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Re: Samuel Sagan Clairvision & IST Practitioners (Inner Space Techniques)
Posted by: grok ()
Date: June 16, 2022 10:00PM

LIES THAT CLAIRVISION TOLD ME - ASKING QUESTIONS

According to leaders in Clairvision, asking questions is "an important part of The Archive tradition" and they tell you to speak up and make it seem like what you have to share will somehow "contribute to the space."

I believed this at first, but again, the longer I was in the group it seemed like every time I would ask a question I would in some way be ridiculed and/or my question not really answered. After years or watching this happen to myself and others it became clear that only certain kinds of questions, and perhaps only from certain people, were really welcomed.

Clairvision can try to counter this claim of Clairvision being a cult by saying that they always encourage asking questions, but this is doesn't mean it's how things actually shake out in real life. I lost count of how many times I asked questions that were never answered, blown off, or I was made to feel like I was a stupid idiot for saying what I did.

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Re: Samuel Sagan Clairvision
Posted by: grok ()
Date: June 16, 2022 10:03PM

CLAIRVISION ROMANTICIZES SAVING SOMEONE'S SOUL

Another common theme I started to see in the school towards the end of my time there was romanticizing making people fall in love with you in order to "save them" or "bring them back to the light". This started after the Divine Madness books were released. Students would talk about how cool it would be to come into an incarnation where their mission was to make someone fall in love with them so they could ultimately save their soul. I remember thinking, wow, what an interesting concept! when this first came around, but the longer I sat with it, the more disturbing it became - mostly because I've seen how Clairvision people "do love" and how they "do relationships", and it seems to be that I would be more likely to have my soul lost forever from an encounter with a Clairvision/Archive person trying to make me fall in love with them in order to "save me" than I would be to actually "be saved."

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Re: Samuel Sagan Clairvision & IST Practitioners (Inner Space Techniques)
Posted by: grok ()
Date: June 16, 2022 10:10PM

WHAT CLAIRVISION SAYS ABOUT INTEGRITY

Something everyone needs to know about about Clairvision is their definition of the word "integrity." It has absolutely nothing to do with a dictionary definition of personal or professional integrity that one might initially think of.

Integrity in Clairvision world only means "the ability to hold spiritual fire". They talk about it with regards to your energetic spiritual structure (your subtle bodies) and their ability to hold the spiritual fire that's coming your way.

"Integrity" in Clairvision has absolutely nothing to do with personal or professional integrity or doing the right thing, or as Brene Brown says "choosing courage over comfort." To Clairvision it is more about intensity (which pretty much everything in Clairvision is about intensity if you haven't already figured this out). What intensity level of spiritual fire can you hold? The more intense the better. This is the Clairvision definition of integrity that everyone going in should really know. If you hear someone in Cv talking about "integrity" this is what they really mean.

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Re: Samuel Sagan Clairvision & IST Practitioners (Inner Space Techniques)
Posted by: grok ()
Date: June 16, 2022 10:18PM

CLAIRVISION AND "NBY"
Not Born Yesterday - What it Really Mean in the Clairvision School

One of the phrases that the Clairvision school uses a lot is "not born yesterday" or NBY. They say they want all their students to become NBY.

Yet at the same time, they don't want you to be NBY regarding things that go on in the school - you have to learn that as you go along. They won't tell you the answers to questions you might ask, and they certainly don't want you to know about some of the things that go on in the school at higher levels - this is very hidden, especially if you're still at entry-type levels of the school.

If you were to really be NBY about the Clairvision school, you would know and understand that:

-Politics (and especially sexual politics) run the world - and nothing different should be expected of people in the school. If you want to make your way up the ladder in the school and get special privileges, but sure to put your sexuality on the table for a higher up or admin person.

-If you and your higher up in the school break up, you may be forced to move off school property (I saw this happen a couple times) or I even know one student who was kicked out of the school after a break up with Samuel Sagan. Your relationship with a higher up won't save you forever, you should expect it to end at sometime.

-Some people will say whatever they need to in order to get you to do things for them, even those in the school who you might believe to be your spiritual friends.

-Just because an administrator or instructor says something is true doesn't mean it is. In fact, there are so many "policies" and "ways of being" that are simply not written down in Clairvision so they can change them at will or say "oh that's not in the space anymore". There is little to no consistency in anything that happens in Clairvision.

-If an admin person or instructor yells at you, you pretty much have to just take it. I was on the receiving end of this once and saw it happen to others as well. There is no accountability for anyone in the school.

-White privilege prevails in Clairvision. There are very few people of color in the Clairvision school. This is essentially a school for richer white people.

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Re: Samuel Sagan Clairvision
Posted by: grok ()
Date: June 16, 2022 10:20PM

More on "Divine Madness & Endless Love Vol 2":

The first book (there are two "books" or longer stories in this book) reads more like a high school boy's wet dream than a spiritual book. Our main character Malcolm (no doubt Samuel was imagining himself as Malcolm when he wrote this) seems to be the white knight, and rescues a bored housewife from her boring life and helps her awaken to her potential (of course through sexuality and drowning her as mentioned in an earlier post).

Huge messages in the book around sexuality come up. You can get an idea about it from quotes within the first 15 pages of the book:

"...there are two kinds of women: housewives and bad girls."

and there are only two kinds of men in this world:

"There are men who can make a bad girl happy in bed, and men who can't."

To me these are pretty brash statements, but I saw how many students took these to heart after the book was released. I feel like these two quotes pretty much sum up my experience with Clairvision sexuality teachings quite well.

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Re: Samuel Sagan Clairvision
Posted by: orangegrl ()
Date: June 16, 2022 11:08PM

Wow grok! To borrow a Clairvision phrase... that's a lot to unpack!

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Re: Samuel Sagan Clairvision & IST Practitioners (Inner Space Techniques)
Posted by: grok ()
Date: June 17, 2022 11:10PM

Clairvision IS NOT Trauma Informed or Trauma Sensitive

If anyone who has any association with the Clairvision school ever refers to themselves as "trauma informed" or "trauma sensitive" you need ask them exactly what they mean by that and exactly what kind of training and formal certifications they have received, because I never ever experienced any kind of trauma sensitivity either at the retreat centers or while working with their IST practitioners… If anything it was exactly the opposite.

What I experienced was IST practitioners who make you dig into your trauma experience and share it out loud with them in gross detail - sometimes over and over and over again. There were so many times where it felt like the IST practitioner was digging into me simply to satisfy their own morbid curiosity about my trauma rather than because it was something that would actually be helpful to me, but since they were the practitioner and I was the client, I gave into this.

IST practitioners are trained that in order to get through trauma, one must re-experience it, sometimes in full gory detail - sometimes in slow motion over and over and over even. This is in direct opposition to trauma informed, trauma sensitive care. It would be more accurate to call IST trauma-inducing or re-traumatizing than trauma informed in any way shape or form.

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Re: Samuel Sagan Clairvision & IST Practitioners (Inner Space Techniques) Posted by: grok ()
Posted by: grok ()
Date: June 17, 2022 11:12PM

Intensity is a theme in the Clairvision school. The courses are called "Intensives", and as previously mentioned, when you go to these courses you should expect to be in course related activities from about 8am-10pm everyday. Seriously intense! And this generally is what people who go are looking for.

People in Clairvision seem to love intensity, it fact sometimes it felt to me like it was all about intensity. This can be really appealing for people with trauma who think that normal everyday life is boring and want/need that extra jolt of chemicals in the body to get a rush. This is a very common issue with people who have experienced trauma.

From Chapter 2 of "The Body Keeps the Score Brain, Mind, and Body in the Healing of Trauma" by Bessel Van Der Kolk, MD:

"ADDICTED TO TRAUMA: THE PAIN OF PLEASURE AND THE PLEASURE OF PAIN
One of the things that struck my colleague Mark Greenberg and me when we ran therapy groups for Vietnam combat veterans was how, despite their feelings of horror and grief, many of them seemed to come to life when they talked about their helicopter crashes and their dying comrades. (Former New York Times correspondent Chris Hedges, who covered a number of brutal conflicts, entitled
his book War Is a Force That Gives Us Meaning. Many traumatized people seem to seek out experiences that would repel most of us, and patients often
complain about a vague sense of emptiness and boredom when they are not angry, under duress, or involved in some dangerous activity.

My patient Julia was brutally raped at gunpoint in a hotel room at age sixteen. Shortly thereafter she got involved with a violent pimp who prostituted her. He regularly beat her up. She was repeatedly jailed for prostitution, but she always went back to her pimp. Finally her grandparents intervened and paid for an intense rehab program. After she successfully completed inpatient treatment, she started working as a receptionist and taking courses at a local college. In her sociology class she wrote a term paper about the liberating possibilities of prostitution, for which she read the memoirs of several famous prostitutes. She gradually dropped all her other courses. A brief relationship with a classmate quickly went sour—he bored her to tears, she said, and she was repelled by his boxer shorts. She then picked up an addict on the subway who first beat her up and then started to stalk her. She finally became motivated to return to treatment when she was once again severely beaten.

Freud had a term for such traumatic reenactments: “the compulsion to repeat.” He and many of his followers believed that reenactments were an unconscious attempt to get control over a painful situation and that they eventually could lead to mastery and resolution. There is no evidence for that theory—repetition leads only to further pain and self-hatred. In fact, even reliving the trauma repeatedly in therapy may reinforce preoccupation and fixation. "

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Re: Samuel Sagan Clairvision & IST Practitioners (Inner Space Techniques)
Posted by: mesche ()
Date: June 18, 2022 01:36AM

And it makes it so hard to leave. I still feel like I have withdrawal syndrome from time to time.




grok Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "Cult leaders understand the power of charisma,
> the attractiveness of transcendental ideology, and
> what it takes to make vulnerable people feel like
> every question is answerable with jargon,
> intrusive eye contact, and deeply deceptive shit."
>
> [podcasts.apple.com]
>
> [conspirituality.net]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/18/2022 01:37AM by mesche.

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Recommendation, survivor groups
Posted by: mesche ()
Date: June 18, 2022 01:45AM

I recommend other survivors of the school to seek out groups that are not specifically for former members of the school. And to not tell anyone who has been in the school about it. It can be very healing.

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