Quote
SteveLpool
I’d just like to comment on a few points raised by Carlitos.




I attended five Phowa course in Karma Guen and I never manifested the sign. My ex-friends from the centre told me I did so I asked them to take pictures so I could see the sign (I’m bald so it should be easy to spot). The photographs showed nothing. Having said this I do feel that I benefited greatly from the Phowa but I couldn’t tell you exactly how. Perhaps the discipline to meditate for 9 hours a day for 5 days was beneficial. Anyway, this is why I did 5 courses. Not for the sign but for the meditation focus. I looked for the sign on others several times and saw nothing also. I was told this was because I wasn’t qualified to see a small blood blister on someone’s head …

Thank you so much Steve about this point because a my friend did the Powa for the first time and had the sign, I saw it. I thought not having the sign of the practice had not made any effect. Infact at the DW center the people told me that it isn't important the sign but on the other case, still now, I haven't benefited from the Phowa so I think it has no effects.

Quote
warrenz

Quote
suenam

Going forward though, I think DW will shrink and become much less significant after Ole dies. A small rump of supporters will stay loyal to Thaye Dorje but the Ole fans will move on to another rock'n'roll guru. After the Dalai Lama's death and the elevation by popular acclaim of Ugyen Trinlay to the role of Tibetan figure head (something, BTW, I think is probably a very bad idea but unavoidable), Ugyen Trinlay will become a major world figure and Thaye Dorje's support will dwindle everywhere except perhaps mainland China where the Chinese will probably try to use him against the Tibetan people (hopefully unsuccessfully). Thaye Dorje will never wear the black hat since he is so unpopular in Sikkim he cannot go to Rumtek. Ugyen Trinlay may not get to wear it either since the Indians may fear his presence in Sikkim would destabilize the region / provoke the Chinese - plus each side will try to tie the hold thing up in court for decades if it suits them to do so. I think Thaye Dorje should come out of Shamar's shadow. I get the impression he is not really calling the shots. Unlike the other wing where Ugyen Trinlay is in full control and Situ and Gyaltsap have very much taken a back seat in recent years. If he does not he will have a tough time when Shamar goes getting any recognition. Unless Ugyen Trinlay were to suddenly renounce the title, Thaye Dorje can only look forward to a future of increasing obscurity.


I agree on the power struggle behind the scenes of the XXVII Karmapa and time of all lineages Vajariana. Ole's wife always said that the cause of the problems of Buddhism in the East was for the play of powers of the directors. Both centers DW-Ole and the monasteries of Shamar run too much money. In Europe starts in millions of euros to build the center of Munich, million of euro donated to the Karmapa in Spain. Too much money. I have no doubt there is a pyramid with a domed top that manages money and power.
When I went to a conference of the Dalai Lama and take blessing there was no price for a ticket, but accepted donations at the discretion. At Karma Guen to see and take a blessing from the Karmapta I had to pay. I gave money to the Dalai lama conferenceand blessing but it's my choise.

Another thing is that in the Shamarpa Monastery and, for example, in the Gelupa Monestary I visted near my city, there is always a Lama. You can talk or pratice always with a Lama that lives inside the centere. In the DWCenter there are no lamas, only persons who pratice from years, ora sometimes travelling teacher, but no Lamas live in the DWC because the only Lama in Diamond Way is Ole, and he is always around the world.

Quote
Sceptic Watcher
However, trying to assign pure motives to Sharmapa's actions is a slippery slope. Why should one do so for Sharmapa, but not for Ole? If Sharmapa supports Ole for pure reasons, maybe Ole parties and is racist and sexist for pure reasons, too?

Quote
suenam

Quote
Sceptic Watcher
However, trying to assign pure motives to Sharmapa's actions is a slippery slope. Why should one do so for Sharmapa, but not for Ole? If Sharmapa supports Ole for pure reasons, maybe Ole parties and is racist and sexist for pure reasons, too?

This was sort of my point, but viewed from a different angle - putting speculations about motives aside, Nydahl is sexist, racist, and dualistic, not only in private, but also during lectures which are supposed to be on Buddhism. Nydahl and his students attempt to justify that, while Shamarpa clearly states that it samsaric confusion. Maybe Shamarpa doesn't always achieve perfection in that regard, but at least he appers to know the difference between Buddhism and dualism.

Quote
dariusb
my apologies for going of topic a bit.
warrenz, the reason i called Ugyen Trinlay a "Chinese Karmapa" just because He is recognised as "Leaving Buddha" by Chinese government.[en.wikipedia.org] .
If everything to take on face value than let's take Ole vs Shamarpa.
1) Shamarpa does not teach vajrayana to western people he clearly can see that it is unsafe for us.
Ole can not see that. Why? because he enjoys his status as the leader of a cult.
2) knowing the history of Shamarpas lineage it is not surprising that he ends up almost on his own. [en.wikipedia.org]
Ole does not have a history of reincarnations neither he can be banned by gelugpas He does not belong to tibetan culture.
3) OLe clearly mixes Buddhism with politics.
Shamarpa does not.
4) Shamarpa has got proper Buddhist scholar education.
Ole does not have one.


I remember growing up in nineteen nineties in Eastern Europe, there were so many different gurus and preachers all sorts coming over to pull people to their religion and funny enough that was when Ole started to build his "army" in ex eastern bloc.

Quote
warrenz
But the real point here is not whether Shamar acts like Ole but that he clearly supports him even though he knows what goes on in DW. It is absurd for Shamar students to post on this forum, wringing their hands about how terrible Ole is, when Shamar provides letters of support that excuse Nydahl and shield him from criticism and when Shamar and Thaye Dorje visits DW centres and pocket the donations. He is, I am truly sorry to say, a hypocrite. That may be hard to hear but I have not seen any credible argument put forward here that would excuse his behavior.

Quote
suenam
Were Shamar to withdraw his support for Nydahl then the whole issue of the two Karmapas would implode and the result would be a one-sided 'victory' for Ugyen Trinlay and his supporters. Does that strike you as a satisfactory resolution to this issue? Would it not in fact be preferable for Shamarpa to work toward a scenario where DWB became less of a personality cult and more like a Buddhist organisation?

Quote
warrenz

Quote
suenam
Were Shamar to withdraw his support for Nydahl then the whole issue of the two Karmapas would implode and the result would be a one-sided 'victory' for Ugyen Trinlay and his supporters. Does that strike you as a satisfactory resolution to this issue? Would it not in fact be preferable for Shamarpa to work toward a scenario where DWB became less of a personality cult and more like a Buddhist organisation?

I don't think the Karmapa issue would implode really. I think it is pretty much over. The likely future I can see for both candidates I mentioned in another post. I don't think current supporters on either side will switch now unless one candidate declares the other to be the true Karmapa (not very likely).

I cannot see how the recent letter of support works toward reforming DWB. If anything, it says Ole is free to continue as before and people should not believe the allegations against him or DWB. If Shamar has some long-term secret plan to save DWB that we mere mortals cannot fathom, it really is taking a very peculiar form. What about the people who continue to be manipulated and misled in DWB in the meantime?

I think Shamar and Thaye Dorje could quietly stop visiting DWB centres - no need for some big public confrontation with Ole. Just a withdrawal of cooperation and, in the Tibetan manner, let it be known privately on the grapevine that Ole is persona non grata. This would have an effect on Thaye Dorje's candidature I suppose but it would sure improve his reputation which might help counterbalance the loss of Ole's support. As it stands, people could with some justification ask if this can be the true Karmapa if he has to rely on a creep like Ole Nydahl?