nooneofanyimportance,

I've often thought the same things. I've resisted the urge to call people out and name Pastor Jackie individually, but I *hear* what you are saying. I don't understand how people can say that they've spoken to her, that they love her and support her, all the while *discounting* the stand that she has taken, and over looking the sacrifices that she has made, and apparently ignoring (or trying to wish away) the reasons that she and her family had for leaving TP. This disturbs me in a way that I can't even describe!

I also find it amusing (not in a laughing sort of way) that some think the people posting here are just speculating that the things posted here is *rumor*. They don't know us, who we are, or what we *know* to be true and fact.

Somebody posted here a couple of days ago, that we can not *convince* you to leave TP. I agree. You can either see what's going on, or not. I hope that those of you reading here, who are seeking answers, will go to God, first. I pray that you will earnestly seek the truth. Pray, search God's word. Know God's heart. He will reveal the truth. He will not be mocked. He is a loving and gracious God. He is forgiving.

Hello Trouble,

Again, welcome. I am going to respond to your post one or two items at a time, as time allows.

You stated you wished to bring "balance" to the forum. Balance is just that...balance. It isn't fact, or truth or even insight. It is, at best, another perspective. We appreciate your perspective and look forward to hearing more. And we hope you will voice your perspective in such a way as to avoid having anymore of your posts go unpublished by the moderator. The moderator does not tolerate attacks on forum participants.

You give as an example of balance your perspective on accountability. You state that the "elders" (a term I use lightly) practiced "accountability" by sending Mike and Cyndi on a 4 month sabbatical for "rest, restoration, and to seek what God's direction for TPc in the coming years might be". My question to you, Trouble, is-How, exactly, is THAT accountability?

In your rush to bring balance you failed to mention that several leaders have resigned or stepped down from their position of leadership at TPc. Some of these leaders have taken this step because they believe the church has gotten way out of "balance". We have an Elder and three deacons who have resigned in the last 90 days; no doubt more resignations are forthcoming as leaders determine that the "consultation" was a ploy to stem the flow (speculation on my part).

I do hope you were able to talk with the Elder and the deacons who have resigned as part of your endeavor to find balance and discover truth. No doubt you would have done so before posting here, I am certain.

Regarding the YOUTUBE videos-sounds like they hit a nerve for you. Let me just say, this forum is not responsible for those videos. If you have a problem with them take it up with the owners of those videos on YOUTUBE. They do not represent this forum. Sorry that they struck a nerve and caused some stinging for you as you viewed each of them.

More later if time permits.

TPR

Quote
Brokenhearted
nooneofanyimportance,

I've often thought the same things. I've resisted the urge to call people out and name Pastor Jackie individually, but I *hear* what you are saying. I don't understand how people can say that they've spoken to her, that they love her and support her, all the while *discounting* the stand that she has taken, and over looking the sacrifices that she has made, and apparently ignoring (or trying to wish away) the reasons that she and her family had for leaving TP. This disturbs me in a way that I can't even describe!

I also find it amusing (not in a laughing sort of way) that some think the people posting here are just speculating that the things posted here is *rumor*. They don't know us, who we are, or what we *know* to be true and fact.

Somebody posted here a couple of days ago, that we can not *convince* you to leave TP. I agree. You can either see what's going on, or not. I hope that those of you reading here, who are seeking answers, will go to God, first. I pray that you will earnestly seek the truth. Pray, search God's word. Know God's heart. He will reveal the truth. He will not be mocked. He is a loving and gracious God. He is forgiving.

I have said that I have spoken to Jackie and don't believe that just because that testimony alone isn't enough to make me leave de-values her or her first hand accounts.

That's it.

Hello Trouble,

The figure is not $10,000 per month -- but $15,000 per month. I don'.t need to divulge my sources to you or anyone else. Suffice to say when confronted with the figure at least two elders confirmed it. Whether Pastor Mike makes $10,000 or $15,000 per month is irrelevant. Either figure is ludicrous. A pastor's pay should be what the average is in the community he works. For Marysville that is about $60,000 a year. So the bottom line is he is either making double or triple what he should while members of his staff are not paid a living wage and at least one has to go to a food bank weekly so they can feed their family. No matter how you twist it the elders showed poor judgment and should not have suggested such a salary if there are ministries and staff members which are not being adequately funded or paid.

You can try and cloud the issues all you want, however it would appear to me that the sole purpose of your post was to upset people, and if that is the case all you are doing is showing how easily you can ignore the problems and that your salvation and that of your family is of little value to you. If you place so little value on what Jesus did for us all on the cross, then I pity you. Our Lord Jesus Christ and our our Father God in Heaven deserve all the honor and praise. Pastor Mike and his hand picked group of elders do not.

The accountability for Mike is laughable and non-existent. If it were, he would have been fired when he came back from Sabbatical and announced that he and Cindy were only accountable to each other and that he was going to form his own denomination without oversight.

Perhaps you just did not find out enough of the truth about what was going on at Turning Point that if you said something other people might start asking questions. When I mentioned we were leaving and why as well as what I had discovered after a little research and a lot of questions, I was told it was better that we go than be devisive by telling others what we had learned. Hmmmmm, sounds to me like TPC does not want the truth out in the open. Pastor Mike might have some trouble putting " butts in seats" if the whole truth were known.

So the next time you want to hurt and upset someone, take it somewhere else and leave the people on this forum alone. They have been hurt enough by their experience at TPC. They don't need you rubbing salt in an open wound.

Daughter of Dorcas

TPWOC sermon for Sunday April 26th "Great Faith: The Danger of little faith" by Pastor Mike Villamor. Mike has been having to many dreams in this sermon I believe that Mike thinks that he has Great faith and the reat of us have little faith. Pastor Mike is going to teach us in the coming weeks how to have great faith. Pastor Mike says that we have not seen our positions for blessing and that we are designed to be blessed and prosperous, blessed when you go in and blessed when you go out.I believe Pastor Mike wants us to fix our eyes on the Jesus of health and wealth. Pastor Mike wants God to tune in to his life and use his DVR on the Mike Villamor channel so that God can get excited about how much great faith he has. Us who have little faith are in bondage,confused,have fear, our provisions are hindered and our progress is cut short. Pastor Mike is going to teach us kingdom principles or otherwise false word-faith prosperity positive confession doctrine. So watch the coming weeks, it will be Pastor Mike's chance to impress Dr. Increase, Bob Harrison, Casey Treat and Wendall Smith with his teaching on Great faith. Pastor Mike did you say that people who have little faith are lukewarm as you read in the book of Revelation and we would be better of with no faith. I could be mistaken but I thought I heard you judge us with little faith on if we are saved or not. People with Great faith Pastor Mike what do they look like, do they teach that it's Gods will for all believers to be prosperous, do they teach that you appoint yourself as some great apostle who cons everbody with the teaching of the covering of the apostle and double honor so you can get gifts and feel like some great king. Pastor Mike have you ever preached a sermon where you went verse by verse through a entire book of the bible? Pastor Mike we who have little faith what is wrong with us? do we have sin in our lives, or are we out of Gods will? or maybe are faith is not good enough? Or is it because we reject all your false teaching. Pastor Mike you have caused division and disunity at TPWOC.

Trouble, ask to see Pastor Cyndi and Pastor Mike's 2008 tax return information. Ask to see their W2's. If TPC is transparent, they will show you. If they're not, they will make some sort of rediculous excuse that leaves you ashamed. Trouble, you are well named. Go somewhere else and spew your idiocity. Every post you have made in the last couple of days is full of rationalization, justification, and denial. I agree with another poster, sometimes the peace we feel after we make a decision is relief that we don't have to do the difficult thing we were most afraid of and now can sit or rest on your laurels and be the big hero because YOU DIDN"T LEAVE! May the worship dancers gather around you and sing omage to the great one who stayed. You have no sense of respect for the process of others who have been hurt by the leadership at TPC. When the church crumbles down around your ankles, or when leadership begins to abuse you, maybe you'll leave then. Are you staying because it is comfortable and too hard to give up all your friends? Or are you staying because you love God and it is His purpose you hunger for? Whatever your reason, do what ever you want. Just don't come on here and spout self-centered stupid stuff.

I started listening to Mike's sermon from Sun. 26th. I couldn't get past the dreams. Just can't listen to it. To weird for me. Didn't sound like the rest was worth it according to what Buddy posted.

Outreach

We will be conducting a 6 week class on the subject, Recovering from spiritual abuse. If interested please private message me.

TPWOC Discipleship Conference October10th will be having false word of faith teacher Casey Treat and there has beed a change, Wendall Smith has been replaced by Dave Martin of Ultimate Life church from Orlando, Florida. Dave Martin sounds like he is a false prosperity teacher, I am still doing my research so I will get back with you. Let me know what you come up with.I just came across this new change to there diiscipleship conference on TPWOC web site. If this is true it just confirms the direction Pastor Mike is taking TPWOC. Into the Word-faith,name it claim it,positive confession,prosperity movement. A different Jesus and a different Gospel . How and who found this Dave Martin guy and what does he teach!

I watched the Justin Peters video (the right one) in full. I really liked it but I would hesitate to use it as a tool to convince anyone of false teachings. This has nothing to do with my opinion on what he says. He is masterful in his delivery and he is very compelling to listen to. My one reason is simply this, where are the scripture references to help someone understand the false doctrine compared to the word of God? Its hard to go head to head with someone on false teachings without biblical reference. Its great to watch that video and it is truth. You just can't go in with that as your only weapon, got to have scripture!

Does anyone have a video that he teaches where he gets into the Word?

Thanks