Dave McKay wrote:

'But I have come across a lot of people who are really angry and bitter toward the Family. These are the people who say that Moses David was a monster, who brainwashed them, etc. etc. etc. Invariably, I find that these are the people who went along with all the bad stuff (usually for their own selfish/immature reasons, whether it was for praise from leaders in the Family, sexual pleasure, or whatever). But rather than take responsibility for their behaviour, as adults, they live their entire lives under the spectre of bitterness. And the amazing thing is that they get extremely angry with someone like myself for not being just as bitter.'


I think its a natural response, once they have realised the extent to which they have been hoodwinked, for the victims of the Family aka Children of God, and any other cult organisation to feel bitter and angry towards the organisation that conned them so completely.

Davejc is working a 'turnaround,' here, deflecting the anger and bitterness expressed towards himself for aping Berg's methods back onto the victims and taking the moral high ground himself in attempting to imply that he didn't go along with the 'bad stuff' (implicitly referring to the paedophilia) and therefore he is blameless and so not angry and bitter himself.

What he omits to mention in the 'bad stuff' is the manipulative method and techniques he appropriated wholesale from Berg's COG operation and has been employing himself ever since on anyone he comes into contact with---for the same purposes of control and domination that motivated Berg. Davejc has no reason to be angry and bitter towards the COG/Family--he has had a lifetime of personal benefit from applying those same techniques to control and dominate everyone he comes into contact with.

Elizabeth Kubler-Ross delineated the steps of the grieving process in relation to those suffering a bereavement and this model of the emotional process is generally recognised now have wider application to any form of profound loss.

[en.wikipedia.org]

The loss of trust in themselves and others, the loss of a solid belief system, the loss of friends and family and any notion of the stability of their worldview experienced by people waking up from cultic involvement is such a profound loss. Anger and bitterness is to be expected as a necessary part of the acceptance process.
The simplistic view advocated by many purist christians that such very natural human emotions should not be felt or admitted to is just another means of control and repression. It isn't possible to repress such feelings completely and the stricture against feeling what one obviously is feeling, the attempts to shame and silence the person experiencing such emotions is part of the establishment of authoritarian control mechanisms.

[www.businessballs.com]

EKR stage Interpretation
1 - Denial
Denial is a conscious or unconscious refusal to accept facts, information, reality, etc., relating to the situation concerned. It's a defence mechanism and perfectly natural. Some people can become locked in this stage when dealing with a traumatic change that can be ignored. Death of course is not particularly easy to avoid or evade indefinitely.
2 - Anger
Anger can manifest in different ways. People dealing with emotional upset can be angry with themselves, and/or with others, especially those close to them. Knowing this helps keep detached and non-judgemental when experiencing the anger of someone who is very upset.
3 - Bargaining
Traditionally the bargaining stage for people facing death can involve attempting to bargain with whatever God the person believes in. People facing less serious trauma can bargain or seek to negotiate a compromise. For example "Can we still be friends?.." when facing a break-up. Bargaining rarely provides a sustainable solution, especially if it's a matter of life or death.
4 - Depression
Also referred to as preparatory grieving. In a way it's the dress rehearsal or the practice run for the 'aftermath' although this stage means different things depending on whom it involves. It's a sort of acceptance with emotional attachment. It's natural to feel sadness and regret, fear, uncertainty, etc. It shows that the person has at least begun to accept the reality.
5 - Acceptance
Again this stage definitely varies according to the person's situation, although broadly it is an indication that there is some emotional detachment and objectivity. People dying can enter this stage a long time before the people they leave behind, who must necessarily pass through their own individual stages of dealing with the grief.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 04/07/2011 09:09AM by Stoic.

It should perhaps be emphasised that the above Kubler-Ross model is a mental framework to enable detached thinking about this emotional process. (emotional matters are notoriously difficult to think objectively about)
It is not a rigid, step-by-step process in itself. People vary hugely as individuals and so respond differently in the specifics, some may get stuck in denial, anger or depression, some may not manifest much obvious denial or anger at all.

The 'bargaining' stage is of interest. I think that many xJC's entertain hopes that it is possible to remain friends with Davejc so that all is not completely lost. This need to bargain is so much more pressing when Davejc is the parent and intimately involved in the building of the childs worldview from birth--to contemplate such a potential loss of every known thing is devastating and any compromise will be clung to rather than face that loss unprepared.

The problem with hoping to remain on friendly terms with Davejc is that Davejc himself is an absolutist--it is his way or the highway--and he is very practised at presenting a friendly front while working to dominate and control.
He has made deception for its own sake his life's work and is unwilling and unable at this late date to change the course of a lifetime.

No matter how friendly the xJC's attempt to be in order to maintain some contact with him and not accept the profligate waste of a large chunk of their time and energy, Davejc cannot change because he is a scorpion and does what scorpions do. If one is a kindly frog it is highly dangerous to expect the scorpions of this world to behave as kindly frogs and not as scorpions.

Apologies for quoting myself here, but its a very old story on the dangers of deception employed a scorpion to get what he wants and a good illustration:
[forum.culteducation.com]


'There is such a thing as 'idiot compassion', best illustrated by the story of the frog who kindly agreed to ferry a scorpion across a river. The frog had raised the issue of the scorpion stinging him to death but the scorpion insisted that he would not do that.
Of course half-way across the scorpion stung the kindly frog and when the frog gasped out with his last breath "Why?" the scorpion replied that it was because he was a scorpion-- that's what scorpions do and what else could the frog reasonably expect from a scorpion?'

People can be encouraged and supported to move through the grieving process, but cannot be forced. Each individual has to find their own way through this, in their own time. True compassion lies in recognising this and not demanding that the individual move to any one elses pace and timetable but their own.

Its essential though that they stay well away from scorpions while they are still vulnerable to the manipulative wiles.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 04/07/2011 04:28PM by Stoic.

What kept me alive and clinging to a shred of sanity during the torture of my childhood was the virulent hatred that I developed against my tormentors. Of necessity, I learned the art of deception early too, to not reveal my hatred too openly.
As a result I have a healthy respect for the emotion of hatred, I owe my continued existence to it.
It is a far more effective tool than love in the desperate conditions of the battlefield. My personal experience doesn't allow me to give up on hate, so any nonsense about loving one's enemies is out for me. I can strive to know them intimately but never will I love them----I happily do a cheerful hatred of my enemies.
Horses for courses.

It is of vital importance to recognise a foe from a friend.
Away from the battlefield however, in congenial social situations, hatred is pretty much counter-productive.
I had to mourn the loss of my virulent hatred and it took me a long, long, long time.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/07/2011 05:25PM by Stoic.

Here's a good song about the time these things take:

[www.youtube.com]

Dear Stoic,

Yes! ..Hear, hear! Hatred IS the "healthy" reaction to McKay......living out your days as a "doormat" for him, is not!

(AND dismissing McKays pea-brained efforts to duplicitously inculcate "guilt" in those who, rightly, so feel that way.....)


Why...The record speaks for itself...the old goat has NEVER genuinely responded to any attempts to "peacefully" redress the past...

His cult will disappear and he will die, cursing the world around him for failing to "recognize" him with his last sordid thoughts....that's it!!!

One may see your your own triumph over the adversity you have faced down, in the quality of your many contributions Stoic.

You remain an inspiring example, to those seeking release from Godless McKay and other witless potentates like him,

who set out to conquer and squander the lives of others through deceit...


[www.youtube.com]

Its not so much triumph over adversity as my benefitting from the ordinary perceptive kindness of strangers. A relative stranger gave me a Viktor Frankl book to read when I was in my early teens and in an extreme of despair, rage and powerlessness.

[www.amazon.com]

It didn't do much for my immediate problems but it did stay with me as a possibility--that it is possible to come out sane and useful on the other side of far worse situations. It led me to begin to think differently.

[www.fleurdelis.com]

'With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams,
it is still a beautiful world.
Be cheerful. Strive to be happy.'

McKay and his ilk are in the business of closing down the possibilities for his victims until they are regimented and obedient. What a terrible fate for anyone in this one life.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/08/2011 02:13AM by Stoic.

Stoic you're a terrific example of how one can stay postive and rebuild their life having previously faced adversity due to your upbringing in a destructive cult.

Most people who are sucked into a destructive cult are victims but the biggest victims are the children who are either born into the cult or taken in at a young age.

Hopefully young Daniel Gianstefani can take inspiration from your story and he too can move forward with his life in a more positive manner.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/08/2011 06:02AM by Apollo.

Dave McKay
But I have come across a lot of people who are really angry and bitter toward the Family. These are the people who say that Moses David was a monster, who brainwashed them, etc. etc. etc. Invariably, I find that these are the people who went along with all the bad stuff (usually for their own selfish/immature reasons, whether it was for praise from leaders in the Family, sexual pleasure, or whatever). But rather than take responsibility for their behaviour, as adults, they live their entire lives under the spectre of bitterness. And the amazing thing is that they get extremely angry with someone like myself for not being just as bitter.


..and the amazing this is that this sick and twisted mind imagines that "projection" here (duplicitously endeavouring to inculcate guilt in those who "defame" the "good" Moses David) would not be readily identified, as nothing other than McKays' psychological association with some other monster like himself,....


Thank you Apollo, for reminding us how this loser first started sinking into the mire of his own psychotic self-adulation....

......to the point that he now insanely imagines he "outwits" the world with whatever bullshit he proudly spouts....

It's my pleasure Malcolm.

I think it's safe to say any sane human-being who reads about Berg's disturbing teachings would consider him to be a monster.

The fact McKay doesn't consider Berg a monster and seems unwilling to say anything negative about the man is very telling.