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Re: Samuel Sagan Clairvision
Posted by: mesche ()
Date: February 26, 2022 03:46AM

I'm sorry that happened. I can't believe how normalized behavior like that becomes in so many religious and spiritual schools. Did you tell anyone at the school about it? How did they react? How are you doing now?

LB_Slayer Wrote:
> I got almost raped at clairvision. I was touched
> physically without my permission by an IST
> practitioner in a session which violated my
> boundaries of consent, boundaries that I clearly
> stated before the session to the teacher and
> practitioner.
> I don't know if I'm safe to say this, I don't know
> if they'll be able to track me because I'm the
> only victim, I don't know if they'll blackmail me
> because of the private things that I said in the
> LISt sessions that I did with them.
> I don't know if I'll ever be safe.
> maybe they'll fuck me over because of the things I
> said here, maybe my life will get fucked because
> of it. I don't know, but I do know that Hiram
> raped the 16 year old Virginia and murdered her in
> Bleeding Sun before he practically married her in
> the afterlife with her father's permission
> and that Dwarkanath Tagore maried "the nine years
> old but extremely good-looking Digambari Devi."
> and if that doesn't sound like rape of a child
> then I don't know what to say to you...
> I was a young woman when I went to clairvision

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Re: Samuel Sagan Clairvision
Posted by: mesche ()
Date: February 26, 2022 04:04AM

I've had to take a hard look at my own involvement in the school as well. There was abuse I didn't have the courage to adress or report. A woman was knocked out and I didn't call the police because I was gaslighted so hard I couldn't think but honestly also because I was so scared of being kicked out. Was I abusive myself? Why did I believe it when others told all there was ever wrong with the school was people like me? Why did I belive jungian or freudian psychology could tell me the truth about myself just because som jerk pulled it out of his ass to pursuade me I secretly wanted all sorts of horrible stuff to happen? That stunt was pulled on others as well. Like the ones who did so many sessions they believed their debilitating anxiety of thinking bad thoughts was about some deeply buried desire about wanting to do evil.

orangegrl Wrote:

> Last year I heard from an old "friend" (or at
> least someone I used to know pretty well) from CV
> who told me her own story of what had happened to
> her ath the hands her own IST practitioner that
> made me need to seriously revisit my own
> involvement with the group and speak up even
> thought I'd been away from the school for quite
> sometime. I have no idea if things are getting
> worse there or if people are finally feeling
> empowered enough to speak up against it, but I
> hope others continue to share, knowing they are
> not alone and that their sharing helps those who
> actually do their research before joining such
> groups, and perhaps even cause people who are
> current students to reevaluate their own
> involvement with such an abusive group.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/26/2022 04:07AM by mesche.

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Re: Samuel Sagan Clairvision
Posted by: orangegrl ()
Date: February 28, 2022 04:46AM

I agree mesche - looking back at my time in Clairvision and how my behaviors changed while I was there and some of the things I did to other students that includes many of the things others have highlighted in earlier posts - pushing people too hard in IST, being aggressive in interactions with other students thinking it would help them move through something in their process, being cruel because if felt like it was "in the space", etc...I look back and think, "would I have done that before I entered the Clairvision school?" and the answer is almost always, no. I see how I allowed myself to be steeped in the cruel culture of Clairvision and how I acted out towards people who were supposed to be my fellow seekers and even friends. I feel some regret about this, but I'm trying to have compassion for myself since I've seen how the CV indoctrination process works and how I got hooked into it. I've had to take alot of responsibility for my actions...some other former students I have apologized to...and some who are still students... well, perhaps part of me wants to apologize, but it feels like anyone who's still a part of the school wouldn't "get it" if I did, so I haven't really tried. I also saw alot of really questionable things happen between students or between students and leaders in the school that raised my hackles and made me think I wanted to say something, but I also did not. I attribute that to the "social proof" weapon of influence that Robert Cialdini outlines so brilliantly in his book. Basically, we as humans tend to defer to what the majority of the other humans are doing around us when we don't know what to do. I see now how that happened multiple times to me at Clairvision retreats...I wanted to speak up but didn't because it seemed like whatever I had a problem with was "acceptable" to everyone else around me. I thought (or was led to believe) there was something wrong with ME for thinking the person being abused, yelled at, etc needed help - it was MY samskara that needed to be dealt with because I was having a reaction to someone being hurt. Here's a video where Robert Cialdini explains this concept of social proof: []

I lost alot of friends I previously had outside of CV because of my buying into the CV culture as the way for "real" spiritual seekers, and even some connections to my family. There's been alot of rebuilding of relationships that I've had to do because of my poor actions and words while I was a part of the school. I had someone recently accuse me of being abusive towards them, and I really had to take a step back and look at that. When I did, I could see how the CV programming was still somewhat working in me even these years later. I don't believe that spiritual growth has to come with abusiveness, but in Clairvision, it's standard, even expected and encouraged.

mesche Wrote:
> I've had to take a hard look at my own involvement
> in the school as well. There was abuse I didn't
> have the courage to adress or report. A woman was
> knocked out and I didn't call the police because I
> was gaslighted so hard I couldn't think but
> honestly also because I was so scared of being
> kicked out. Was I abusive myself? Why did I
> believe it when others told all there was ever
> wrong with the school was people like me? Why did
> I belive jungian or freudian psychology could tell
> me the truth about myself just because som jerk
> pulled it out of his ass to pursuade me I secretly
> wanted all sorts of horrible stuff to happen? That
> stunt was pulled on others as well. Like the ones
> who did so many sessions they believed their
> debilitating anxiety of thinking bad thoughts was
> about some deeply buried desire about wanting to
> do evil.

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Re: Samuel Sagan Clairvision
Posted by: orangegrl ()
Date: March 24, 2022 05:33AM

I came across a post by corboy in another thread that is very relevant to this discussion about Clairvision. I'm posting the bit that is most relevant here, but if you want to read the whole thread, it is here: []

I wish I had known more about abuse in psychotherapy circles and much of the information in this article before I got involved with Clairvision - these are the kind of things they try to twist around on you at Clairvision - it's "normal" or "just part of The Work" if your IST practitioner hurts you or does something that would be considered unethical in "traditional" (aka regulated) psychotherapy. I was kinda blown away when I read this post as to how much it applies to Clairvision... so in hopes that this helps anyone else going through the pain of leaving, or thinking about leaving (or perhaps not joining in the first place...) I'm reposting:

"Many years ago, Temerlin published some journal articles on features of psychotherapy cults. He and his co authors went undercover to observer various groups.

This article, published by Temerlin in 1982 is one of the earliest articles on psychotherapy cults and remains one of the best. It is all the more remarkable because here, Temerlin investigated situations in which practicing psychotherapists themselves became entangled in psychotherapeutic cults.


Psychotherapy cults: An iatrogenic perversion.
Temerlin, Maurice K.; Temerlin, Jane W. Psychotherapy: Theory, Research & Practice, Vol 19(2), Sum 1982, 131-141. doi: 10.1037/h0088425


"Conducted clinical observations of 5 teachers of psychotherapy and 26 of their patients, who themselves were practicing psychotherapists, which showed that psychotherapy may be misused to produce cults.

It is suggested that these psychotherapists produced cults by failing to maintain professional boundaries with their patients.

They treated their friends, students, lovers, relatives, employees, and colleagues and brought them together to form cohesive, psychologically incestuous groups of which they were the leader.

They did not consider their patients' idealization of them to be a transference, to be understood as part of the treatment, but used it to encourage submission, obedience, and adoration, as in religious cults.

Patients became "true believers," as described by E. Hoffer (1951), with totalistic patterns of thought, increased dependence, and paranoia. Both therapist and patients became trapped in a closed system that encouraged mutual exploitation and corruption. (48 ref) (PsycINFO Database Record (c) 2010 APA, all rights reserved)"

In short, the students or patients were shifted from democratic, evidence based thinking into True Believer thinking--to benefit a needy leader.

Temerlin noted also that none of the groups had a clean and clear fee for service arrangement.

Here are some posts up on the message board referring to Temerlin and other people's publications.


More recent material has been written on the subject of psychotherapy cults by Margaret Singer.

This entire message board has been up and running for 9 years and is searchable. The way to do it is to select the 'all dates' option so that all 9 years are covered in the search.

What is difficult is that one has to learn a lot about how ethical therapists maintain boundaries, and thats something a lot of us are not told. Its different with sports.

Many people watch baseball and know the rules, even if they have never been ball players themselves. That means even most spectators are well aware if someone is breaking the rules. If the umpire fails to function, you can bet that the people in the stands, the news commentators and journalists will all yell 'Foul!'

But because its done behind closed doors and because many counselees dont know the rules real therapists go by, they cant tell if someone is tossing foul balls.

Here is a full article describing one such psychotherapy cult in which theapists and clients were members.

An former member of a psychotherapy cult and an ttorney who later represented one of the clients is quoted as saying:

"One of the things you have to remember is that this is not just a random group of people,'' Diane points out. "Almost everyone got into it because they sought out counseling, and most of the people sought counseling because their families were dysfunctional. These were not people whose lives had been great and then suddenly they lost their job. The self-esteem has been eroded, belief systems were always a little bit shaky, norms are a little bit shaky. For me, I always had feelings of needing a family, wanting a family. So you find your way into counseling and what seems like a family, a wonderful family."

All of which makes people in therapeutic communities like this one particularly vulnerable to what the cult literature calls "thought reform" -- the subtle and gradual remaking of a group's understanding of the world. John Winer, a lawyer who specializes in psychological malpractice, puts it this way: "If the patient is being encouraged to act like a child, they really are like a child -- a child with an abusive parent. Most of the patients that have been abused by therapists had been abused as children. They've lost the ability to recognize abusive situations. They're sitting ducks."

THe above is a tiny quote from a much longer and quite excellent article, which can be read here. Had that article not been published in a small circulation, local newspaper in the pre-Internet age, no one would ever have known about this.

[The article mentioned is no longer accessible via the link previously provided]

Corboy note: A sitting duck is a mother duck who is, by instinct, unable to leave her nest because she is sitting upon eggs or young nestlings. She feels fear when aware of the hunter, but is kept there by maternal instinct. She is glued to the spot.

The ancient rules of sportsmanship forbid killing a nesting/sitting bird for that reason--their instinct keeps them from being able to make a quick and free decision to flee.

Human beings, in transferance to a therapist or guru are similarly chained. Their agency is hampered, in this case by the crisis that led them to seek counseling and by the transferance trust placed in the therapist or guru. .

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Re: Samuel Sagan Clairvision & IST Practitioners (Inner Space Techniques)
Posted by: grok ()
Date: June 15, 2022 11:36PM

I feel really fortunate to have finally found a therapist since I realized that I had been involved with a cult (the cult of Clairvision). It's worth noting that the reason I started therapy was because I wanted to deal with the trauma that I could never seem to get to the bottom of with the Clairvision IST method, despite years of IST sessions. After going through proper therapy (aka with an actual licensed professional, not someone who just claims to know about these things without the education to back it up) it's pretty clear to me why IST doesn't really work when it comes to trauma.

Since I posted last year, I've had a number of former Clairvision students contact me both here on this forum and outside of it. This is a more widespread issue than I first realized.... and I see how CV made me believe it was just my problem (not a problem with the school).

I've since learned that a number of people have tried to make suggestions about how to not traumatize or abuse people or how to otherwise improve the school, but essentially all these suggestions have fallen on deaf ears. The Clairvision School has no intention of changing anything that it does because it believes the school is just fine the way it is. Clairvision is not a democracy - it's a theocracy plain and simple. Only certain people who have the ear of the Divine (according to them of course) are making the decisions here.

It seems like there have been a number of people who posted here who had a hard time after leaving who didn't get the support they really needed, and a number of people who haven't posted here as well. This is the reason I'm posting again. I had really wanted to just be done with this whole Clairvision business, but going through therapy myself with this issue has brought to light how many others may be dealing with this too, and it's my wish to provide knowledge and resources for those who might be struggling with this.

I wish I had the bandwidth and wherewithal to create a Clairvision Survivors support group, but I don't. So I figure the next best thing would be to post here in hopes of helping those who are either thinking about getting out or those who have gotten out and still not sure what the hell happened and how to move forward.

My therapist was so insightful and has helped me put the pieces together of WHY Clairvision should be considered a cult and to help me understand how and why I got hooked into their lies. I want to share some of those revelations in hopes of helping anyone else out there who is still involved with Clairvision who is thinking about leaving, or needs that little "ah-ha" moment to push them towards leaving. Maybe sharing will also prevent potential new recruits from joining....

more to come...

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Re: Samuel Sagan Clairvision & IST Practitioners (Inner Space Techniques), Karen Kingston
Posted by: grok ()
Date: June 15, 2022 11:49PM

How the Clairvision Indoctrination Process Works

Most people first learn about the Clairvision school through a friend or family member or through Karen Kingston. Many will be referred to either an IST practitioner or Awakening the Third Eye (ATE) workshop to help them with whatever issue they feel blocked around in their lives.

Many IST practitioners put themselves out in the world as some kind of "coach" or "consultant"; I've also started to hear the title "sexologist" used by IST practitioners. Many IST practitioners are also clutter clearers or space clearers trained by Karen Kingston, so it's likely you won't even hear the phrase "IST practitioner" before you start seeing them. Then it turns out they want you to do this IST "meditation" process with them, and since your friend/family member recommended it, you trust them.

Some people hear about the Awakening the Third Eye (ATE) workshops first that Clairvision offers around the world in many major cities. Either way, people usually start in a basic workshop or with a "coach" (aka IST practitioner). Which ever comes first, the other will usually come second - if you started with an IST practitioner, you'll then be referred to an ATE workshop; if you started with an ATE workshop, you'll then be referred to work with an IST practitioner to further your process.

People often see great results with these first sessions and/or workshops, so when they are then encouraged to go do an IST 101 course at one of the Clairvision retreat centers, it seems like the next natural thing to do. If Clairvision wasn't offering something of at least some value, no one would stick with it, so it's key new people have good experiences early on.

You may also notice that all the instructors they put in charge of these ATE courses are usually quite attractive. Someone mentioned above about Robert Cialdini's 6 Weapons of Influence earlier (another good book to read about how you may have been influenced by this group), and Clairvision pretty much uses them all in their indoctrination process, including the attractiveness weapon. Take a good look at the people they put in front of you. Whether you realize (or believe) it or not, being attractive makes people more instantly likable (seriously, google it or read Cialdini's book, it's a real thing), that's why CV puts all the good looking people at the front of their courses.

Clairvision also uses emotional contagion. I didn't realize this till working with a therapist, but essentially what "passing the space" (a phrase used all the time in CV) is, is the manipulation of the emotional contagion factor. I found myself trying to "pass the space" in a therapy session. The therapist asked what I thought I was doing and then identified that I was trying to use emotional contagion to get him to understand what I was saying. Emotional contagion isn't always bad, but it can be abused, and I see how going through the Clairvision trainings I was taught ways to get people to do what I wanted through the emotional contagion factor. "Passing the space" is simply emotional contagion, but they make you believe it's something more spiritual than that. It makes you feel like what you're experiencing is more real or important/spiritual than it is.

As mentioned in earlier posts, people who staff for the IST 101 courses hold their energy differently, and all the aggression and abuse that normally goes on there is hidden from the 101 students.

Again, many people have what they think are really big and amazing experiences at their 101 because they have never done any kind of cathartic practices before, and it feels really good, and feels like something is being released. Instructors also highly praise them for the work they are doing and offer all kinds of suggestions that seem to work - you should consider this love bombing, another common phenomenon in cults. So students think they are making such great progress, and then either sign up for the IST Focus course that usually happens right after the 101 course, or they make plans to come back an attend an IST Focus course at a later date.

It should be mentioned that the 101 and the IST Focus courses have the group confessional thing going on (big cult red flag) - they break you into smaller groups where you're supposed to share "your process" that's unfolding during the course with the idea that everyone else will help support you.

They may tell you that sharing with the group is always optional (last I knew they had that posted on their website to help people to believe they have some choice in the matter), but the thing is they then shame you for not sharing. They will say things like you are "crashing the space of the course" or that "something really special happens when everyone shares" and use this kind of manipulation to get you to share things that you maybe did not want to. There's a lot of peer pressure in these groups to share. So they can say all they want that you don't have to share, but you have to overcome extreme peer pressure in order to do that.

The more I went to these courses, the more these felt like you were just supposed to expose yourself and make yourself more and more vulnerable the way the instructor wanted. Clairvision talks a lot about making yourself vulnerable as the path to awakening, so since you want to awaken, you openly share all your big stuff that's coming up.

Perhaps you don't realize, but the instructors are taking note of these things to use on you later. As I was in the school longer and longer I started to overhear conversations among instructors and other IST practitioners about clients/students in their courses. There's a huge confidentiality issue here. They make you think it's so they can help you, but the longer I was there the more I felt like the stuff I had shared was used like a weapon against me.

Take a really good look at anything you sign for Clairvision - it is all about protecting the organization, not you! There is absolutely nothing in anything you sign about IST practitioners or people in the school protecting you or your privacy or caring about your general well-being, unlike licensed therapists. I've had my email address and phone number given out by admin/community leaders/school members to people I didn't' want to have that information on more than one occasion - if they can't even keep that private, what do you think it going to happen with all the vulernable information you share with the group or instructors? I heard the group chatter by supposed high-ranking people in the organization - you WILL be talked about and your information shared with whoever they think is appropriate, and you have no say in the matter.

I once went through and looked at everything I had signed for CV and I realized that it never ever included anything that protected me - the only protections were offered to the school. The short version here is that you as an individual don't matter, the only thing that matters is the survival of the Clairvision School and its practices. I may make a whole other separate post about this issue at a later date, but the truth is Clairvision does not care about you or your mental or physical health. I was injured on school property more than once and am still dealing with the fallout from not being properly treated afterwards. You have little if any legal protections once you sign away your life to them.

But I digress, more on the indoctrination process....

During the Focus courses, you start to see a little bit more - you might see people being aggressive, but you've already had such good experiences and big releases at the 101, so maybe you don't pay so much attention to it, or you've been "so deep in your process" that you're not paying as much attention to all the things going on around you. Plus they utilize the "social proof" aspect someone mentioned in a previous post to normalize the abuse going on (this is another weapon of influence according to Cialdini) - no one else is reacting to this, so why should I? In fact "not reacting" is so highly prized and made to seem like an accolade to enlightenment that you do your best not to react to anything weird that might be going on around you.

Keep in mind that meditation for long periods and practices like IST are mind altering practices, which means that your critical thinking skills may have been suspended - especially towards the end of the retreat when you've been doing this for many days in a row for many hours per day. So even though they (the staff/instructors/etc) tell you that "you're always in control" and "You always have the option to say STOP", you're no longer in fully touch with your rational thinking mind, and this is what they are counting on. CV tells you this is a good thing - they talk a lot about getting out of your OMC - your ordinary mental consciousness. They make it seem like you're getting out of your own way, but what you're really doing is getting your critical thinking mind out of THEIR way, so they can continue to tear you down, reprogram you with their own system of beliefs and make you think that this is the way to spiritual freedom. You have to break down all your samskaras otherwise you're just reacting.

By this time you've accepted a lot of their language and that "things will have to get worse before they get better." You're told that you need to "be comfortable with being uncomfortable" (typical line these days in many New Age and self help circles). You're told it's better to never start this process than to not finish it (which will take years and years - in fact you should expect to do this for the rest of your life).

You start to get used to being torn apart and even think that you're making progress because you feel so shitty all the time - likely your IST practitioner is praising you for going so deep in your process, etc. You may find at this point that you're "in my shit" or "deep in my process" pretty much all the time. If you can just do more IST, all will be revealed and you can "pop" this damn samskara if you can just "put your Will into it."

Then after attending 2 IST courses you're allowed to take the Thunderwand course - this is their "advanced" meditation essentially. By this point, perhaps you've had a lot of good experiences, maybe the practices are working for you. Again, as I mentioned earlier, the Thunderwand course is where they take things to the next level and tell you that from this point forward you shouldn't let anyone outside of the Clairvision school do anything to your energy. No more chiropractors or massage therapists or any other kind of energy work for you! This will mess up your energy according to them, thus it creates a dependence on the school - you always need someone in the school to help work on your energy.

By this point you've probably also heard the phrase "making The Work work". Like many other cult-like groups, Clairvision refers to doing the work of the Clairvision school as "doing The Work".

In order to advance to the next level, which is their "Wave" courses or "Virtual School" classes you have to be a part of one of the small group meditation practice groups, called "choirs". Here's another point where they make you dependent on the school - you can't really "do The Work" without being in one of these groups according to lead instructors. And simply doing the practices from the Third Eye book or workshop isn't enough, you must be "deconstructing" yourself and your samskaras because if you don't, the practices won't work as well.

These choirs are made up of fellow students who are probably just as dedicated to making The Work work as you are, but they mostly are people who don't have any psychological education or background either. As I told my therapist about these groups, he remarked that it sounded like the school was encouraging just throwing a group of people together who had little to no emotional intelligence or communication skills, telling them to just "be honest" with each other about extreme and big emotional issues without anyone who had real psychological knowledge about these areas or how to address them in a safe way.

I watched so many choirs go round and round in circles trying to help each other with "their processes" that ultimately were just hurtful if not completely harmful. The school gives very little direction about how to do choirs except to say that you have to be in one and you have to be doing process work to really "make The Work work." And sometimes instructors do give direction about choirs, and often that information is different from year to year or even from course to course, oftentimes the information about choirs directly conflicted with what another instructor said.

By the time you get to the "Wave" or "Virtual School" (VS) courses, you're hooked into the work. I heard a lot of people refer to themselves as being "hooked" by The Work. By this time you will be fluent in the language of Clairvision, much of which is clearly defined and available for free download on their website - A Language to Map Consciousness.

Welcome to being indoctrinated in the Clairvision School!

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Re: Samuel Sagan Clairvision & IST Practitioners (Inner Space Techniques)
Posted by: grok ()
Date: June 16, 2022 02:19AM

Books, articles, podcast, and shows that were recommended to me to help me understand the processes cults like Clairvision take you through to hook you, as well as stuff that just plain felt like Clairvision style of "spirituality":

Take Back Your Life - by Janja Lalich
also lots more info on her website:

The BITE Model Of Authoritarian Control:
Undue Influence, Thought Reform, Brainwashing, Mind Control, Trafficking And The Law
A dissertation submitted by Steven Hassan
downloadable here:

Influence: The Psychology of Persuasion- by Robert Cialdini

Decision Making Confidence website: []
(put together by a former cult second-hand-to-the-leader who found his way out)

Steven Hassan BITE model - list download

What Makes a Cult handout - []

Are You, or Is Someone You Know, Involved in a High-Demand Group or Movement ("cult")?Checklist of Characteristics

What Is A Cult?

Some Hazards of the Therapeutic Relationship

Intensity Addiction in Cults
(everything in Clairvision is about Intensity)

Why We Need To Become Spiritual Consumers

A Little Bit Culty
Free Your Inner Guru
Scientology: Fair Game

The Vow (HBO) - so many ah-ha moments from this series, especially around how people who are psychopaths, or simply geniuses, can manipulate others. There's no doubt Samuel Sagan was incredibly intelligent. Although definitely not exactly the same as Clairvision, there were enough similarities that this series is definitely worth a watch. Anyone who has been a part of CV will likely recognize certain elements of their own experience in this series.

The Sinner (Netlix) - season 2 deals with people in a seeming cult - many of the scenes depicted in this season felt all to familiar to my own Clairvision experience

The Deep End (Free Form/Hulu) - re: Teal Swan. So far this is the most disturbing TV show I have found because there are sooooo many similarities to Clairvision here. Although some of details about how their processing work are different, there are far too many similarities to how Teal Swan runs her group as to how Clairvision is run. (aka the only that matters is Samuel's vision for the school, how participants are treated, etc).

**As I was watching The Deep End I kept thinking how this show felt like a spiritual reality TV show. If people from CV would ever let cameras on property (which they NEVER would for this very reason), you'd see a lot of the same BS that goes on with Teal that goes on in CV, squabbling, gaslighting, dangerous situations. Most disturbing to me was Season 1, episode 3 where they essentially put a woman through a half/fake drowning incident to help her with her process. It's worth noting that the primary reason Clairvision took Samuel Sagan's book "Divine Madness & Endless Love Vol 2" down from public sale is because they thought the public couldn't handle how far Clairvision were willing to go to help someone through their process and didn't want to scare people off. One of the things that happens in the book is that the main character, Malcolm, decides to "help" his girlfriend with her process/samskaras by drowning her and then bringing her back to life using "future technology". Although I never saw this at any of the retreats I went to, after reading the book, there's no doubt in my mind that people in Clairvision would take things that far in order to "help" their fellow spiritual seekers.

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Re: Samuel Sagan Clairvision & IST Practitioners (Inner Space Techniques) Posted by: grok ()
Posted by: grok ()
Date: June 16, 2022 02:20AM


Clairvision claims they are not "New Age" but in reality this is just part of their marketing to make it seem more appealing or "real" or "advanced" to attract the "real seekers".

Clairvision practices and teachings include:
-past life regression
-astrology/planetary forces
-teachings from a mix of multiple religions/spiritual traditions including Gnostics, Christianity, Judaism, Rosicrucianism, Christian theosophy, Buddhism, Hinduism, Taoism, Tantra
-4 volumes of required reading about the "legends" about Atlantis (Atlantean Secrets)
-required readings about the possible future (Bleeding Sun)
-alternative or "holistic" healing techniques
-connecting with divine presences/angels through meditation and other practices

It's helpful to look at a decently standard definition of what New Age means to make a more accurate assessment for yourself instead of just taking what they say as fact.

From wiki: []

"As a form of Western esotericism, the New Age drew heavily upon a number of older esoteric traditions, in particular, those that emerged from the occultist current that developed in the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries...

Despite its highly eclectic nature, a number of beliefs commonly found within the New Age have been identified. Theologically, the New Age typically adopts a belief in a holistic form of divinity that imbues all of the universe, including human beings themselves. There is thus a strong emphasis on the spiritual authority of the self. This is accompanied by a common belief in a wide variety of semi-divine non-human entities, such as angels and masters, with whom humans can communicate...

Typically viewing human history as being divided into a series of distinct ages, a common New Age belief is that whereas once humanity lived in an age of great technological advancement and spiritual wisdom, it has entered a period of spiritual degeneracy, which will be remedied through the establishment of a coming Age of Aquarius, from which the milieu gets its name. There is also a strong focus on healing, particularly using forms of alternative medicine, and an emphasis on the notion that spirituality and science can be unified....

There is no central authority within the New Age phenomenon that can determine what counts as New Age and what does not. Many of those groups and individuals who could analytically be categorized as part of the New Age reject the term New Age in reference to themselves. Some even express active hostility to the term. Rather than terming themselves New Agers, those involved in this milieu commonly describe themselves as spiritual "seekers", and some self-identify as a member of a different religious group, such as Christianity, Judaism, or Buddhism."

This is almost an exact description of what goes on in Clairvision - so really, it seems like CV falls into that category of New Agers who actively "reject the term New Age in reference to themselves" more as a marketing ploy rather than it being a claim based in any kind of reality.

What Clairvision says about "New Age":

" is pertinent to state that Clairvision School is not a "New Age " organization. Its methods and techniques are based on principles quite different from those normally found in the New Age movement . In particular, in no case do the Clairvision techniques employ any type of channeling ("channeling"), creative imagination or positive affirmations. Neither hypnosis nor autosuggestion is used. The techniques of the Clairvision School are based on a direct awakening of the energy body, and the philosophy and foundations of the school are found in the Western tradition of knowledge"


"Clairvision is not a New Age organization. The age of enlightenment on Earth is certainly a very noble ideal that all people of good will would follow. The "New Age" movement is often marked by shallowness, both in doctrine and in practice. Sometimes theories advocated by the New Age movement lead to misleading nonsense."

According to Karen Kingston, one of the more famous CV students:
"Please note that the Clairvision School does not teach the usual New Age nonsense that is often associated with Atlantis, past-life therapy, entity clearing, and so on, and strongly dissociates itself from anyone who does."

I actually disagree that there is no channeling in Clairvision, they just call it something else. I went through the instructor training multiple times, and essentially what they teach you is that when you're teaching a group, you're plugging into a higher consciousness and letting that consciousness help you know what to say next. Some instructors have stated they had no idea what they were going to say until it "came from above" from The Archive presences or beings. If that's not channelling, well, I don't know what is... it sure seemed very similar to me, Clairvision just changed the words to fit their agenda and disassociate itself from "New Age nonsense".

Plus, I really question whether IST is a hypnotic process or not. If you break it down, both meditation and hypnosis are trance states. Trance states can be helpful, but if you're in them all the time (which you essentially are at Clairvision retreats) they can become not so helpful. Here are some examples of how people in the industry define hypnosis:

"Hypnosis, also referred to as hypnotherapy or hypnotic suggestion, is a trance-like state in which you have heightened focus and concentration. Hypnosis is usually done with the help of a therapist using verbal repetition and mental images. When you’re under hypnosis, you usually feel calm and relaxed, and are more open to suggestions....I think it safe to say that hypnosis is the act of a person being guided into a meditative state to overcome a particular challenge or obstacle....In my opinion, what sets hypnosis apart from meditation is that hypnosis is more closely related to clinical practices, whereas meditation is more on the spiritual side. Some states require that hypnotists be licensed and/or registered to practice. Meditation, guided or self-induced, does not require any sort of certification. Having said that, when I listen to a guided meditation and a hypnosis session, I cannot tell the difference."

"Essentially, hypnosis and meditation are the same things, because they are both based on the principles of being in a trance-like state of mind. The hypnotic state can be induced by yourself, with self-hypnosis, or by a hypnotist or hypnotherapist who will use various techniques to get their clients into that state where they are between sleep and consciousness – a total subdued state of extreme self-awareness....Meditation is about your self-awareness, mindfulness, and living within the present moment, whereas hypnosis is about tapping into memories from your past that is trapped within your subconscious mind....Hypnosis has this amazing ability to set your mind into theta mode. The theta waves can make you feel so subdued that you might even feel paralyzed at times when you are under the influence. This will pass, it is simply part of the process....Hypnosis and meditation are both very similar, except the one help you to dive into your present moment and revel in it, and the other helps to awaken the subconscious thoughts and memories."

"Hypnosis is a trance-like mental state in which people experience increased attention, concentration, and suggestibility. While hypnosis is often described as a sleep-like state, it is better expressed as a state of focused attention, heightened suggestibility, and vivid fantasies. People in a hypnotic state often seem sleepy and zoned out, but in reality, they are in a state of hyper-awareness."

Other thought provoking reading about hypnosis and trance states:





There are tons of other articles out there about hypnosis and how to induce it in both people who are aware it's happening and those who are not.
(This also leads me to believe that vision spaces the way CV does them are really just hypnotic states as well that are induced through continual invasive eye contact).

IST is an induced trance state, one that is facilitated by an IST connector/practitioner. Some people are more susceptible to suggestion than others, and I have definitely heard IST practitioners giving suggestions about how to relax and "go into the space", where to look, what they say, which is essentially giving information to someone in a trance state, who may take that information and start to believe something about themselves that isn't really true, but because their trusted IST practitioner said it, and they've been told that they are NOT under hypnosis and they are in full control (they aren't) they believe it. It seems to me that IST has a lot in common with hypnosis and just because Clairvision says that what they are doing isn't hypnosis doesn't mean it's true.

It seems like this denial of Clairvision being "New Age" and how they try to control the meaning of certain words to fit their own agenda is just another example of the elitism thing people pointed to earlier in this thread - Clairvision is better and more real than "New Age" - it's for the "real seekers" who want something more real. Don't fall for it - they are as New Age as any other group like them is, it's just part of their marketing ploy to recruit the over achievers and elitists.

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Re: Samuel Sagan Clairvision
Posted by: metanoia ()
Date: June 16, 2022 03:53AM

These are great posts, grok. I resonate with a great deal of it--the attractiveness of front-facing people pushing ATE courses, setting up expectations that you're going to feel bad and discombobulated and that that's just 'part of the process,' and ESPECIALLY portraying the school as being for 'serious' seekers. This is super insidious--no one wants to think of themselves as a dilettante, so of course that's going to pull people in and keep them there.

And it is New Agey as hell! Atlantis and apocalyptic future-telling and all sorts of wild and unverifiable is bizarre to me that they are able to convince themselves that they're not squarely in the New Age camp of syncretic pseudospiritual organizations.

The one thing I will disagree with, which is maybe a quibble, is that I don't think meditation is necessarily the same thing as hypnosis or trance. I think there are practices that do essentially function as hypnotic inductions, but by and large they are practices that are aiming to induce a particular state of mind or state of consciousness, whereas in many ways the best meditation practice instructions I have found have been about not seeking to change or manipulate experience in any way. The way that CV seems to talk about gaining or developing abilities, states of consciousness, or special experiences certainly seems to place them in the realm of attempting to manipulate people's internal state, however, and also struck me as rather acquisitive, rather than teaching people how to let go and let be.

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Re: Samuel Sagan Clairvision & IST Practitioners (Inner Space Techniques)
Posted by: grok ()
Date: June 16, 2022 09:59PM

"Cult leaders understand the power of charisma, the attractiveness of transcendental ideology, and what it takes to make vulnerable people feel like every question is answerable with jargon, intrusive eye contact, and deeply deceptive shit."



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