With Desteni, it's one scam leading to another. A new member of their forum asks about the Desteni view on Kevin Trudeau & GIN
[desteni.co.za]

Avery Williams [www.youtube.com] replies that

I have met Kevin Trudeau personaly on several occations and have trained with him and I am a level 4 visionary member. I know he has a great desire to help this world and he is revealing what has helped him make billions of dollars in the present system . From his own lips has said he does not know every thing but he is highly teachable which he goes into great length to explain in the CD set "Your Wish is Your command." It is my intention to reach as high level with GIN and present the Desteni materials to Kevin and the council as I know they will be receptive and be open to present it to the GIN community. I believe that the materials in GIN sets the ground work for Desteni as well as providing highly effective training tools and systems for sales and marketing. Kevin himself in my opinion is a master marketer and has taken GIN into 159 countries in a period of less then two years with tens of thousands members. GIN is a very effective avenue to use as an entry level for people to eventually join the Desteni "I" process. I have had members from GIN joined the Desteni I process already and I have quite a few at the present time looking into the Desteni material and showing interests.

Kevin Trudeau with his Global Information Network (GIN) is a well-known fraud.

[en.wikipedia.org]
[captainsml.hubpages.com]
[www.skepdic.com]

[forum.culteducation.com]

extract from Wikipedia:


"The Money-Making Secrets “They” Don't Want You to Know About

Published in 2009, the book says it gives tools on how to use the Law of Attraction to manifest readers' desires. The book also says it contains key links to using the Law of Attraction that are missing in other publications. Among the claims made in the book's infomercial is Trudeau's assertion to have virtually flunked out of high school.[21] He also says he was "taken in" by a mysterious group called "The Brotherhood" that taught him the secrets that he is now widely announcing in his book. There is also an invitation at the conclusion of the series to join a "Global Information Network," claimed to be an exclusive group of "highly influential, affluent, and freedom-orientated people from various business, social and economic sectors" who offer advice to its members.[22] The group operates out of the country of Nevis and employs the Law of Attraction as its principal wealth generator, a concept regarded by most in the scientific community as at-best pseudoscience.[23][24]
[edit]
Your Wish Is Your Command

The Your Wish Is Your Command series claims to be an audio recording of a private two-day lecture which takes place at an undisclosed location in the Swiss Alps. The CD set claims to offer a "hidden key" to take complete control of one's life and learn how to manifest one's every personal and financial wishes. Trudeau claims the knowledge unveiled here will "program your brain to be a transmitter pulling into your life every desire you have."

Don't all these scam artists sound alike! It's amazing. The mere fact that this man has
'served time' and partnered with his 'cellmate' on the outside to start up an MLM should
be a huge red flag. "undisclosed" location in the Swiss Alps...why do people fall for this
stuff. If you are going to take a course in anything legal and on the up and up, the company,
school, group would send you the 'address' of where it is. What is wrong with these people?
Avery seems to be very involved and has recruited members for destenicult.... now what
the heck does that tell any rationally thinking person!
I know that I sound rather condesending and I certainly don't mean to. I can see if one is
down on their luck, how a group like destenicult would be appealing, (well no I can't actually)
but once you see, read and hear all this stuff, don't you ask yourself if you're in the right place
to prosper for both you and the world (in destenicult's place).

I also have an observation. I just wanted to see if anyone sees it this way. There is destenicult
educational software being sold by Katie and Cameron. Well, now they seem to have written an
ebook on sex and sucess. Normal, right? It's an ebook that has 11 interviews with sunette. Now
granted I didnt purchase it so I don't know, but if I were looking for an educational software system
and instructor for my child, Katie and Cameron wouldn't be on my list after seeing this ebook.
It's unfortunate that no one will ever respond to any info requests. Then I'd know.

As shown, Kevin Trudeau is a longtime professional scammer and conman, and has been at it for ages.
When he gets caught, he just changes the names around, and keeps going, hoping that the fines will be less than the profits. A totally ruthless con-artist.

What is sad, is that person has been totally conned by Kevin Trudeau and his scam rehash of The Secret.

The FTC has a series of pages on Kevin Trudeau, and of course, the stuff that makes it to the FTC is only a tiny portion of the entire scams being run.
Search the FTC website for a massive string of pages on Kevin Trudeau's illegal scams.

Desteni and Kevin Trudeau are the same thing, a moneymaking scam.

---------------FTC quote-----------
www.ftc.gov/opa/2009/01/trudeau.shtm
For Release: January 15, 2009
Judge Orders Kevin Trudeau to Pay More Than $37 Million for False Claims About Weight-Loss Book

A federal judge has ordered infomercial marketer Kevin Trudeau to pay more than $37 million for violating a 2004 stipulated order by misrepresenting the content of his book, “The Weight Loss Cure ‘They’ Don’t Want You to Know About.”

In August 2008, Judge Robert W. Gettleman of the U.S. District Court for the Northern District of Illinois had ordered Trudeau to pay more than $5 million and banned him, for three years, from producing or publishing infomercials for products in which he has an interest. The ruling confirmed an earlier contempt finding, the second such finding against Trudeau in the past four years.

Urged by both the FTC and Trudeau to reconsider aspects of its August order, on November 4 Judge Gettleman amended the judgment to $37,616,161, the amount consumers paid in response to the deceptive infomercials. The judge also revised the three-year ban to prohibit Trudeau from “disseminating or assisting others in disseminating” any infomercial for any informational publication in which he has an interest. On December 11, the court denied Trudeau’s request to reconsider or stay this ruling.

The FTC filed its first lawsuit against Trudeau in 1998, charging him with making false and misleading claims in infomercials for products he claimed could cause significant weight loss and cure addictions to heroin, alcohol, and cigarettes, as well as enable users to achieve a photographic memory. A stipulated court order resolving that case barred Trudeau from making false claims for products in the future, ordered him to pay $500,000 in consumer redress, and established a $500,000 performance bond to ensure compliance....(cont'd)
---------------------

Just an observation:
Both men, Kevin Trudeau and Bernard Poolman have acheived their notariaty
by taking advantage of those people who are emotionally and physically needy. It's not to say, that
either are 'dumb' guys. It's ashame that they have both gone from scam to scam throughout their
lives, taking advantage of people, rather than use their talent to better the world, (in destenicult's case anyway).
As the old saying goes: It all comes out in the wash.

I have been researching Desteni. That is all aspects of it. Their forum, their store, their you tube
video accounts, etc. Also, I have been researching those who are trying to get the truth out. There are
many who wish to uncover the veil of secrecy that Desteni seems to hold, along with it's members.
This seems to be such an unhealthy lifestyle and I can tell you I saw it take down my "friend".
I have tried to speak to members on Facebook, on their personal blogs with no response. It certainly
apprears that they are against any views other than there own.

I did find an interesting site [wiki.answers.com] at which anyone can go and there and add to it
if they please. It's a way of exposing Desteni for the deceitful people they (Bernard ) is. I think
it's certainly worth a try and I invite all hear who want to let the world know the truth about Desteni,
to join in.

Also, a very good site is [www.Destenicult.com] , which is very informative.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/15/2011 02:00AM by truthbheard.

As you readers know, I keep an eye on the destenicult website always. Today, I was reading the
latest posts, and came across one by 'Valentin'. He seems to be a very nice guy, but so misguided.
This is part of his post:

[[i]u]At Desteni we are suggesting an Equal Money System where you will be obligated to work for only 4 years and then the system will provide you with all the things that you need until you die. This is possible because in current system which is based on debt, profit and scarcity, the products are made to break fast, thus it is estimated that up to 90% of all natural resources, energy and time consumption is due to need of perpetuating consumerism. In the EMS the products will be made to last long, there will be no competition, and you will need to work for only 4 years in order to keep the system functional.
[/u][/i]

I find it hard to believe that an adult would actually subscribe to this "equal money system", which is in itself so childlike.
The idea that everyone would have to work for 4 years, say from ages 20-24, then do what? I guess somehow destenicult
expects a check or money... oh I don't think this ems will have money, sorry.

Valentin didn't however, go on to mention how this plan will be implemented. What if I choose to: 'be a farmer, doctor,
artist, busdriver, police officer, etc for more than 4 years? Will I have this choice? What will I do from age 24 - my old age?
Valentin and bernard, you have GOT to explain the details if you expect the WORLD to jump on board!

I say it is inate in a person to want to work and be self sufficient. To feel as if they have worked towards a goal (ie: car, house,
college tuition for children, etc.). You at destenicult are assuming that 'WE THE PEOPLE' want to be taken care of, and I don't
think that the average person does. Even those who are living on $2.00/day want the opportunity to better themselves and provide for their families. There are ways to make it work Valentin, but not with the equal money system you describe.

Again, it is very unfortunate that destenicult will not let opposing views be posted to open up discussion. But they won't let us on. Their silly loss.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/18/2011 12:19AM by concernedmom83.

Watching these sects and cults, you come to the conclusion that some human's can be trained and conditioned to literally believe ANYTHING.
They can be trained to believe other human's are lizards from another dimension, or that there is a UFO under the earth with aliens controlling the world.

Those who runs these cults know this very well.
They know many people can be trained to believe ANYTHING.

That is why they know not to just lie, but to tell a Big Lie, as then people might believe it.


If someone could photograph Poolman's secret bookshelf, you would find many books on covert persuasion, mind-control, brainwashing, and how to do this to people.
That is all Desteni is.
An exercise in group persuasion.

All the Desteni "content" is simply meant to distract their members, and keep them busy.
The Desteni 'content' is designed to not make sense and confuse their members.

Always remember, the "content" of these kind of sects is irrelevant.

Its like going to see a magician, and focusing on his pretty assistant, or the flashing lights and smoke. Those are all meant to distract your ATTENTION from the TRICK.

Excellent point The Anticult. I guess I get caught up in the rediculousness of it all, because I find myself
debating it very often 'in real time'.

Thanks for making the point, bernard certainly does know what he is doing, that we can both see loud and clear.

First, let me say that I agree with 'The Anticult's' description of destenicult MO as a cult. This is just another example of it

Here again, is another post referring to what some would consider to be rather insulting, ignorant and off the wall post written on the destenicult forum, written by a member.

In the Equal Money System, the idea of 'God' will be something that someone may choose to participate in for sentimental purposes. The idea of 'God' will no longer have any influence on how any part of the system functions. The idea of 'God' will no longer be allowed to be used to manipulate people. It will be considered child abuse to teach one's children about the idea of 'God' - as this is a personal idea that one holds onto due to one's own fears, beliefs, and accepted self limitations. Attempting to brainwash your children to support your own fears and ideas and beliefs will no longer be allowed.

As I have stated before, I am a believer in God, so this particular post was most offensive to me.

The idea of 'God' will no longer be allowed to be used to manipulate people.

I think you have your manipulators mixed up. Your group's guru, boss or whatever you choose to call him is a dictionary description of manipulation. So is destenicult saying that in this ems, it's members will be forced to abandon God, if they believe in him? I mean you are talking the 'world' all 8 billon, correct?

Maybe you will tell us HOW this ems is going to be implemented. All of you keep tackling such unnecessary subjects in order to get yourself ready for the 'launch'. If I sound sarcastic, please know that I am being just that.

From what I have read alot of destenicult members have been (and still are I'm sure) believers in God. Why this subject? Because of morals and values, traits that bernard would just love to throw out of society.

So to sum up, again you are all way, way, way off track. You need some courses in strategic planning. Stay on point, don't keep going off track with self forgiveness. I guess by now you are so brainwashed, you believe all this stuff... for 2 days, see if you can just do normal day to day things, not preach to your family and friends, no computer (this is a big challenge, I know). No writing yourself out, etc. Just see how your 2 days go. And you can blog about it and let us know.


Finally, just think of it GOD WOULD BE CONSIDERED CHILD ABUSE!! If ever there was a cult mantra, this one takes the cake.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/19/2011 12:40PM by concernedmom83.

Dear concernedmom83, I am an ex-cult member of a cult with a relatively similar believe structure and behaviour as Desteni, and have spent the past year educating myself on cult psychology (which falls under social psychology) and personality disorders of cult leaders.

I'm afraid when it comes to destructive cults, South Africans are rather uninformed, because the problem isn't as prolific here as it is in the States for example

From Captive Hearts Captive Minds:

Quote

In America today an estimated 5000 cults have affected over 10 million people. Whether their focus is religion, politics, therapy or self-improvement, cults exact an inestimable cost, both emotionally and financially, from those who join. Sensitively written by two former cult members, this book provides the hands-on help ex-cultists need to recover from manipulation and mind control.

Education is the only way to combat cults. I will share my most helpful sources with you.

The Cult Leader - Personality Disorders:

Firstly, to understand the poor psychological condition of the cult leader/s, one needs to have a good grasp on narcissism and psychopathology. Cult leaders are without exception all narcissists. Narcissitic Personality Disorder (NPD) is a poorly understood psychological disease. Psychopathology often enters the picture with cult leaders as well.

Narcissism is frequently misunderstood as excessive egotism. In fact, what distinguishes the narcissist is not the strength of their egos, but their weak sense of self, their thin attachment to any tradition or community, their inability to form lasting relationships, or to take comfort from the past. In a word, narcissists are uprooted persons. They are prone to exalted fantasies of fame and power because these help to firm up a chronically weak sense of self.

A great deal has been written about narcissism. See here.

The fraudulent money scams they're perpetrating might make Snakes in Suits: When Psychopaths Go to Work a must read as well.

Also check out The Sociopath Next Door

The above reading is crucial for understanding what you are dealing with. There is no reasoning, rationalizing or talking sense with a malignant narcissist or sociopath.

The bizarre belief system and behaviour of the cult leader also make it likely that he is schizophrenic.

From Captive Hearts Captive Minds - Madeline Landau Tobias and Janja Lalich (p. 67):

Quote

The Cult Leader as Psychopath

Glibness/Superficial charm

Glibness is a hallmark of psychopaths. They are able to use language effortlessly to beguile, confuse, and convince. They are captivating storytellers. They exude self-confidence and are able to spin a web that intrigues others and pulls them into the psychopath's life. Most of all, they are persuasive. Frequently they have the capacity to destroy their critics verbally or disarm them emotionally.

Manipulative and Cunning

Cult leaders do not recognize the individuality or rights of others, which makes all self-serving behaviors permissible. The hallmark of the psychopath is the psychopathic maneuver; which is essentially interpersonal manipulation "based on charm. The manipulator appears to be helpful, charming, even ingratiating or seductive, but is covertly hostile, domineering....The victim is perceived as an aggressor, competitor, or merely as an instrument to be used....The manipulation inevitably becomes the end-all and is no longer qualified by the reality principle." In other words, there are no checks on the psychopath's behavior - anything goes. The Psychopath divides the world into suckers, sinners, and himself. He discharges powerful feelings of terror and rage by dominating and humiliating his victims. He is particularly successful when, through an overlay of charm, he makes an ally of his victim - a process sometimes described as emotional vampirism or emotional terrorism. Examples of this type of manipulation are plentiful in the literature of Jonestown and other cultic groups. It is especially prevalent in the one-on-one cultic relationship, where there is direct involvement with the manipulator.

Grandiose Sense of Self

The cult leader enjoys tremendous feelings of entitlement. He believes everything is owed to him as a right. Preoccupied with his own fantasies, he must always be the center of attention. He presents himself as the "Ultimate One" enlightened, a vehicle of God, a genius, the leader of humankind, and sometimes even the most humble of humble. He has an insatiable need for adulation and attendance. His grandiosity may also be a defense against inner emptiness, depression, and a sense of insignificance. Paranoia often accompanies the grandiosity, reinforcing the isolation of the group and the need for protection against a perceived hostile environment. In this way, he creates an us-versus-them mentality.

Pathological Lying

Psychopaths lie coolly and easily, even when it is obvious they are being untruthful. It is almost impossible for them to be consistently truthful about either a major or minor issue. They lie for no apparent reason, even when it would seem easier and safer to tell the truth. This is sometimes called "crazy lying." Confronting their lies may provoke an unpredictably incense rage or simply a Buddha-like smile.

Another form of lying common among cult leaders is known as pseudologica fantastica, an extension of pathological lying. Leaders tend to create a complex belief system, often about their own powers and abilities, in which they themselves sometimes get caught up. "It is often difficult to determine whether the lies are an actual delusional distortion of reality or are expressed with the conscious or unconscious intent to deceive. These manipulators are rarely original thinkers. Plagiarists and thieves, they seldom credit the true originators of ideas, often co-opting authorship. They are extremely convincing, forceful in the expression of their views, and talented at passing lie detector tests. For them, objective truth does not exist. The only "truth" is whatever will best achieve the outcome that meets their needs. This type of opportunism is very difficult to understand for those who are not psychopaths. For this reason, followers are more apt to invent or go along with all kinds of explanations and rationales for apparent inconsistencies in behavior "I know my guru must have had a good reason for doing this." "He did it because he loves me even though it hurts."

The Christ Complex – Mara Sophia Ellen Weis R.O., ThD.D.


Cult Psychology:

Take Back Your Life: Recovering from Cults and Abusive Relationships

Cults in Our Midst: The Continuing Fight Against Their Hidden Menace

Captive Hearts, Captive Minds: Freedom and Recovery from Cults and Abusive Relationships

Combatting Cult Mind Control: The #1 Best-selling Guide to Protection, Rescue, and Recovery from Destructive Cults

Repairing The Soul After A Cult - Janja Lalich, Ph.D.

Brainwashing: The Science of Thought Control

Rick Ross – Warning Signs

The Guru Papers: Masks of Authoritarian Power

Thought Reform and the Psychology of Totalism: A Study of Brainwashing in China

Cult Recovery 101 - video

Cult Recovery 201 - video

Robert Jay Lifton interviewed by Steve Hassan [See disclaimer concerning Steve Hassan below] July 13th 2011 - video


Social Psychology (optional):

Youtube: The Solomon Asch Conformity Experiment - 4:10 - Groupthink, conformity and suppression of dissent

Sway: The Irresistible Pull of Irrational Behavior

When Prophecy Fails: A Social and Psychological Study of a Modern Group That Predicted the Destruction of the World

Mistakes Were Made (But Not by Me): Why We Justify Foolish Beliefs, Bad Decisions, and Hurtful Acts

On Being Certain: Believing You Are Right Even When You're Not

Terror management theory


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

A few last very useful articles:

Inside the cult controversies: Recovery from abusive groups - Joe Szimhart

Razor's Edge Indeed: Cult behavior defined - Joe Szimhart

(Joe Szimhart is a good source on cult psychology.)

Traumatic Abuse in Cults: A Psychoanalytic Perspective - Daniel Shaw, C.S.W.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I did not read the entire thread, I just read a few of your posts. You are likely already familiar with some of the above sources.

I wish you all the best!

Disclaimer regarding Steve Hassan

The Ross Institute of New Jersey/May 2013

See [www.culteducation.com]

The inclusion of news articles within the Ross Institute of New Jersey (RI) archives, which mention and/or quote Steven Hassan, in no way suggests that RI recommends Mr. Hassan or recognizes him in any way.

News articles that mention Steve Hassan have been archived for historical purposes only due to the information they contain about controversial groups, movements and/or leaders.

RI does not recommend Steven Hassan.

RI has received serious complaints about Steve Hassan concerning his fees. Mr. Hassan does not publicly disclose his fee schedule, but according to complaints Steve Hassan has charged fees varying from $250.00 per hour or $2,500.00 per day to $500.00 per hour or $5,000.00 per day. This does not include Mr. Hassan's expenses, which according to complaints can be quite substantial.

Steven Hassan has charged families tens of thousands of dollars and provided questionable results. One recent complaint cited total fees of almost $50,000.00. But this very expensive intervention effort ended in failure.

Dr. Cathleen Mann, who holds a doctorate in psychology and has been a licensed counselor in the state of Colorado since 1994 points out, "Nowhere does Hassan provide a base rate and/or any type or accepted statistical method defining his results..."

Steve Hassan has at times suggested to potential clients that they purchase a preliminary report based upon what he calls his "BITE" model. These "BITE reports" can potentially cost thousands of dollars.

See [corp.sec.state.ma.us]

Steve Hassan runs a for-profit corporation called "Freedom of Mind." Mr. Hassan is listed as the corporate agent for that business as well as its president and treasurer.

RI does not recommend "Freedom of Mind" as a resource.

RI also does not list or recommend Steve Hassan's books.

To better understand why Mr. Hassan's books are not recommended by RI read this detailed review of his most recently self-published book titled "Freedom of Mind."

See [www.cultnews.com]

Steve Hassan's cult intervention methodology has historically raised concerns since its inception. The book "Recovery from Cults" (W.W. Norton & Co. pp. 174-175) edited by Dr. Michael Langone states the following:

"Calling his approach 'strategic intervention [sic] therapy,' Hassan (1988) stresses that, although he too tries to communicate a body of information to cultists and to help them think independently, he also does formal counseling. As with many humanistic counseling approaches, Hassan’s runs the risk of imposing clarity, however subtly, on the framework’s foundational ambiguity and thereby manipulating the client."

RI has also learned that Mr. Hassan has had dual-relationships with his counseling clients. That is, clients seeing Mr. Hassan for counseling may also do professional cult intervention work with him.

Professionals in the field of cultic studies have also expressed concerns regarding Steven Hassan's use of hypnosis and Neuro-linguistic programming (NLP).

Based upon complaints and the concerns expressed about Mr. Hassan RI does not recommend Steve Hassan for counseling, intervention work or any other form of professional consultation.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/10/2013 09:19PM by rrmoderator.