Suenam:

In the comments section to the link you provided and it seems some other people have also assumed that it is about Islam. In the video, both the person asking and Nydal also fail to question this assumption.

(…)

It seems quite clear that automatically linking the issue of being threatened in the street to a religious issue like DWB does shows a willful prejudice and ignorance based on a false generalization which creates an unnecessary division in the whole society.

I agree – to claim that 100% of all violence and rape in the West is perpetrated by Muslim immigrants is an ignorant generalisation. In reality, the percentage is lower:

[www.brusselsjournal.com]

the newspaper Aftonbladet reported several years ago that 9 out of 10 of the most criminal ethnic groups in Sweden came from Muslim countries

(…)

Resident aliens from Algeria, Libya, Morocco and Tunisia dominate the group of rape suspects. Lawyer Ann Christine Hjelm found that 85 per cent of the convicted rapists were born on foreign soil or from foreign parents.

[www.cbn.com]

Recent police statistics showed that in the capital city of Oslo, 100 percent [jamgon: ouuups…] of assault rapes between strangers were committed by immigrant, non-Western males. And nine out of 10 of their victims were native Norwegian women.

Peace

Hi Jamgon,

thank you for the numbers. I would prefer less biased sources, though.

The BrusselsJournal is described on Wikipedia as "one of the Counterjihad movement's main channels", and CBN is short for "Christian Broadcasting Network". Both sources have an interest of portraying muslims in a bad light.

Do any sources that are more neutral (for example, the cited police statistic itself, or the sources Aftonbladet used for its claim) show the same numbers?

@ Jamgon,

It seems that what you are highlighting here is an issue with immigrant males rather than anything indicating a connection to religious beliefs.

I very much doubt that the people committing street crime are doing so in the name of radical Islam, however without proper provision in the host countries then the increasing alienation and feelings of being dispossessed may well lead to such individuals turning to such extremes. Claiming that the issue is one of religion rather than one of gender, culture, economics, nationality, or immigration would seem to only serve to exacerbate the problem.

(Incidentally, the majority of DWB members in the U.K. are immigrant males - would that then mean that any crime they commit should also be attributed to their religion?).



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/02/2012 09:58PM by suenam.

It appears that all of the mirrors of the video posted by Kartik have been removed by Youtube prompted by Ole's groups in the US. That didn't take long. I wonder what they are afraid of? (No, not really)

Suenam:

thank you for the numbers. I would prefer less biased sources, though.

Do any sources that are more neutral (for example, the cited police statistic itself, or the sources Aftonbladet used for its claim) show the same numbers? The BrusselsJournal is described on Wikipedia as "one of the Counterjihad movement's main channels", and CBN is short for "Christian Broadcasting Network". Both sources have an interest of portraying muslims in a bad light.

It seems that what you are highlighting here is an issue with immigrant males rather than anything indicating a connection to religious beliefs. I very much doubt that the people committing street crime are doing so in the name of radical Islam

I cannot access Scandinavian sources (like Aftonbladet) because of the language barrier but, since you asked, here are some relevant news items which do not come from anti-jihad or Christian websites:

[www.telegraph.co.uk]

In 2009, a chapel serving the city's 700-strong Jewish community was set ablaze. Jewish cemeteries were repeatedly desecrated, worshippers were abused on their way home from prayer, and "Hitler" was mockingly chanted in the streets by masked men.

(...)

"This new hatred comes from Muslim immigrants. The Jewish people are afraid now."

[www.dailymail.co.uk]

‘I was a white girl who he wanted to control and prove that he could convert to Islam. I saw him and the gang tell non-Muslim girls they were “slags”. I believe it was the religion and culture of these men that made them act like that.'

[www.washingtontimes.com]

Anti-Semitic crimes in Europe have usually been associated with the far right, but Shneur Kesselman, an Orthodox rabbi, says the threat now comes from Muslims.

“In the past five years I’ve been here, I think you can count on your hand how many incidents there have been from the extreme right,” he said. “In my personal experience, it’s 99 percent Muslims.”

[www.dailymail.co.uk]

A group of Muslim men who abducted and raped two teenage girls as part of their [jamgon: Muslim festival] Eid celebrations laughed in court yesterday as they were jailed for a total of 38 years.

[www.americanthinker.com]

Anti-Semitism has gotten so ugly in The Netherlands that Jews walking along Amsterdam's street are being harassed by young Muslims who yell insults or give Nazi salutes.

[www.telegraph.co.uk]

In February this year, dozens of stickers appeared across Tower Hamlets quoting the Koran, declaring the borough a “gay-free zone” and stating that “verily Allah is severe in punishment.”

The Sunday Telegraph has learned that during a routine stop-and-search at the time police found a young Muslim man with a number of the stickers in his possession

[www.dailymail.co.uk]

Judge Gerald Clinton accused the gang of targeting white girls because they were not part of their ‘community or religion’.

You may wonder why these incidents are typically reported in the mainstream media stripped of the racial and religious denominators. Here are some theories:

[www.telegraph.co.uk]

Victims say that officers in the borough of Tower Hamlets have ignored or downplayed outbreaks of hate crime, and suppressed evidence implicating Muslims in them, because they fear being accused of racism.

[www.theatheistconservative.com]

In Sweden NOBODY talks about immigration problems, the death of the multiculti project or the Islamisation/Arabisation of Europe. If you do, you will immediately be called a racist, an Islamophobe or a Nazi. That is what I have been called since I founded the Free Press Society in Sweden.

Also, there is a significant (and growing) influence of the Saudis in the Middle-East:

[www.arabmediasociety.com]

Saudi Arabia’s takeover of the region’s media is a reflection of what is occurring globally where a handful of multinational companies increasingly dominate the media.

and World media:

[en.wikipedia.org]

Prince Alwaleed bin Talal al-Saud of Saudi Arabia, through his Kingdom Holding Company, owns 10% of News Corp.'s shares, making Kingdom Holdings the second largest shareholder.

It is an interesting sociological debate whether someone brought up say in a Muslim area of Pakistan is a product of religion or culture. My counter-example would be a resident of Vatican. Would we trace their behavioural package to a multi-cultural joke state in Italy or to the Catholic influences? If they committed say a sexual offence against a minor would we say the Italian culture was to blame?

Peace

Please do not drift off topic.

This thread is not a debate about general religious or cultural influences.

Quote
jamgon
It is an interesting sociological debate whether someone brought up say in a Muslim area of Pakistan is a product of religion or culture. My counter-example would be a resident of Vatican. Would we trace their behavioural package to a multi-cultural joke state in Italy or to the Catholic influences? If they committed say a sexual offence against a minor would we say the Italian culture was to blame?

I think we would neither blame Italian culture nor Catholicism but we would in fact hold the individual responsible. Were they a member of the clergy then questions would be asked of the Church's vetting procedures rather than than inferring a causal relationship.

I notice that many of your links are to right-wing neo-conservative sites that unsurprisingly back up Nydahl's view. This is twice now that you have spammed a list of links in lieu of reasoning for yourself.

The argument here is not that the right-wing neoconservative element in the media can portray events in a certain light and highlight connections that support their own authoritarian, dogmatic, and anti-democratic viewpoint.

I have seen many instances of refugee immigration with similar problems regardless of ethnicity or religion. I have no doubt that you can find many instances of Muslims comitting crimes, and also instances of the opposite - apparently well over 50% of crime in Sweden is committed by Swedes - should we then infer that the Swedes are somehow an organised criminal group? - but then we find that men are found to be responsible for around 80% of all crime - should we then infer that men are somehow a threat to civilization?

One important phrase in Buddhist meditation could be phrased the way Nydahl translates it - "We understand causality. That it is up to us what will happen..." - there are a multitude of causes, so what will happen if we choose to polarize society by blaming a whole religion?

A quote from the link you posted [www.cbn.com] says, "Walid al-Kubaisi is a respected Norwegian journalist and a Muslim who came from Iraq. He is concerned about radical Islamic elements within an otherwise law abiding Muslim community."

The Muslim community is concerned about radical Islamic elements in the same way that the European community is concerned about right wing neoconservative authoritarian extremists - where do you think we locate Nydahl and DWB in that?

"The Muslim community is concerned about radical Islamic elements in the same way that the European community is concerned about right wing neoconservative authoritarian extremists - where do you think we locate Nydahl and DWB in that?"

Suanam, you are right. But an islamophobic Guru like Nydahl with a great number of followers - not all of them - who share his positions is radical, inhumane and unteachable. We were right if ranging him without any doubt in the neoconservative authoritarian extremists.

Once when I was there he tried to convince me, even Buddha had made an reverse remark against Islam. He had used the Pali or Sanskrit word for it. Independent of that Islam did not exist in Buddha´s times he made a fortold about it. So I know something about fortolding due to my own experiences and so I can imagine he did. But the essence of fortolding is, there never is an estimation in it. What ever Buddha saw, he was not founding an Anti-Islam position within the Buddhist community. In opposite to tantric-tibetan Lamaism: As a result of the trauma of destroiying the buddhist culture in North India through Moslems the Kalachakra Tantra was whritten and in that Tantra you find all of the rage, delight in destruction and deep resentment against Islam as well as against Jesus von Nazareth insofar as he is a prophet of the Muslims too. In this tradition Nydahl is teaching believing to do it in the best way of tibetan Lamaism.

Warrenz:

"It appears that all of the mirrors of the video posted by Kartik have been removed by Youtube prompted by Ole's groups in the US. That didn't take long. I wonder what they are afraid of? (No, not really)"

Yes, really, they are afraid! All theire actions of closing blogs, deleting post - another three posts were deleted from my blog - and forbidding videos are a sign of insufficient supremacy and lack of equanimity. Ole Nydahl is such a "small light"!

When Dharma is Fake--Turning Citizens into Narrow Minded Peasants With High Earning Power in Capitalist Society

In the 18th century, Voltaire wrote his fable, Candide. Dr Pangloss suffered calamity after calamity, stating nevertheless that this was the best of all possible worlds.

At the end of the tale, Dr Pangloss, advised that the best thing was to tend ones own little garden--in that time, most persons had zero way to change their social context.

At that time, most persons could not even think in terms of 'social context'.

Advice to 'tend ones own garden' only made sense if someone owned land and in Voltaire's time--very few persons did. Anyone who came out of calamity still owning land enough for a garden was still a privileged person who, at least in most Western societies, had higher status and more legal rights than a landless person.

that land. Land ownership and ownership of one's working time were luxuries.

Most people had to work other people's land as indentured servants or slaves.

Pangloss is similar to many Tibetan Buddhist advisors. If you are human, this is the best of all possible lives, because being human is ideal for realizing the dharma. So, no matter how a teacher loots you or betrays you, you are told 'this is the best of all possible lifetimes' because you are human, were exposed to the Dharma and are therefore, so much luckier than the benighted ones who never met the teacher at all. So stop complaining about the teacher and look to your own practice.

Today, Western practitioners of Tibetan Buddhism, who witness calamity after calamity perpetrated by self indulgent teachers, are told to 'look to your practice'---'Tibetan Buddhist speak for 'respond to calamity by cultivating your own little garden'.

In Tibetan Buddhism/Vajrayana, there is no inherant human dignity, no inherant claim to human rights in the modern sense.

Human life has only conditional dignity in Tibetan Buddhism/Vajrayana--as an opportunity to do Dharma practice. If you complain about a teacher who misbehaves, you lose your own claim to dignity because you are ceasing your Buddhist practice to express ingratitude to the teacher who exposed you to the Dharma.

The teachers bad behavior becomes irrelevant in the face of this.

except to see human life as an opportunity to practice the Dharma--and that means looking only to one's practice every time a monarchical teacher misbehaves.

There is no way to improve matters.

When Dharma is Fake Turning Citizens Into Peasants

(scroll up to read Rebuttal to Dr Pangloss)

[forum.culteducation.com]

Note:

Historian Norman E Cantor said this about the difference 14th century people's
mindset and our own, regarding attitudes toward power and leaders.


Quote:

That today we may look back on the English king Edward III of the fourteenth century as a kind of destructive and merciless force, while to nearly all articulate and literate contemporaries he was a constitutional king and very model of chivalry and aristocratic honor, illuminates a gap between our world and fourteenth century Europe.

Fourteenth century people lacked the moral catagories that could transcend traditional political and social roles. They lacked a critical value system that judged rulers by consequenes and not the formal catories in which their behavior was structured.

In the Wake of the Plague: The Black Death and the World It Made, page 39

In Vajrayrana there is this same lack--no moral catagories that transcend and stand above political and social roles. Rulers/teachers cannot be assessed by the human cost of their behavior because this evaluative capacity doesnt exist in the Vajrayana mindset.

Students are given a wealth of methods for self scrutiny. But there is nothing taught by which students can just as efficiently evaluate the behavior of teachers. You are taught in tantra to see your teacher as Buddha and in some cases be more grateful to the guru than to Buddha because, so Vajrayana reasoning goes, without the guru, one would not have heard of Buddha and the Dharma.

In Ngondro, which is a long term set of exercises, consisting of thousands of prostrations and visualized offerings) done in preparation for receiving tantric intitiation, one visualizes a Refuge Tree, in which the gurus of one's lineage are depicted. Those images will be deeply interrnalized into oneself by the time Ngondro is completed.

How then can one adopt an objective and critical stance in relation to a teacher who transmits this internalized lineage?

Ones earning capacity in wage earning money economy will be retained, but ones mind and emotions will be taken over by something that takes up a lot of RAAM space.




But we are citizens of a wealthy, participatory democracy, one whose actions affect other nations.

And most of us have an array of choices and opportunities beyond the comprehension of those in Voltaires time. So it is a tragedy that through junk Hindu and junk Buddhist dharma those of us who do have choices and are in participator democracy are being advised to adopt the submissive blinkers of feudal folk and stare only at our tiny bit of ground, and narrow our horizons.

Who benefits from getting us to think like peasants--concerned only with our tiny gardens?

Or our tiny personal Dharma practices?

Powerholders, thats who. By taking that advice, we dont examine the way THEY are setting and controlling the terms of debate and thought catagories for us.

Remember that infamous line from Lennon'ssong, the one that freaked folks out in the 70s?

"But you're still fucking peasants as far as I can see" (Working Class Hero)

Hi Jamgon.

I was wondering if you could answer the question I have posed to you twice now?

"So am I in error to think that divisive speech regarding race and religion, extra-marital affairs and indulging in sexual acts with students is wrong? Have I misunderstood something fundamental to Buddha’s teaching’s in holding the view that all the above is harmful? I’d be interested in hearing your views."

Also, it appears that DWB have been able to have the video of Nydahl suggesting his students carry pepper spray to use against agressive Muslims taken down from YouTube. If there is nothing to be afraid or ashamed of why have DWB taken steps to remove the videos, in your opinion?

Best wishes.

Steve