Current Page: 8 of 8
Re: Samuel Sagan Clairvision
Posted by: oneclickwonder ()
Date: September 22, 2021 10:47AM

mesche Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There's a lot of information to look for out
> there. I have very bad experiences with providing
> scientific explanations to students of the school
> and won't do that again. Seeing is believing,
> right? I suggest you search for scientific
> articles about whatever type of experience you
> would like to know more about.
>
> I have for instance looked into research on how
> cults and cult leaders manipulate, what prolonged
> eye contact can do and what type of people might
> be more vulnerable to it, what the power of
> suggestion is and how it influences our memories.
> Brainwashing and past life therapy too. And a lot
> more. It has been a very interesting and
> liberating journey for me. For others it might be
> very upsetting.
>
> If you need a place to start, looking up past life
> therapy in Wikipedia might be interesting.
>
> I cherish some of the spiritual experiences I had
> in the school even though I think there are very
> human explanations to them. They don't have to be
> devine to be valuable or part of my lifes story.
> But I won't subject myself to the work in any form
> anymore.
>
>
>
> oneclickwonder Wrote:
> -------------------------------------------------------
> > I actually tend to believe that there is a
> > spiritual level to reality and have tended to
> > before my time at CV. I found the experience of
> > seeing purple lights and vibration in the eye
> to
> > be intense as I did with a number of other
> > techniques from the school.
> >
> > I'm not sure what scientific explanations
> people
> > have for the experiences I have had but I would
> > like to hear more about that.


fair enough. ill give it a look. I don't really feel like anything they taught at CV is true. I just know those exercises produced SOMETHING. now what that something is and whether or not those experiences have anything to do with anything spiritual is another matter all together.

and hey, it could all have been hallucinations designed by a very skilled master of subliminal suggestion... though that would have to be one hell of a trick to pull. I mean I tried this stuff out of the awakening third eye book, so no music in the background and no real deep trances induced by an IST practitioner or drugs in the water at the 101 when I first started experiencing results.



I still to this day wonder what produced those results...

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Samuel Sagan Clairvision
Posted by: oneclickwonder ()
Date: September 22, 2021 10:57AM

metanoia Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> oneclickwonder Wrote:
> -------------------------------------------------------
> > I actually tend to believe that there is a
> > spiritual level to reality and have tended to
> > before my time at CV. I found the experience of
> > seeing purple lights and vibration in the eye
> to
> > be intense as I did with a number of other
> > techniques from the school.
> >
> > I'm not sure what scientific explanations
> people
> > have for the experiences I have had but I would
> > like to hear more about that.
>
>
> This is the kind of thing I'm talking about, and I
> noticed it in the CV practitioners I met as
> well--sure, you might see purple lights and feel
> vibrations, but so what? One of the CV
> practitioners talked about seeing sacred
> geometries while meditating. That's lovely, but
> she seemed to attribute meaning to it, when the
> vast majority of meditation approaches I've been
> exposed to explicitly discourage indulging or
> attaching to experiences like that--they're not
> intrinsically a sign of development or that things
> are going well. I feel like there is this tendency
> to say 'well I saw colors, etc. etc. so this must
> be the real deal,' but there are all kinds of
> perceptual and energetic experiences that can
> happen that don't have anything to do with
> enlightenment (if you buy into that idea at all).
> Zen even has a term for them--'makyo' and students
> are explicitly encouraged to pay no attention to
> them.
>
> I got the impression that there was a lot of
> spiritual ego going on as a result of these
> experiences--feeling like CV was superior to most
> other approaches, a sense of having special powers
> or abilities, etc.

ya, I agree with what you've said here.

I feel that there were many who attributed meaning to the things they saw or felt and that it was quite common... with no rhyme or reason at all.


PLEASE NOTE THAT I NEVER SAID THE EXTOLLED RESULTS OF THE EXERCISES OR CLIAMS BY THE SCHOOL ARE TRUE. just wanted to put that out there.

also, in contrast to that possible assumption, not that I suspect anyone here was making it, I have doubts about the school as well and particularly find the comment about spiritual ego to be very true.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Samuel Sagan Clairvision
Posted by: grok ()
Date: September 23, 2021 10:06AM

Thanks for that additional explanation, mesche, that helps me understand a bit more what you're saying


metanoia Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I got the impression that there was a lot of
> spiritual ego going on as a result of these
> experiences--feeling like CV was superior to most
> other approaches, a sense of having special powers
> or abilities, etc.


I found this to be absolutely true in the Clairvision school - huge amounts of elitism. Huge feelings of superiority, feeling like they knew the best and only way to look at things, the way they are doing things is so special and could not possibly be reproduced or replicated or explained to the commoner. You are special if you get to be in the Clairvision school. Spiritual narcissism at its finest.

It's worth noting that a lot of people find their way into the Clairvision school via Karen Kingston, who has a bit of her own cult following and massive elitist attitude about herself. I felt like people in the Clairvision school (and many who were not in the school as well) treated her as much like a guru as they did Samuel.

I admit I was one of the people who hopped on the bandwagon and took some of Karen Kingston's clutter clearing courses back in the day. I had thought her books were good, but I was really unimpressed with her courses. She holds herself up to be this amazing expert in the field, but I really got more out of courses with certified professional organizers than I did with Kingston. The way she taught her courses it was like her way or the highway, which is really not helpful when it comes to time management and other clutter clearing. Although she's done it for years, I don't feel like Karen Kingston is the big expert she claims to be.

I had a friend in the CV school who did the courses at the same time I did. She had wanted to take the clutter clearer training with Kingston and said the course seemed more like you were paying to audition for Kingston's approval to move forward rather than the course itself being helpful. My friend was ultimately rejected from the training because she was "too fat". She was a bit overweight (but definitely not obese), and this seemed like a weird elitist thing from Kingston as well because my friend met all the qualifications required.

I think it's interesting that Kingston claims to have coined the term "space clearing" but one of Kingston's teachers, Denise Linn, also claims to have coined the term.

Last I knew Kingston still required people to go through years of Clairvision training before she will train them for her clutter clearing and space clearing techniques, even though I don't believe she's been active in the Clairvision school since around the time Samuel died.

Fair warning to not take Karen Kingston's word as an expert on much, or at least seriously question what she puts forward in addition to what the CV school puts out. I've seen these same abusive behaviors that are referenced above coming from Karen Kingston's clutter clearers and space clearers as well... They are not exempt from acting out in ways described above.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Samuel Sagan Clairvision
Posted by: metanoia ()
Date: September 23, 2021 11:55PM

grok Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thanks for that additional explanation, mesche,
> that helps me understand a bit more what you're
> saying
>
>
> metanoia Wrote:
> -------------------------------------------------------
> > I got the impression that there was a lot of
> > spiritual ego going on as a result of these
> > experiences--feeling like CV was superior to
> most
> > other approaches, a sense of having special
> powers
> > or abilities, etc.
>
>
> I found this to be absolutely true in the
> Clairvision school - huge amounts of elitism.
> Huge feelings of superiority, feeling like they
> knew the best and only way to look at things, the
> way they are doing things is so special and could
> not possibly be reproduced or replicated or
> explained to the commoner. You are special if you
> get to be in the Clairvision school. Spiritual
> narcissism at its finest.


Good to know that this seems systemic rather than an isolated experience on my end.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Samuel Sagan Clairvision
Posted by: mesche ()
Date: September 25, 2021 09:51PM

To most of you in here it might not be a surprice.

Colors, sounds, shapes, feelings, silence, agitation, energetic movements, feeling expanded, warm, cold, feeling traumas emerging, grief, joy, feeling a benevolent presence and so on. Even experiencing nothing at all. There is nothing unusual about any of it but I didn't know that until I met students of other schools of meditation.

I thought I was protected by a unique archive space because of the experiences and the explanations for them. It felt nice and safe for a while.

For a long time I didn't think it would be a good idea to look into other peoples experiences, I wonder who gave me that idea because normally I am very curious about how stuff works.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/25/2021 09:55PM by mesche.

Options: ReplyQuote
Current Page: 8 of 8


Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.
This forum powered by Phorum.