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David J
Hi all

it's jose-david in case anyone's wondering.

So lately I've been thinking over the last exchanges I've had with Dave and the rest of the JCs.

All I can say is that no matter how much I try to rationalize it, i still feel just as angry as I did before with the concept of the group and especially at how Dave continues to manipulate it.

And with this I think I should say something

I'd like to apologize to Kevin and Sheila for my participation in the trial. It's easy to tell my friends that at one point i joined a cult and that I literally gave everything up for this group. But it's really hard to tell anyone that I whipped someone. To date, no more than three people know of it, and most of the time, I have a hard time thinking about it. I hate that video, I wish it would disappear. What was I thinking? I wish I could tell you, but even I understand that I can be quite distant and cold at times.

I say Kevin because of Cherry and Sheila because of Joe. But even then, my apology extends to Cherry and Joe as well as anyone who was affected by the trial. It was abuse and though others would say that it might have been a very small and insignificant type of abuse (as the JCs would probably say) it is nonetheless abuse. I'm sorry.

To sheila specifically: I'd like to again apologize for anything I've said against you even after I had left the JCs.

On the part of the violent attack on Reinhard, I can only say that it was all very unfortunate. I was not there, and I can't say much about it without feeling like I'm not seeing the whole picture. Yes it hurts to see someone that I had known and grown to appreciate beaten so violently. And if I was there I would have tried to do everything i could to stop the fighting. But (and I hesitate to say "but"), I also understand what one feels when they feel that a loved one is in danger (I'm not a mother but I do know my mother). It's all very human, we shouldn't think that anyone is exempt from it. I do hold a difference in opinion in how I would act in that particular situation, but I can't say anything beyond a difference of opinion. It's all very gray. It was all very emotional. Maybe later I can say something more worthwhile on that whole issue.

No Dave, the whole whipping mock trial was unnecessary. If you hold yourselves up to a standard of genuine forgiveness, then just saying that might have sufficed. The whipping only added fuel to the fire and I'm pretty sure you yourself knew that. You wanted attention, that's it. You wanted people on your side, or else why are you so defensive when people call you a cult?

Anyway, once again, I include Dave in a post without wanting to.

That's all for now.

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Apollo
Is there anything this man wouldn't use to further his victimised and persecuted agenda?

[www.jesus-teachings.com]

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Dave
Thanks for those comments, Joe. I'm wondering if Elyas is still reading this forum. I recall him being quite abrupt in saying that if a girl is old enough to have periods she is old enough to have sex. Elyas' style is quite abrupt and often offensive, and he was trying to justify abhorrent practices in the Children of God (Family of Love), but there was some truth in what he was saying. There is a natural maturation process, which is faster in some people than in others. If the hormones are flowing, it is going to lead that person to want to have sex. There are several approaches: total abstinence, masturbation, sex outside of marriage, or marriage. We JCs would mostly push for the second option (masturbation); but most of society today seems to think that it should be sex outside of marriage first, and marriage later if they can possibly hold off on it. Until there is some approach which looks at how our attitudes in one area link in with our attitudes in another area, there will be glaring contradictions. For example, if a fifteen year old girl is going to get married, is it really better that she marry another child? Or would it be better if she married an older person (e.g. someone 21 or over) who has their act together a little better and is able to properly care for her as she goes through the ups and downs of adolescence?

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hello
I saw Alan distributing on saturday. He said that he was no longer part of the group but that he still held to the ideals of the group. He was distributing dvd's with The Tyrant Within/ Beyond Justice on.

Make of that what you will. It was lovely to see Alan, he's a nice chap- but kind of heartbreaking. I don't believe the JC's have disbanded at all , I'm afraid.