I don't know...it was around the 11th of September last, or a little before that.

I can't seem to find any record of Bickle teaching at a conference in the month of September 2006. There was a conference held near the end of that month that (if I remember correctly) was about prophetic something-or-other.

If I could make available to you via download one of his teachings, would you be interested in watching it? It's (originally) a multi-part DVD (I think totaling 2 hours or so) about his views on the end times. I chose this one in particular because it bears witness to some of the things I've said about him above, straight out of his own mouth. Plus I want to give you this opportunity to "test the spirits." The information presented in the video is copyrighted, but as he has expressed many times, he is not interested in keeping it from being distributed free of charge, nor is he worried about people taking his material and presenting it as their own.

I know I'm not helping the cult mentality by talking about Bickle so much. I do not view him as being a leader over me, just for the record. I also rarely even mention the guy in everyday life.

I'd also like to provide you with the opportunity to "test the spirits" more tanigibly by attending the "onething" conference in the last 5-or-so days in December in Kansas City, MO. I will be there, and you will get to hear some pretty sweet worship music, as well as a lot of teachings from ihop, or that ihop "endorses," and get a real feel of what they're about. The conference itself is free, so if you can afford the trip and living expenses for 5 days, it would be a lot of fun. Average attendance is around 10,000-15,000 people. And yes, Bickle will be there in person. :)

I'm also still waiting to hear about the alleged complaints received from rrmoderator from past participants, as well as the reasons IHOP's doctrine is "out of whack" from zeuszor.

A Heart for God:

I have received serious complaints from several families that feel their kids have been or are currently being exploited by IHOP (e.g. rental arrangements, fees, fund raising, labor).

The families that have complained along with some past members also feel that IHOP is authoritarian and that Bickle has no meaningful accountability.

There is no meaningful financial transparency at IHOP that discloses in detail all salaries, compensation paid out, through a detailed and independently audited budget.

You're right. The housing should be free, the kids should be given everything without cost, and they should never have to lift a finger.

Of course if they were living at home, having your children do chores is ok. in the context of a church, NO! There are far more parents that have sent their children to internship (or whatever) at IHOP that are satisfied than those that aren't. Had you bothered to weigh the numbers?

As for IHOP being authoritarian, that is 100% opinion, and again is purely a small minority of complaints compared to the whole.

If financial transparency is an issue, why have they not been fined or otherwise punished by the IRS?

It might also be of interest to you that there are *many* churches that have been modelled after IHOP. Check out www.ihopnetwork.com. These are churches that have themselves claimed to be modelled after IHOP. Many of them call themselves [whatever] house of prayer (Topeka House of Prayer, for example, or Zadok House of Prayer.) There is also IHOP Chicago. (See [www.ihopchicago.com])

In further response to your concern of authoritarianism at IHOP, the KC "missions base" has adopted a policy of non-governing of other ministries. Simply put, this means that the original IHOP refuses to be head over other houses of prayer based on them. If Bickle were out for power, as you suppose, he would have gladly taken the opposite stand. But, I feel like you've already made up your mind on this matter, in spite of evidence to the contrary.

I'll let you in on something. People lie. Or get confused or overly dramatic. If you believed everything you heard about an organization, I'd be part of a chicken & cat killing, idol worshipping cult. However, that's hardly the case.

Heart for God:

Please explain how Bickle is accountable?

Does IHOP have a democratically elected board voted upon by the general membership that can discipline or fire him?

Is any and all compensation, expenses etc. paid to Bickle disclosed in detail through an independently audited and annually published budget distrubuted to the general membership?

Since I am not yet involved in their leadership, I do not have the knowledge to accurately answer the first two questions. However, I am not familiar with too many churches that have such a system in place, except for Catholics and Baptists. Perhaps there are more, as I am not familiar with church leadership politics (which is ironic since I'm a worship leader at my church). I do know that Bickle's income comes at least in part from the books he writes or DVDs he puts together (and other such things).

As for financial transparency, where could I even get ahold of such information in the first place? Is it available to the public?

To backtrack a bit, I'm interested in the specifics of the alleged "labor" children at IHOP were doing. Lots of organizations geared for children have the children do a little work, like cleaning dishes. Camps would be a good example. So [i:565feb82ae]if[/i:565feb82ae] the work was of that nature, why is it unacceptable at IHOP? And if not... well, we'll get to that when/if we get to it.

A Heart for God:

You are attempting to gloss over very important points.

1. IHOP is essentially a dictatorship, without any meaningful accountability through democratically elected church government. Bickle more or less rules over the organization like a king.

2. No one really knows where all the money goes at IHOP, with the notable exception of Bickle and his appointed few.

Finally, the overwhelming majority of Protestant churches do have both democratically elected church government and meaningful financial transparency, not to mention denominational oversight.

Very well. I will get in contact with them and get some info. In the mean time, let me ask you: Do you consider all non- or multi-denominational churches to be cults? If so, you will indeed have to consider mine one. My pastor was originally in charge of a methodist church, and (whether you believe this type of thing or not) the spirit of God began moving on quite a number of people in the congregation. Those "higher up" did not approve of outward displays of worship (dancing, lifting hands), and basically told him to stop. Eventually, it lead him leaving to start a non-denominational church. By your standards, that leaves him with no accountability in the church itself. However, he is part of the local ministerial association, and was (and may still be, I'm not sure) elected as president of it. (And in case you're curious, we are indeed financially transparent. Our head of finances occasionally posts financial info for everyone to see.) So are we a cult or not? We have elements going both ways, according to your standards.

I do not know if there is such a thing as a Kansas City ministerial association, and consequently, I couldn't know if Bickle is a part of it. Bickle's story isn't so much different than ours, as I see it. Aside from some technical stuff. I'm not trying to draw attention away from IHOP with this post; I'm just trying to show similarities and get a better idea of how you judge these things.