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Brokenhearted
Do you have concerns about the finances at TP?
Yes, I have. There is a level of transparency that is common among churches that is lacking here at tpc. The have budget meetings that are open to the congregation but these do not talk about SOMA. I am not so consumed by what a particular person makes. I am more interested in how our churches resources can do Gods work in our community. I believe tpc could do better.

Do you know how the resources at TP are used? Do you have specific concerns outside of SOMA? What are your concerns about SOMA?

Do you know where the money from the stewardship campaign has gone?
I have not checked. I know some went to the new SOMA building. That was part of the plan though. I have not asked to see the current balance of the checking account. I have not had a reason to.

Well, I can tell you that about half of the stewardship money is gone (maybe more?). It was moved to the general fund b/c the income was not meeting the budget. I have to ask how that is good stewardship? If that is the case then no, I don't think they can do that without congregational approval? I will look into that for sure.

Do you know what Pastor Mike's salary is?
I have heard the rumors. I don't have proof. I would address this not as an issue of how much he makes rather how it impacts the churches ability to provide services to the community.

I am not currently in a position to provide *proof* but I have had it confirmed by reliable sources that Mike makes $10,000 a month. I would guess that high of a salary is effecting the services to the community when things like the benevolent ministry, breakfast for the set up crew, not providing the necessary supplies for the ministries are being cut, but Mike is still receiving his salary. If that is true it is not helping. He should be making a salary comparable to the average of his congregation or community. That seams high though I have no data to support that. It is a tough subject, one that I hate because I don't think we always need to put every aspect of a pastors life into a glass house. I do understand the issue if he is making more money than what I stated above. I don't know how I would handle it from my position in the church. I have no authority to lower it, I don't think making a stink will help. I guess I will pray that those responsible will review it and make sure it is in line.

Have you heard that when anyone on the salary board disagrees with giving Pastor Mike even more, their loyalty comes into question?
I have not

I have. Anyone who disagrees with *honoring* Mike financially is shamed into *unity*. I have not seen it so I guess I can not comment further.

Do you understand the apostolic ministry?
I understand how Mike being an apostle looks like at tpc. There are several ways to view an apostolic calling. I am not ready to lump Mike's calling in with some of the radicals if that is what you are implying. This is something that is still an ongoing investigation of mine.

I'm not implying anything. I'm saying that Mike as an apostle, w/out accountability is not biblical. In fact, the bible warns up time and time again not to follow false prophets and apostles.I am looking into what or the lack of structure in the church. I will develop my own opinion of this. I understand about the warning given in the word - that is why I am looking into everything!

Do you understand why it's not biblical?
What is not biblical? Pastor Mike's interpretation of his calling?

Creating a new denomination in which you are the sole leader, the top authority. Did you know that Pastor Mike can't be fired? He will remain in his position above TP (and all TP church plants) ? Did you know that each church tithes to him?That is new news to me, I know about United Global Ministries and that Mike would be lead elder of that board. I have not seen bylaws to support your claim or not. There are so many denominations that the creation of another doesn't send up red flags to me.

Do you know why it has not been announced to the general body?
Yes, that was Mike's choice. That apparently will chance soon.

I pray that you are right. How long are you willing to wait for that to change?It is not a wait and see game for me. Either I will be able to support the church after I finish my questioning or not. If it takes a month or a day it doesn't matter.

Do you know why staff was told not to talk about it, or to answer any questions about it?
Not true, I have had absolutely no issue asking questions of staff or elders.

You ask, but are you getting answers? There WAS a memo sent out to all staff members instructing them to direct all questions to Jeff Barnes or Kari Lewis...nobody else should be talking about it.I have got some answers, others are being 'researched' and some I have not got in front of the right individual who can answer it. I don't waste my time with someone who doesn't have the answer right off the cuff. If they don't know I will talk to the person who does. If they can't answer it then they clearly don't care to know or don't have authority to know. I find this approach streamlines the who process, I hate asking the same question over and over.

Do you know why Pastor Jackie resigned?
Yes, I spoke to her personally.

Emily Masten?
Yes

Mauro Lasso?
No

Susan Eskelin?
No

There are members of leadership that do not agree with the new direction that Mike is leading the church. They can't stop him, so instead of staying, they are leaving.....

Do you know what might have changed so drastically that a woman who spent 12 years (maybe more?) of her life devoted to the kingdom under the direction of TP would suddenly up and leave?
Who are we speaking of?

I was originally thinking of Pastor Jackie when I wrote this....but I have since considered all the people that are leaving TP. Do you know how many years these people have invested in TP? Do you think that these servants in Christ are leaving on a whim? Do you not think that perhaps they see things, or know things that would cause them to turn away from TP? These people are not falling away, they are not forsaking Christ. They are leaving b/c of the very things that TP is doing against the people of God, against scripture, against God himself.Its troublesome, I agree with you.

Do you know why Pastor Jackie's resignation wasn't announced to the general body?
I know what the thinking was and whole heartily disagree and told the leadership I disagreed.

Were you given an opportunity to voice your disagreement?Yes, several times. I was not discouraged in giving my viewpoint.

Have you watched the video that Braveheart posted about the word-faith doctrine?
Not yet, I plan to.

Please do, it is fill of excellent info.I watched most of it but lost my connection and have not finished. I hope this doesn't put me in a place where my proceeding comments will taken back after I finish. He used the term 'clear think charismatic" I need to look into some of the more subtle undertones of the teachings lately to tell you if I believe they are moving away from that. Right now, sitting in front of my computer I would put TPC into that camp, the 'clear thinking charismatic'. I have heard and made notes of balance that would suggest that though the teaching is that God does heal, want us to be well, want us to be the source of eliminating poverty and hunger (us being the church and the vehicle our money), wants us to prosper, etc. I have notes that from the pulpit it has been stated that perspective is key, prosperity does not mean just money, that God does choice when and if to heal, that we are to love even if God chooses not to do (insert prayer request). I understand and completely get the concern that we are bending or in some views gone to the word of faith teaching. I also will be willing to admit that I might have missed it. I could have not connected the dots so to say. I have been acutely aware of the possibility that this could be TPC's doctrine and therefore recently have been looking for it. I can not speak for any sermon since I would guess before Mike and Cyndi left at the end of the year. Again and to finish this, I am looking and listening for myself.

Are you aware of what's being taught at SOMA?
No, I have not attended. I know what is rumored by those that have not attended. My questioning of graduates have yielded inconsistent answers.

Your questions of graduates are inconsistent b/c what's being taught is ever changing. The students are being taught to worship Mike. They have been taught that a deacons role in the church is to serve the leaders (when it clearly states in the bible that a deacon's role is to serve the body).What does 'worship mike' mean exactly. Can you elaborate? I have a dear friend who is a deacon, probably one of my best friends and he does not agree with that statement. I have another friend, not as dear, who too is a deacon and does not agree with that. I guess for now I will have to disagree with that as a blanket statement encompassing all deacons. A select few? I don't know.

Have you seen the evidence that the leaders at TP are being worshiped, and that leadership is encouraging it?
I have seen people take what I would call an unhealthy interest in what leadership thinks of them. This is common in every church I have attended. The one thing to remember is that this is not usually encouraged by the leader. In the case of tpc I have no evidence that it is encouraged. You could use the 'honor' or 'service' as evidence of this. I would not fault that line of thinking, it has merit.

I would agree with you that this is common. However, I have witnessed leaders encourage this....look around you, how many men and women look like M&C?I don't think I will even take this one further, it seams a little unfair to use appearance as a measuring devise. I have not witnessed anyone encouraging someone or even me to try and gain favor. For now I am going to still disagree from my perspective.

Do you understand that the lack of transparency, the lies and the secrets that TP leaders perpetuate is NOT the way a church should be run?
I agree with the lack of transparency 100%. The others (lies, secrets and deception) I am investigating.

I pray that you get answers.....we all deserve them. We'll see. Only time and a few more meetings will tell.

Do you disagree with the abusiveness that takes place to keep the body in line, to keep them from asking questions, to keep them in unity.....?
I ask questions and have not been abused so I can't speak to that. I believe there should be unity. I guess I don't know how to answer the main question mainly because I have not seen or experienced it.

Well, I am very glad that you have not been abused. I am sorry to say though, that is not true of many (most?). I have witnessed it, I have experienced it myself. Can you share what you think unity looks like, how it looks at TP, and how it should be maintained? To what extremes is it okay to go to keep unity?

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tpcwocattender
I feel like this is a no win situation. If I agree with something you don’t then we are into a deep and divisive theological debate. If I don’t see it the same way you do I am misled. I know that isn’t what you intended, just feels that way. I don’t have a problem with sharing though so I will do this. First I will give you my answer, then I will tell you if I think from my perspective it is going on at TPC, if necessary I will give you why I feel the church has that reputation. Here we go…

Spiritual Parenting NO – I would have said that I have never seen it but I did hear Pastor Mike refer to Jeff Moores as his ‘son in the spirit’. This has got me on a mission to see what that means. I think we can make too much out of something is we don’t ask enough questions. I have had people as me to ‘father’ them through a tough time. I don’t think this is spiritual parenting because it is not an authoritative position but one of lovingly helping someone and ‘father’ is a word we both understood as to how he wanted me to help him.

Double Tithing ? – this is between you and God. If you feel God is asking you to give more than do it out of obedience to God. I have not had it taught at TPC. I have had discussions that the center was around the idea that it would be great if we could live on less money in order to impact God’s kingdom more. They teach tithe and offering as two different gifts at TPC where other churches do not. I see the distinction and don’t have a problem with that interpretation of the Word. Tithing is an issue of the heart, if we are giving to get then it is sin.

Honoring YES – I don’t see honoring someone for what they do as a problem. It is an issue of the heart. I honor my father and mother and it is not sin. If I am honoring someone because I want to gain favor then I have a problem. Honoring can manifest itself in so many different ways. I have read several people’s posts about the service done for the pastors around their homes. I think taken a step back and examining the situation this is a very loving way to show your pastor that you appreciate the sacrifice and toll being a pastor takes on your family time. I have friends who are pastors and the idea of someone out of love for them and wanting to do something special for them is in their words ‘an amazing act of love’ that they would humbility accept. Now, if we take a step back in and look at TPC I understand the issue people have and believe there is merit to their concern as to the level of “honoring” being shown at TPC.

Covenant Relationship ? – I will be honest, I have no idea what this is. I know that there are examples of Covenant Relationships in the OT but don’t know the connection to cult teachings that are possibility going on at TPC.

Covering NO – I know about ‘Under Cover’, I read it and did not agree with it. I have seen that TPC leans on this teaching more than I expected. There are a lot of teachings that are somewhat benign in nature. I honestly didn’t see the harm in this book until further review. I think the teaching can be used to control and I don’t like it.

Healing YES – I can only assume you mean healing in general. That you are asking me if God heals today. Yes, and amen.

Word of Faith NO – This is the touchiest one you have on your list. It is a buzz word today and some teachings are not full on ‘word of faith’ teachings. Word of Faith teaching if taken to the “gods, little g” level is heresy through and through. Does it exist to that level at TPC, no. Is there a foundation being laid right now, you would have a case for that.

Prosperity YES – It is all perspective. If I have the right perspective then my idea of prosperity will be in check. If I understand the will of God in my life then I will look at the very breath I breathe as prosperity. I have appreciated TPC’s attempt to balance the heavy handed prosperity teaching. They do not speak solely of money but it is mentioned and mentioned every time. I would like to see more of the teaching that true prosperity has nothing to do with money or stuff. God promises that we would have food, shelter and clothes in Matthew. If you are homeless in a shelter wearing torn clothes and eating day old bread He is faithful! Joy is in who we are in Christ not what we have. You could be that person I described and be happy as Bill Gates if you had right perspective. So do I believe in prosperity, absolutely. Do I think people have a unhealthy view of what prosperity and that TPC is contributing to that perspective, I can’t say no.

Demonic Possession YES – Like Healing I can only assume that you want me to answer that demons are real and they possess people. Yes I do.

Return of the Apostolic Ministry ? – Did it ever go away? As for me, I am on the fence on this one. A dangerous place to be, I know. If being an apostle means you love to plant churches then I have no problem with it. If it means power and ultimate authority then I have a problem with it.

Accountable only To God ? – ultimately we are will answer only to Him so I guess loosely I agree. I understand your direction you want this to go though. Does someone only answer to God and have not earthly authority in which they should submit ourselves. That doesn’t jive with the word of God. If we feel we have no authority over us as some kind of technicality in the word (just being facetious) then we should still submit to someone because it is healthy.

How did I do?