheistic religion. I think it's perfectly clear that Ole Nydahl's racist, sexist and homophobic views are at complete odds with Buddhism. Also, real Buddhist teachers don't sexually and financially abuse their students. This need
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"
7 years ago
suenam
QuotejamgonSo, dharmadhatu (usually translated as truth state or even buddha nature) is a/ absolute b/ timeless c/ the essence of things d/ pervades all sentient beings. e/ is not truly existent. (if it were truly existent then Buddhism would simply be a form of eternalism and not the middle way between eternalism and nihilism). @ ~*~ k a t e ~*~ Personally I find it important to consider wh
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"
7 years ago
suenam
Quotejamgonor "Cloudless sky" by Jamgon Kongtrul: The actual nature of mind, which is luminosity, is free from birth, dwelling, and cessation (...) Since mind has not arisen and has no end there can obviously be nowhere to dwell. So, as you see, you are completely wrong on this point. Peace "Cloudless Sky" by Jamong Kongtrul, "However, if one exam
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"
7 years ago
suenam
QuoteSceptic Watcher@Emptiness is beyond concepts It's not as if other Buddhist teachers haven't tried to describe this state beyond concepts on a conceptual level - There are mounds of literature that expand on that one sentence and try to make it clearer to the student. If you compare the quote from Ringu Tulku I think you can clearly see the difference, and for me Ringu Tulku's
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"
7 years ago
suenam
QuoteSceptic Watcher@Suenam From the book by Ringu Tulku I mentioned above, p. 164, explaining the completion stage of meditation. "From this emptinss the pure and vivid manifestation of the deity arises, which while present is not different from emptiness, and which then dies - dissolving back into emptiness. In the context of the Vajrayana, emptiness is to be understood as "emptines
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"
7 years ago
suenam
QuotejamgonSuenam: Here is another quotation from page 10 of the new edition of "The Way Things Are" - "So what does Buddha teach as ultimately true? He explains that a timeless essence pervades, knows, and is the foundation of everything. That something absolute must always be always and everywhere, never created nor destroyed; otherwise it would be conditioned and relative.
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"
7 years ago
suenam
QuoteAlexander NevskyQuotesuenam Some quotes from that book - "Probably nobody informed expects anything but hate and suppression from Islam" Dalai Lama's message to Tibetan Muslims. It would be interesting to know what he is talking about. But the body language speaks for itself. Gyaltsen100 writes - This is my understanding.. I quote "I am very pleased to hear
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"
7 years ago
suenam
Here is another quotation from page 10 of the new edition of "The Way Things Are" - "So what does Buddha teach as ultimately true? He explains that a timeless essence pervades, knows, and is the foundation of everything. That something absolute must always be always and everywhere, never created nor destroyed; otherwise it would be conditioned and relative. Space and its richne
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"
7 years ago
suenam
QuoteSceptic WatcherQuotesuenam My perception of this is completely different. Yes, Trungpa, Sogyal, Shamar, etc. may be seen as having weaknesses and shortcomings and perhaps could be said to have set a poor examples, however I personally think that they at least have shown a degree of theoretical knowledge which means that they could point their students in the right direction. To anyone wi
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"
7 years ago
suenam
QuoteSceptic WatcherI think that despite him teaching Dharma correctly, he is a bad teacher because all those other factors don't match. It's the same as with many other gurus who claim crazy wisdom (see Chögyam Trungpa, Ösel Tendzin). My perception of this is completely different. Yes, Trungpa, Sogyal, Shamar, etc. may be seen as having weaknesses and shortcomings and perhaps could b
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"
7 years ago
suenam
QuoteSceptic WatcherWhenever Ole says anything that may not be construed as Buddhist, he clearly points out that it is his personal opinion. For example, when he makes political comments, he says beforehand that this is his personal opinion and that Buddha could not have had an opinion on that matter. Personally I haven't witnessed this. In the lectures I have been to Nydahl has started of
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"
7 years ago
suenam
QuoteAlexander NevskySuenam, Burkhard Scherer is one of diamondway teachers: Yes, clearly this a claim made by DWB and I think that warrenz is right when he said that these figures are inflated.
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"
7 years ago
suenam
My mistake, the figure was 70,000. - "For example, in Germany - one of the countries with the largest number of Diamond Way followers - the German Buddhist Union (DBU) estimates that the number of regular visitors of Diamond Way centers and groups is 20,000.(9) The German Diamond Way umbrella association "Buddhistischer Dachverband Diamantweg", or BDD, estimates its (paying
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"
7 years ago
suenam
QuotewarrenzQuotesuenam Were Shamar to withdraw his support for Nydahl then the whole issue of the two Karmapas would implode and the result would be a one-sided 'victory' for Ugyen Trinlay and his supporters. Does that strike you as a satisfactory resolution to this issue? Would it not in fact be preferable for Shamarpa to work toward a scenario where DWB became less of a personality c
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"
7 years ago
suenam
QuotewarrenzBut the real point here is not whether Shamar acts like Ole but that he clearly supports him even though he knows what goes on in DW. It is absurd for Shamar students to post on this forum, wringing their hands about how terrible Ole is, when Shamar provides letters of support that excuse Nydahl and shield him from criticism and when Shamar and Thaye Dorje visits DW centres and pocket
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"
7 years ago
suenam
QuoteSceptic WatcherHowever, trying to assign pure motives to Sharmapa's actions is a slippery slope. Why should one do so for Sharmapa, but not for Ole? If Sharmapa supports Ole for pure reasons, maybe Ole parties and is racist and sexist for pure reasons, too? This was sort of my point, but viewed from a different angle - putting speculations about motives aside, Nydahl is sexist, racist
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"
7 years ago
suenam
QuotewarrenzIf, as you suggest, DW members are mostly in it for the social aspect then they probably not going to be interested in an Shamar/Thaye Dorje run organization - unless the latter turns out to be a party animal too (which I doubt). In which case once Ole passes into nirvana DW will quietly disappear (hopefully rather than violently implode). Maybe Shamar does not understand that? No,
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"
7 years ago
suenam
QuotewarrenzBy not trying to separate the ordinary Buddhists in DW from Nydahl, he is abandoning them. Can't you see that? Oh yes, I agree completely, but I fail to see how this could be accomplished, particularly if Shamarpa withdraws his support as you suggest - would this not risk polarizing the situation? On a minor point, my experience of current and prospective members was that the
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"
7 years ago
suenam
Quotecorboy*Waiting until Ole N becomes incapacitated will buy time, and eventually the Sharmapa will be called in to mediate and be in a position to take some or all control of the DW Gompa. (I would term it a fiefdom, but thats my cynical opinion) Skillful means. While I appreciate your cynicism, and equally warrenz's reasons for viewing Shamarpa in that way, I can't help but see
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"
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