Re: Turning Point Church World Outreach Center-Tell Your Story
Posted by:
tpcwocattender
()
Date: May 01, 2009 08:25PM
My story – cliff not style:
Simply put where there is smoke there is usually fire. I will say that smoke is common in a church, religion is such a passionate subject and as we all know wars are fought over it. So, I didn't get too alarmed over a little smoke however a few weeks ago a large plume was spotted. It was the smoke of a great young couple that left the church. I would have never thought that these two could leave or would leave. I respect them even though I really don't know them. I told my wife 'if those two left we are in trouble!' That may seem to take away from others who left, this is not my intension. It is just the preverbal straw that broke the camel’s back. I had been asking questions before but admittedly I was being passive aggressive and not wholeheartedly searching. I have been aware of this sight for some months, I think December some time. I was concerned but not alarmed. I have to say my years of being in the church have numbed me to the ugly side of church, this is what I perceived most of this forum was. I will be humble and say that I did not recognize some of the false doctrine that is entrenched in the church. It has been cleverly disguised and sold with a nice bow on top. Honestly I don’t think we are teaching the full ‘word of faith’ doctrine but we are not too far from that. I was asked to read the book ‘under cover’ within my first few months of attended. If fact it was told that I ‘needed’ to read it. I half heartedly went through it but found it to lack meaty doctrine and dismissed it. This sight got me to go to page 147 and read the statement where John says something to the affect that ‘I have a new revelation. Oh, and by the way, you won’t find it in the bible. It is a special message from God to me to you.’ I am wondering how we can teach this false doctrine and expect each other to walk it out. That seems to be a big miss by the leadership of the church. How can we test everything against the word of God if it is being added to? I digress. This is where I am, asking questions and seeking answers.
Simply put where there is smoke there is usually fire. I will say that smoke is common in a church, religion is such a passionate subject and as we all know wars are fought over it. So, I didn't get too alarmed over a little smoke however a few weeks ago a large plume was spotted. It was the smoke of a great young couple that left the church. I would have never thought that these two could leave or would leave. I respect them even though I really don't know them. I told my wife 'if those two left we are in trouble!' That may seem to take away from others who left, this is not my intension. It is just the preverbal straw that broke the camel’s back. I had been asking questions before but admittedly I was being passive aggressive and not wholeheartedly searching. I have been aware of this sight for some months, I think December some time. I was concerned but not alarmed. I have to say my years of being in the church have numbed me to the ugly side of church, this is what I perceived most of this forum was. I will be humble and say that I did not recognize some of the false doctrine that is entrenched in the church. It has been cleverly disguised and sold with a nice bow on top. Honestly I don’t think we are teaching the full ‘word of faith’ doctrine but we are not too far from that. I was asked to read the book ‘under cover’ within my first few months of attended. If fact it was told that I ‘needed’ to read it. I half heartedly went through it but found it to lack meaty doctrine and dismissed it. This sight got me to go to page 147 and read the statement where John says something to the affect that ‘I have a new revelation. Oh, and by the way, you won’t find it in the bible. It is a special message from God to me to you.’ I am wondering how we can teach this false doctrine and expect each other to walk it out. That seems to be a big miss by the leadership of the church. How can we test everything against the word of God if it is being added to? I digress. This is where I am, asking questions and seeking answers.
Re: Turning Point Church World Outreach Center-Tell Your Story
Posted by:
Brokenhearted
()
Date: May 01, 2009 09:42PM
Attender
Thank you for sharing your story with us. I understand how you must have felt when the couple left....that's how I felt when Pastor Jackie left. I tried not to make an *emotional* decision, based on my feelings for Pastor Jackie, but the truth was that I had known things weren't right for a long time. Pastor Jackie's resignation confirmed that for me....I was able to somewhat dismiss the *truth* b/c as long as the elders didn't see it, there must not have been a problem. Well, the elders are a part of the problem!
That young couple who recently left TP are dear to many of us.....it was a sad day. I hope and pray that their courage will strengthen others, and help to bring about the long needed changes that TP so desperately needs to make.
Thank you for sharing your story with us. I understand how you must have felt when the couple left....that's how I felt when Pastor Jackie left. I tried not to make an *emotional* decision, based on my feelings for Pastor Jackie, but the truth was that I had known things weren't right for a long time. Pastor Jackie's resignation confirmed that for me....I was able to somewhat dismiss the *truth* b/c as long as the elders didn't see it, there must not have been a problem. Well, the elders are a part of the problem!
That young couple who recently left TP are dear to many of us.....it was a sad day. I hope and pray that their courage will strengthen others, and help to bring about the long needed changes that TP so desperately needs to make.
Re: Turning Point Church World Outreach Center-Tell Your Story
Posted by:
Jael
()
Date: May 01, 2009 10:53PM
Thank you Attender, for staying with this blog, I do hope and pray you and others like you can find the truth for yourselves. Yes, you are right about testing everything against God's word. That statement is what got me KICKED out of TP. Over 2 years ago, I had my questions and red flags I had tried to go to the source of those questions and red flags,... Pastor Mike. Mike was an appoarchable pastor when my family first started attending TP of course that was right after some kind of exodus. Which was not discussed, all my family knew at the time was some wounding had happened. Since we were not part of the church at that time we didn't question anything. Hind sight has been toyed with about this, but like most difficult opposite opinions MUMMs the word. I get a picture of the Ostrich's head in the sand.
I recall in a Sunday sermon while TP was still meeting at 8th Street (Ole Fireman's Bingo Hall) building "Possessing The Land" campaign was just starting up. Mike talked about being content with what God had given you, No, less we as Americans live in abundance. We can live on less, so TP was PUSHING sell all excess items and put the money into the campaign. Forgo Vacations, Expresso s, etc..., then a little over 2 months later, Mike's family moved into their present home (unfinished at the time) valued over $600,000. This was hushed, (My first red flag about secrets in Leadership), I have repented since but at the time I was grumbling to friends. Then 2/3 months later Mike surprised his kids with a trip to Disneyland. Hmmm. All of this happened as Leadership was PUSHING Possessing the Land. Then there was the Budget, it use to be one could see where the money was going to, who was paid what and what for. It changed to Staff - $lumpsum - no longer was it available to see who or what was paid. When I tried to make an appointment with the source, Mike, I was intervened by Kari Lewis and Jeff Barnes on two separate occasions and told, "Pastor Mike is a busy man, tell me and I'll pass it on to him." A flashing Danger sign, red flag, bells were a ringing. I felt like at the time Mike is a busy man? and what am I? I work two jobs and have a family and a church that has demands of me. That a side, I knew if I did tell them my concerns I would be labeled gossiper, divisive, causing disunity, etc... . I was in a Catch 22, tell them or not I was still labeled gossiper, divisive, and causing disunity. I said, "No, thanks I really need to talk to Mike about this one on one." Well, I never got that appointment. Soon after I was talked to by a leader, in that meeting I was asked if I felt it is O.K. to question leadership? My response got me KICKED OUT!!!!! I said, "Yes, It is in the bible for us to test and weigh ALL things..." That is all I got out when this leader went to attack mode, saying that I didn't read my bible, I didn't pray, I didn't worship; When I asked, "What? what is going on?, ... ." I was told to leave and not in any kind, gracious, loving way. I have seen and been a vitcim to TP's abusive repoofing, over and over, I could never worship enough, dance enough, be spiritual enough. I have found a true lack of the greatest and second greatest commandment given to us, Love the Lord your God with all of your heart and the second being love your neighbor.
I'll save the rest of the story for another time.
I recall in a Sunday sermon while TP was still meeting at 8th Street (Ole Fireman's Bingo Hall) building "Possessing The Land" campaign was just starting up. Mike talked about being content with what God had given you, No, less we as Americans live in abundance. We can live on less, so TP was PUSHING sell all excess items and put the money into the campaign. Forgo Vacations, Expresso s, etc..., then a little over 2 months later, Mike's family moved into their present home (unfinished at the time) valued over $600,000. This was hushed, (My first red flag about secrets in Leadership), I have repented since but at the time I was grumbling to friends. Then 2/3 months later Mike surprised his kids with a trip to Disneyland. Hmmm. All of this happened as Leadership was PUSHING Possessing the Land. Then there was the Budget, it use to be one could see where the money was going to, who was paid what and what for. It changed to Staff - $lumpsum - no longer was it available to see who or what was paid. When I tried to make an appointment with the source, Mike, I was intervened by Kari Lewis and Jeff Barnes on two separate occasions and told, "Pastor Mike is a busy man, tell me and I'll pass it on to him." A flashing Danger sign, red flag, bells were a ringing. I felt like at the time Mike is a busy man? and what am I? I work two jobs and have a family and a church that has demands of me. That a side, I knew if I did tell them my concerns I would be labeled gossiper, divisive, causing disunity, etc... . I was in a Catch 22, tell them or not I was still labeled gossiper, divisive, and causing disunity. I said, "No, thanks I really need to talk to Mike about this one on one." Well, I never got that appointment. Soon after I was talked to by a leader, in that meeting I was asked if I felt it is O.K. to question leadership? My response got me KICKED OUT!!!!! I said, "Yes, It is in the bible for us to test and weigh ALL things..." That is all I got out when this leader went to attack mode, saying that I didn't read my bible, I didn't pray, I didn't worship; When I asked, "What? what is going on?, ... ." I was told to leave and not in any kind, gracious, loving way. I have seen and been a vitcim to TP's abusive repoofing, over and over, I could never worship enough, dance enough, be spiritual enough. I have found a true lack of the greatest and second greatest commandment given to us, Love the Lord your God with all of your heart and the second being love your neighbor.
I'll save the rest of the story for another time.
Re: Turning Point Church World Outreach Center-Tell Your Story
Posted by:
Painfuljourney
()
Date: May 02, 2009 01:26AM
Quote
TurningPointReject
Welcome JAEL. Thanks for sharing.
M&M its good to see you. I think your class is a great idea.
Miki God is your strength! Be gentle with TPCattender. I think we can extend grace and still be cautious. By the way, I am glad you have posted and hopefully one day you will feel the time is right to share your story.
For some reason, I have had a calm peace come over me regarding TPc and all that God is doing there. This is new for me. I am unable to put my finger on anything specific but I keep thinking, "The battle is the Lords". Pray for TPc. They are at a critical time and place. Continue to pray for Mike and Cyndi as they need to experience God's conviction is deep and profound ways; pray for the Elders and the Deacons-all are wrestling with the truth and are struggling with how to proceed. Pray for the children of these families. Please pray for the children. Pray for new people coming into the doors of TPc that their eyes would be open to the truth-new people see disharmony sooner than regular attenders. Pray for their protection. Pray for those who are confronted with the reality of leaving their church home-they will experience real grief-as each of you have. Pray, friends, Pray.
I have also had such a calm sense of peace regarding tpcwoc. Can anyone else testify of this?
It is God looking out for us!
PFJ
Re: Turning Point Church World Outreach Center-Tell Your Story
Posted by:
Painfuljourney
()
Date: May 02, 2009 01:30AM
tpcwocattender,
Thank you for your testimony!
PFJ
Thank you for your testimony!
PFJ
Quote
tpcwocattender
My story – cliff not style:
Simply put where there is smoke there is usually fire. I will say that smoke is common in a church, religion is such a passionate subject and as we all know wars are fought over it. So, I didn't get too alarmed over a little smoke however a few weeks ago a large plume was spotted. It was the smoke of a great young couple that left the church. I would have never thought that these two could leave or would leave. I respect them even though I really don't know them. I told my wife 'if those two left we are in trouble!' That may seem to take away from others who left, this is not my intension. It is just the preverbal straw that broke the camel’s back. I had been asking questions before but admittedly I was being passive aggressive and not wholeheartedly searching. I have been aware of this sight for some months, I think December some time. I was concerned but not alarmed. I have to say my years of being in the church have numbed me to the ugly side of church, this is what I perceived most of this forum was. I will be humble and say that I did not recognize some of the false doctrine that is entrenched in the church. It has been cleverly disguised and sold with a nice bow on top. Honestly I don’t think we are teaching the full ‘word of faith’ doctrine but we are not too far from that. I was asked to read the book ‘under cover’ within my first few months of attended. If fact it was told that I ‘needed’ to read it. I half heartedly went through it but found it to lack meaty doctrine and dismissed it. This sight got me to go to page 147 and read the statement where John says something to the affect that ‘I have a new revelation. Oh, and by the way, you won’t find it in the bible. It is a special message from God to me to you.’ I am wondering how we can teach this false doctrine and expect each other to walk it out. That seems to be a big miss by the leadership of the church. How can we test everything against the word of God if it is being added to? I digress. This is where I am, asking questions and seeking answers.
Re: Turning Point Church World Outreach Center-Tell Your Story
Posted by:
LearningPoint
()
Date: May 02, 2009 10:46AM
Quote
tpcwocattender
My story – cliff not style:
Simply put where there is smoke there is usually fire. I will say that smoke is common in a church, religion is such a passionate subject and as we all know wars are fought over it. So, I didn't get too alarmed over a little smoke however a few weeks ago a large plume was spotted. It was the smoke of a great young couple that left the church. I would have never thought that these two could leave or would leave. I respect them even though I really don't know them. I told my wife 'if those two left we are in trouble!' That may seem to take away from others who left, this is not my intension. It is just the preverbal straw that broke the camel’s back. I had been asking questions before but admittedly I was being passive aggressive and not wholeheartedly searching. I have been aware of this sight for some months, I think December some time. I was concerned but not alarmed. I have to say my years of being in the church have numbed me to the ugly side of church, this is what I perceived most of this forum was. I will be humble and say that I did not recognize some of the false doctrine that is entrenched in the church. It has been cleverly disguised and sold with a nice bow on top. Honestly I don’t think we are teaching the full ‘word of faith’ doctrine but we are not too far from that. I was asked to read the book ‘under cover’ within my first few months of attended. If fact it was told that I ‘needed’ to read it. I half heartedly went through it but found it to lack meaty doctrine and dismissed it. This sight got me to go to page 147 and read the statement where John says something to the affect that ‘I have a new revelation. Oh, and by the way, you won’t find it in the bible. It is a special message from God to me to you.’ I am wondering how we can teach this false doctrine and expect each other to walk it out. That seems to be a big miss by the leadership of the church. How can we test everything against the word of God if it is being added to? I digress. This is where I am, asking questions and seeking answers.
Thanks for this sincere testimony, Attender.
Also, please accept my sincere apology for over-harshness in my previous post to you.
I am not writing what follows to excuse any wrong thinking/accusing on my part, but only to explain that I honestly sensed a lack of sincerity and wanted you to come clean or leave this particular thread. I'm glad I was wrong, and I'm glad you're staying. I appreciate your willingness to "hash things out."
Re: Turning Point Church World Outreach Center-Tell Your Story
Posted by:
Daughter of Dorcas
()
Date: May 02, 2009 11:51AM
Who is the young couple? Dan and Emily?
Re: Turning Point Church World Outreach Center-Tell Your Story
Posted by:
tpcwocattender
()
Date: May 02, 2009 11:53AM
LP. Thank you. I should have been more open at the beginning and avoided a lot of trouble.
Re: Turning Point Church World Outreach Center-Tell Your Story
Posted by:
tpcwocattender
()
Date: May 02, 2009 01:11PM
Quote
Daughter of Dorcas
Who is the young couple? Dan and Emily?
Yes
Re: Turning Point Church World Outreach Center-Tell Your Story
Posted by:
BraveHeart
()
Date: May 02, 2009 11:15PM
I finally had a day off her to sit down and get caught up with all it's been posted in the last week.
Tpcwocattender
I like the way you pointed out the most obvious “Simply put where there is smoke there is usually fire.”
I would like to complement everybody here on this blog for it for engaging in such healthy dialogue and debates.
I believe in a healthy church. The pastors, elders and church staffers should be open to questions, that they are approachable and honest. I see so many examples in the New Testament of how approachable Jesus was like wise pastors need to be approachable.
What we see with Mike and his spiritual father Tony Cunningham is they are not approachable they are secluded and unaccountable for what they are teaching. Meanwhile they continue to line there pockets with money from the congregation.
They have created an unhealthy church.
BraveHeart
Tpcwocattender
I like the way you pointed out the most obvious “Simply put where there is smoke there is usually fire.”
I would like to complement everybody here on this blog for it for engaging in such healthy dialogue and debates.
I believe in a healthy church. The pastors, elders and church staffers should be open to questions, that they are approachable and honest. I see so many examples in the New Testament of how approachable Jesus was like wise pastors need to be approachable.
What we see with Mike and his spiritual father Tony Cunningham is they are not approachable they are secluded and unaccountable for what they are teaching. Meanwhile they continue to line there pockets with money from the congregation.
They have created an unhealthy church.
BraveHeart
Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.