I still have hopes that Dan will find better role models in the future and gain a more realistic take on the world. One of the great things about youth is its curiosity and willingness to experiment with new ideas.

As to the possibility of the Gianstefanis pa and ma becoming genuine humanitarians ---I think we would have seen a glimmer of that before now if it were at all feasible.

Stranger things have happened--- but not that often.

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Stoic
I still have hopes that Dan will find better role models in the future and gain a more realistic take on the world. One of the great things about youth is its curiosity and willingness to experiment with new ideas.

As to the possibility of the Gianstefanis pa and ma becoming genuine humanitarians ---I think we would have seen a glimmer of that before now if it were at all feasible.

Stranger things have happened--- but not that often.

I can't think of many better role models than Peter Tatchell. Of course , he is still alive so doesn't have the same romantic remembrance of other civil rights campaigners. However , this is the man who tried to make a citizens arrest on Mugabe and sufferred brain and eye damage by his bodyguards as a consequence. He has his own ' blue placard ' here in Southwark . So he's a local hero to us and his work on Gay Rights is something I have full admiration for.

There is grounded and then there is 'realistic'. Perhaps you could share some of the people that you believe to be better role models , and how they differ from Peter Tatchell.

I've spent more time with Sue and Rols than any of the posters here, I believe. I wholeheartedly disagree with some of the things that under the regime of Dave they were involved with. However , they were both impressionable teenagers when they joined and left over a year ago, well before the other grads.

They were always genuine humanitarians. ALWAYS ! I met good people. Good people who were mistaken. They aren't perfect , but I believe all of the JC grads deserve our support and encouragement for the recognition of the lie they've laboured under. They were all good people.

I understand where you're coming from though Stoic and appreciate your comments.

Stoic is correct to raise these concerns.

What sort of an outlook on life can Dan possibly have after being dragged up by these two chancers?

Sue and Roland are not a positive influence on their child. In fact, they have undoubtedly been neglectful parents.

That picture of Dan with the chains around his ankles and wrists tells a thousand words.

At the age of 16 he should be enjoying life and gaining an education. I don't see a lot of happiness in this young chap. What I do see is a teenager who has had an anti-social and negative attitude instilled in him.

If you think a 16 year old kid wants to be hanging about a street with chains around his ankles and wrists then you are wrong.

This life has been forced upon him.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/02/2011 01:14AM by Apollo.

Er , do you have teenage children Apollo? There are far worse ways that Dan could be expressing his ( rightful) teenage rebellion. I'm sure that a mention in IndyMedia- very popular amongst high schools here in the UK , is gaining him a lot of popularity amongst his piers. If you think that a sixteen year old doesn't want to be photographed in in the UK's hippest ' paper ' in chains and an orange boiler suit - then you've never been to any of the cool places in London!
Dan is highly intelligent and despite their former wretched allegiance Sue and Rols are good parents. It's not all about the Jeremy Kyle show you know. Plus, how can you judge happiness from a photo?
Look at Brian Birmingham, a wonderful guy- though I don't always agree with what he does- but I do believe he has a heart of gold and I always have time for him. He did everything ' right' and almost sufferred a nervous breakdown in the military. A wonderful guy though!
Let the young express themselves how they want. Let's encourage and lift up the vulnerable. If you think that writing negative and public statements about a sixteen year old boy is valid- then YOU are wrong.
Give the kid a break.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/02/2011 01:35AM by hello.

Apollo, I don't want to fall out with you , but perhaps you should contact your local social services and show them this thread. They could give you some solid advice on what is appropriate to write publicly about minors and their circumstances, regardless of who their parents are.

I think you've lost your sense of reality due to the friendship you've built up with Dan's parents, Hello.

There are far better ways Dan can be expressing himself.

It appears Dan has now left education which i'm sure his parents encouraged.

He now appears to be working full-time with the London Catholic Workers, so yes, I imagine he's very popular amongst his ''peers''.

There is nothing cool about what Dan is doing. This life has been forced upon him.

I know it's not all about the JK show. Ex members and supporters have given an eye witness account of their neglect, including yourself.

What's happened in Brian Birmingham's private life is irrelevant, and completely inappropriate to discuss.

We are allowed to disagree, Hello.

Please do not lecture me over what I can and can't write. We have moderator's who will decide what is and isn't acceptable.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/02/2011 01:44AM by Apollo.

Hello: it seems to me that where you are idealistic with respect to your perspective on the young man, Stoic and Apollo are much more realistic. Daniel is not making a truly informed decision in doing what he is doing, and is only behaving according to what has been imposed upon him by his parents, and through Dave McKay. What they are doing now, is merely an extension of what they were doing in the cult, namely, attention-seeking and media-manipulating behavior. This stuff should hardly be supported or encouraged.

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No more emotional than your own misty-eyed idealism, I think.

BTW, this isn't about Peter Tatchell, a dedicated and courageous human rights activist who has continually proved both his courage and his sincerity.

This is about the Gianstefanis who, until recently, were 20+ year die-hard believers in the Apostle Davejc and his version of saving the world by enslaving youth into his street begging business. Not to mention turning a blind eye to active paedophiles in the ranks of the believers.

Sorry, I don't buy the sudden conversion from cult enforcers into humanitarian crusaders and I seriously question the credulity of anyone foolish enough to think that can be done in a few short weeks.

Poor Dan, with such an example as his only perspective on the world.

lol ! We cross posted there. Misty eyed idealist I'm happy to own, though I'm still type of idealist that will take action and report serious issues when I believe children may be at risk.
I misunderstood where you coming from. I'm pleased we agree on Peter Tatchell. An honourable man indeed!
As for Sue , as Apostate has said, her life was one long coercion from dave. She was a teenager too when she joined. Hopefully the cycle of control will end. Still, I'll hope for the best and you expect the worst.

It wasn't Apostate who said that, hello, it was Jon Ronson in his Kidneys doc.

And if you do not think that Bradley Manning deserves to be incarcerated if he is guilty of that which he is held for (apparently Daniel G. does not), then you you've got another thing coming. That's all I have to say.

As I said, to do the right thing- and I'm sure you want to - contacting social services is a good idea. I'm sure that Brian has no problem with me bringing up things that he has already publicly exposed.
You are making allegations and speculating. Last time I met Sue and Rols, Dan was in school. Apart from taking a day off, do you have any evidence that he is not still in school.
There is no need to overstate your case. Dave has done lots of damage to people.
No need to pick on a vulnerable sixteen year old. Have you contacted the proper authorities with regards to him? I find it difficult to believe that you have, because their advice is contrary to what you are doing.
We are allowed to agree to disagree, I agree.
My sense of reality means that I'm more than ' hot air' and grandiose posts on a forum. If I perceive something is wrong, I contact people and seek advice on the best way to proceed for all. I spent an entire week seeking advice about the best thing to do about the child abuse situations. If your conscience tells you it's fine to write negative things about a minor publicly- fine. I'm just pointing out it doesn't concur with any child protection agencies I've spoken to.

Rick- have you come across any child protection groups that tell you it's appropriate and nourishing for a vulnerable child, who is possibly at risk to have detrimental things written about him?
I'd rather the disussion here is focused on McKay, rather than the children of his victims.

Apostate said it too. Brian- stop posting under so many different names. It gets tiring.