We all want the best for Dan and his family. Lets give them all some space. Please lets give people time to heal.

I would generally support Franky's observations that "time" spent with the Catholic Workers and on behalf of their various "causes" will not harm Dan emotionally, although I agree with Stoic that is is hardly the best recuperation for "publicity-hungry" ma and pa....still vicariously living out the vanity of the Jesus Christian fantasy of being "God's gift" to the wider world...and that it may potentially cost Dan a "formal education" as Apollo has noted.

...however it would seem to me that Stoic and Apollo (and myself?) are ALSO giving Dan "space" and the opportunity to "heal" in the best way they/we see fit ...frankly pointing out the error of their ways, and not prevaricating about it,.... (in order to better "befriend" them?)....!!



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/02/2011 09:30PM by Malcolm Wesley WREST.

'yes ARE they selling literature, at the moment'


Having painted themselves into a corner after a lifetime of blindly following the 'godly counsel' of Davejc, the Gianstefanis don't have much option but to continue doing what they have been doing for the last several decades, do they?

After all, they are unwilling to work and probably unemployable now too. I can't see any employer looking kindly at two middle-aged street preachers/beggars with no employment track record at all (and no legal status in this country either)--not in these straightened times of cuts and joblessness.

According to Wife-Swap, their household budget for a week is only £2.50--but even that £2.50 has to come from somewhere. In such circumstances they will rationalise their continued street selling of literature as imperative, just as they have rationalised (read: lied to themselves about ) every twisted directive from Davejc over the decades.

After all, he taught them the doctrine of 'Honest to whom?' didn't he-----and they learned that one very well.

I doubt either of the elder Gianstefanis can stay unbefuddled for long enough, after their own prolonged exposure to Davejc's lunacy, to figure out the difference between a thought of their own from one of Davejc's.

And they will, in turn, befuddle anyone who gives them any credence at all.
That is the nature of the game.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/02/2011 09:59PM by Stoic.

Quote
Apollo
Hello,

Do you have any idea which part of London the JCs sell their propaganda?

I believe you have bumped into them on the odd occasion.

Cheers.

Hello/Franky?

not seen anyone for over at least a year.

Which part of London did you last see them selling their propaganda?

Thanks Franky

south london. sorry if replies are short. on phone

No problem, in your own time.

Can you please be more specific?

Thanks

Thank you Franky!

The JC's don't have appeared to have added to the UK listeners site either......surely a "given" even if they were to be distributing outside of London.

...less than 6 months on from my departure from the JC's, I would have probably been doing much as Roland and Sue currently are.....They have come out from underneath of four decades under McKays' stinking thumb....they will need a little more "time" I suspect,

.....although the more they learn to genuinely live for their beliefs (whatever they eventually choose these to be) and the less time devoted to McKays' media-whoring, the better off, I personally suspect they will be....

McKay (even where he has quietly "dumped" them)....would never have "officially" granted them their freedom....they would have been sent "undercover" or otherwise instructed to continue to "fight the good fight" (i.e. sell McKay) for the duration of their lives....McKay is like Gadaffi, in that no matter, how much territory he loses, or how many defections there may be, he will in public, do nothing more than continue to rant his insane bullshit....

...the situation on ground may be a little different however.

I suspect that they will need a lot more time.
I understand your optimism for the rehabilitation of the Gianstefanis, Malcolm, but their situation is very different to yours.
They have been devotees for very much longer and consequently have allowed Davejc to shape their minds and lives to a much greater extent. You were much younger and, being in a natural period of rapid change, more resilient.

The thoughtworld of Davejc is an ingrained habit to them now and there hasn't been any breakthrough of clarity that has led to them repudiating him and his thoughtworld. That would be a good sign for recovery, although probably very emotionally painful for a time for the Gianstefanis.
They may have drifted a little from the doctrine--backslidden in Davejc's terms--over their son but they are still repeating the same tired old patterns (probably because they are unable to come up with any others now, having given up the uncertainty of independent thought).

There is a reason that older people are viewed as 'set in their ways'---- it is a natural result of longer continuous practice of those ways.
It is still not a hopeless case, the shock of losing a spouse upon whom one has become emotionally dependent can galvanise independent thinking again at any age, but it is by no means a given that this will happen and there is no guarantee that the late-blooming independence will be easy to negotiate or successfully accomplished.
They haven't done much to help themselves by buying so totally into Davejc's arrogant delusions that being a parasite on the work and efforts of others ----that, paradoxically, they concurrently consider to be inferior to themselves-- is a godly way to live.

I am not so optimistic.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 04/03/2011 04:43PM by Stoic.

I agree with Stoic in that Dan's wellbeing is the main concern and not that of his parents.

His parents have made their own bed and now they can lie on it. Yes, they previously were victims but they became predators just like their master a very long time ago.

We're talking about two people who withheld information from the police regarding the wherabouts of a 16 year old. We're talking about two people who have promoted this dangerous and destructive cult for the best part of three decades. They have caused an unbelievable amount of suffering to numerous families.

They are a pair of spongers who have offered absolutely nothing to this great nation.

They have been extremely neglectful parents whose priority has always been to serve and promote ''Apostle'' David John McKay (former ''Shepherd'' of the notorious ''Children of God''). Apostate, Franky and Kirstie have all given eye-witness accounts to back this up.

They are now using their own son as a pawn in their fantasy land fight to ''save'' the world.

How long until Dan has a criminal record?

How long until they convince Dan to sell his kidney?

The Gianstefani's are the perfect example of why one should not join the Jesus Christians cult.