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Samuel Sagan Clairvision
Posted by: media b ()
Date: July 21, 2007 03:07AM

Does anyone have any information about this group and its leader? Looks kosher but the evolution of the group replicates that of many cults.

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Re: Samuel Sagan Clairvision
Posted by: chipwrex ()
Date: January 12, 2009 11:08AM

Mmmh, it's a shame no one replied to that yet - I was wondering about the same thing.

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Re: Samuel Sagan Clairvision
Posted by: chrstabell ()
Date: March 01, 2010 02:24PM

I have found your interest in the clairvision school in the internet
I was involved in the school for several years
I had no background knowing about cults this is how i found these 2 emails I was curious what a cult was as I had experienced being in the school
There are several things about the school that were a little alarming which I will list
Firstly the school does a lot of meditation and meditation practices in pairs
These can be innocent activities but they have definate ways they want a person to think about themselves and the world which are a dogmatic
they dont make you follow them or the leader
but there are some black holes which are a dangerous to me
aggression can be very prevalent in their communication
you can leave at any time but if stay you must be careful
money is involved and your time is in demand they get you to do a lot of their work and you must want to do that or else it is not helpful to any one but the leader so he gets his books and cds videos done
he has a definate goal and uses the people to help him get his work done
as i said you can leave any time
but if you stay then there are demands its up to each person
but there are dangers to meditation which people might not be aware of and it can cause great distress and problems
you have to be very careful with meditation in pairs and about the talk that happens in and around the meditating between the people and grouos
if one does join the CVS careful be very aware
for me there is danger in the atmosphere conjured by the talk that happens from what they teach and how they teach it
Personally i think martial arts training is better for me less talk more action more centredness humility hard work that shows in your life that is my experience
there you have it

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Re: Samuel Sagan Clairvision
Posted by: chrstabell ()
Date: March 01, 2010 02:39PM

I have found this email about the CVS as I was involved with them for several years
i wrote a huge email to you but it got lost anyway
they do a lot meditating practices in pairs
basically it can be dangerous if you are not uo it you can get distressed and out of balance they demand a lot they get you to work for them for nothing BUT you can leave at anytime
its a long story but you have to be careful with what they teach and how it can make the change the way they talk
you can end up saying crazy stuff cause of what they teach
you have to be careful they have a whole system of beliefs including the history of mankind
too bad if it does not sit with
charles darwin might not like it
anyway the leader has strong goals you have to be careful to keep your own life in tact so as not to give all of your time to his goals and jobs abd books cds vidoes seminars talks tours etc
jesus gave to people his time knowledge and healing powers for free so did edgar cayce
they do not...........be careful time and MONEY is involved with this lot and nice outfits
the more fashionable you are the better.
give me budhha and martials arts anyday
oh and jesus and fresh air
I am serious oh and some laughter

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Re: Samuel Sagan Clairvision
Posted by: Subotai ()
Date: March 05, 2010 08:22AM

Hi chrstabell,

it's great that someone finally responded to these questions.
I wonder if you could write some more on the following topics:

Can you please elaborate on the agression issue? How is the agression being expressed? Is it directed at other participants and/or the individual itself and does it contain an element of verbal and/or emotional abuse?

Regarding the belief system that you mention, and that I assume is based on Sagan's books, is it used only metaphorical as a teaching tool or is it used in a literal sense, perhaps in order to directly influence the life's work of the participants?

Thank you in advance for some more clarification!

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Re: Samuel Sagan Clairvision
Date: March 08, 2010 06:27AM

Hey Guys,

I don't know what your involvement with Clairvision was chrstabell, but at least half of the things you say are just plain nonsense. I hope people reading these postings will not come to a decision based on one individuals replies to a question.

I have been doing meditation with Clairvision for over 5 years and they are definitely not a cult. Of course you pay for the courses you do. Just like everywhere else where you might be doing a course, even at university.


I am going to try to respond to some of the questions by subotai:

Bear in mind that these are my responses and in no way am i a spokesperson for the Clairvision school.

##How is the agression being expressed? Is it directed at other participants and/or the individual itself and does it contain an element of verbal and/or emotional abuse?

--Some of the processes used in the school involve an interactive practice called ISIS, which is aimed at sourcing emotional issues, including agression, but this in no way involves being abusive to participants (in fact this is a two person practice). The facilitators responsibility involves to help the client to see for themselves what lies underneath their issues, and involves no trickery or any kind of 'pushing' things onto the client.


##Regarding the belief system that you mention, and that I assume is based on Sagan's books, is it used only metaphorical as a teaching tool or is it used in a literal sense, perhaps in order to directly influence the life's work of the participants?

--The models used are used as an aid to facilitate direct experience of things, not ever taught as a dogma, and in fact as the process evolves and the participants reach more maturity, the model evolves and changes, to allow an expression of the deeper level of subtlety in their experience.

Please feel free to ask any more questions subotai. i am happy to answer them.

CME

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Re: Samuel Sagan Clairvision
Posted by: rrmoderator ()
Date: March 08, 2010 08:37AM

catmonkeyelephant:

How is Clairvision held accountable?

Is there any board certification, licensing board or anything that offers checks and balances?

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Re: Samuel Sagan Clairvision
Date: March 08, 2010 04:30PM

There is no board or anything like that. But I don't know how it would be helpful.

I don't think I understand how that would work. What checks can you have on meditating? Could you please explain, or give some example?

Thanks.

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Re: Samuel Sagan Clairvision
Posted by: character ()
Date: April 20, 2010 07:37PM

What's the reason behind it for no replies?

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Re: Samuel Sagan Clairvision
Posted by: happyperson ()
Date: September 20, 2010 10:18AM

Hi Chrstabell: I am interested in knowing where you were when you say you were involved with Clairvision. Were you at one of the conference centers; were you living there; were you studying on the outside. You referred to aggression being used. Can you tell me what kind of aggression was used?

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