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~*~ k a t e ~*~

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suenam
@ ~*~ k a t e ~*~ Personally I find it important to consider whether Nydahl is practicing Buddhism or some kind of pantheistic religion.

I think it's perfectly clear that Ole Nydahl's racist, sexist and homophobic views are at complete odds with Buddhism. Also, real Buddhist teachers don't sexually and financially abuse their students.

This needs to be made clear. Quoting scriptures will just turn off those looking for information about this cult.

Firstly I think that many people with an interest in DWB will also have some interest in Buddhism.

It may well come under the topic headings of brainwashing, abuse, secrecy, and fraud (that you have listed above) to discover that Nydahl is teaching something fundamentally different to what is taught by other Buddhist Lamas.

The issues that you have listed would seem to be potentially valid criticisms of many secular organisations in our society. It does not necessarily follow from this that they are cults.

It seems to me that the issue of "worship" plays a huge part in differentiating both what constitutes a cult and what constitutes Buddhism.

Nydahl himself warns against the dangers of totalitarian religion, but his claim to know the objective absolute Truth would seem to lead him in precisely that direction - for me that helps to explain what puts him at odds with Islam, what makes DWB so hungry for status and wealth, and what enables these abuses of power which so clearly exist in that organisation.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/23/2012 07:54PM by suenam.

To whom it may concern:

This thread is about Ole Nydahl and Diamond Way.

Posts that are off topic will not be approved and/or deleted.

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jamgon
I agree. This thread in discussion was brought about by Suenam’s comments on a philosophical passage in Lama Ole’s book. She/he now appears to accept (in sharp contrast to her/his original stance) that Middle Way Buddhism does recognise a timeless essence which pervades all beings. Once we have mopped things up we will no doubt go back to discussing Lama Ole’s racism etc.

On the contrary, the fact that you quote from the Srimala Sutra tells me that you have misunderstood and only serves to confirm what I see in Nydahl's texts - that his teachings are not genuine Kagyu teachings.

Another gaffe by Nydahl in "Great Seal: Limitless Space & Joy: The Mahamudra View of Diamond Way Buddhism", page 1.

- "The path is a gradually increasing experience of richness and bliss that enlightenment makes permanent. It begins to manifest in short and less intense forms during the moments when no habits or expectations distract mind. Non-meditators may also taste some of this power during the free fall before the parachute opens or on a fast motorcycle, and everyone (hopefully) knows it from making love." (my emphasis)

Maybe Nydahl has convinced you that this is Buddhism when clearly it is not.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/23/2012 09:03PM by suenam.

Personally I haven't found any other Buddhist work which describes enlightenment as power in this way.

DWB members have been perceived as thrill-seeking, sex-mad egomaniacs, and Nydahl comes across as a power hungry and arrogant leader who quite happily takes advantage of a power differential to get his sexual kicks.

In the light of this sentence is this simply a coincidence?

@Suenam
Vajrayana Buddhism often works that way - and worse. See Trungpa forcing W.S. Mervin and Dana Naone to strip against their wills. As I said, Nydahl's behaviour is a symptom of a greater problem. But Kate is right, this isn't the place for that discussion, and we will probably have to agree to disagree. If you want to continue conversation on this topic, we should do so via PM.

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Sceptic Watcher
@Suenam
Vajrayana Buddhism often works that way - and worse. See Trungpa forcing W.S. Mervin and Dana Naone to strip against their wills. As I said, Nydahl's behaviour is a symptom of a greater problem. But Kate is right, this isn't the place for that discussion, and we will probably have to agree to disagree. If you want to continue conversation on this topic, we should do so via PM.

I'm not quite sure why you keep bringing up Trungpa. It seems clear to me that Nydahl is operating on the basis of his own pseudo-philosophy and is a symptom of nothing but his own ego.

If you or Kate wish to contribute something, then please do so - for me there is no discussion - Nydahl's writings are clearly divergent from Kagyu teachings.

From “Livejournal Buddhists Community”
[buddhistgroup.livejournal.com]

Quote from Ole Nydahl’s protagonist, blog participant named diamond_dorje:

“[…] How do I feel about the allegations of abuse? Well, I know the people that are making them, I know how they behaved that meant we had to kick them out of our centres, I know the people whose characters they attempt to assassinate, and I know that there were no protests, and there are no investigations, and there is no actual evidence presented anywhere because there is no truth in what they say. […]”

So here again someone has been kicked out of Diamond Way centers. It shows to me that the problem of eliminationism, ostracism and social exclusion is a common pattern. It’s not limited to UK and Ireland only.

And interesting comment of jewelsofthenile from the same blog:
“[…] when I left completely, I never thought I would have so much rejection from it's members. I thought many would still at least stay my friend even though I decided not "to practice" I can tell you I have one friend still from the hundreds of people I met and shared "amazing" experiences with. Sad. [..]”

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Sceptic Watcher
@Suenam
Vajrayana Buddhism often works that way

The aim of devotion is the natural state, Buddha-nature, rather than the personal opinions which act as defilements and obscure that nature. The Lama's accomplishment is the relinquishing of all views.

I think that for the most part the students are aware of what they are devoting themselves to.
The fact that many DWB students seem ready to defend Nydahl's opinions rather than dismissing them as inconsequential shows clearly where their focus lies.

[buddhistbookreviews.blogspot.com]

"When telephones and telepathy collide we need guidance; Mick Brown and Jeffrey Paine are engaging fellow-travelers, but neither has a map, and on this evidence we are only just starting to disentangle what the Tibetans brought with them out of their long seclusion."


That interest question you find at the end of the article Corboy posted here. I have my experiences with the magical, inhuman and archaic rituals they practise which are so unimagable that now one believes those even exist. The Trimondis are the best source for material about tantric-tibetan Lamaism and slowly, very slowly, their analysis influences other researchers. Believers are a bad source. Anyway.

Did you know Ole Nydahl achieved to close down Emma C. Blog about three days ago? At the same time two of my posts, the "Offener Brief an Ole Nydahl" and "Sexuelle Nötigung, versuchte Vergewaltigung und okkulte Gewalt durch hohe tibetische Lamas" in English:" Sexual assault, attempted rape and occult violence by high Tibetan Lamas". Curiosly enough they did not appeal at the Court who decided the interim injunction against me. They sent it to Google, put some quotes together which seemed to infringe the interim injunction and Google was forced to delete the posts. Why did they act this way? I am sure they would not have been successful by appealing at the Judge. Quite tricky!

I posted the story: [marte-micaela-riepe.blogspot.de]