Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by:
zeuszor
()
Date: January 07, 2011 12:36AM
They're like rodeo clowns. They distract, and they amuse, but their main reason for being there is to protect. Why they are more interested in protecting DM than in protecting potential future victims I'll never understand.
Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by:
zeuszor
()
Date: January 07, 2011 01:02AM
Quote
rrmoderator
Malcolm Wesley WREST:
Some groups do change after the leader dies.
For example, after the deaths of Joseph Smith and Brigham Young the Mormon Church devolved power and ceased to be a single personality-driven organization it once was under their leadership. Today Mormons have a church government and the organization has softened its positions in a number of areas to move more mainstream. I expect that process will continue.
After the death of Ellen White The Seventh Day Adventist Church continued to evolve and change. Today many Christians see it as simply another Protestant denomination, though different in some ways, is not destructive or personality-driven as it once was under White and before her under Miller.
Jehovah's Witnesses devolved power from one man rule to a governing body, but still retains much of its destructive nature in my opinion.
Scientology, after the death of L. Ron Hubbard, moved from on man ruling over the organization to another man ruling over it. Nothing much seems to have changed in this respect and the stories of abuse continue.
After the death of "Moses" David Berg his widow took over the so-called "Children of God." The group has never really repudiated Berg and denounced his teachings as false. In my opinion it has changed names, but remains essentially the same and can be seen as a "destructive cult."
In my opinion ISKCON is a similar case, the group has made some changes since the death of its founder and deaths of other key leaders, but can still be seen as an essentially authoritarian destructive "cult."
Most cults disappear or gradually disintegrate after the leader dies. Especially a small group without meaningful accumulated assets like the JCs.
In my experience, if a group has accumulated substantial assets and developed a meaningful cash flow, someone will come forward to take over.
Otherwise cult groups typically will dissipate.
McKay is alive and the group appears to be active and still under his influence and/or control.
"The church that has the best chance of survival in this damned world is that of atheism under the convenient guise of theism. The churches have always proved the staunchest upholders of the grossest form of worldliness from which even the worst of non-ecclesiastical criminals are found to recoil...the idea of an organised church in an intelligible form, indeed, marks the close of the living spiritual movement. The great ecclesiastical establishments are the dikes and the dams to retain the current that cannot be held by any such contrivances. They, indeed, indicate a desire on the part of the masses to exploit a spiritual movement for their own purpose."
--Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakura
Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by:
Stoic
()
Date: January 07, 2011 01:37AM
Most of the JC members seem to have been looking for a radical way to serve god outside of the organised churches--and Davejc has capitalised on that.
I doubt that many of them will fit back into the standard Sunday congregation when they leave the group but there are a lot of organisations that do good work in a religious framework--the JC's seem to work alongside those christian 'hands-on' outfits now in a voluntary capacity---- I was thinking more of those organisations and such as the Salvation Army, Quakers etc as being a good fit for their aspirations rather than becoming a part of the more standard Sunday congregation.
Malcolm seemed to be questioning whether the group as a whole can 'make a silk purse out of a sows ear' by reinventing itself---I think that will only work as an individual endeavour. I do think that they can all 'live well' whatever their religious affiliations or lack of them once they are out from under the thumb of Davejc.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/07/2011 01:39AM by Stoic.
I doubt that many of them will fit back into the standard Sunday congregation when they leave the group but there are a lot of organisations that do good work in a religious framework--the JC's seem to work alongside those christian 'hands-on' outfits now in a voluntary capacity---- I was thinking more of those organisations and such as the Salvation Army, Quakers etc as being a good fit for their aspirations rather than becoming a part of the more standard Sunday congregation.
Malcolm seemed to be questioning whether the group as a whole can 'make a silk purse out of a sows ear' by reinventing itself---I think that will only work as an individual endeavour. I do think that they can all 'live well' whatever their religious affiliations or lack of them once they are out from under the thumb of Davejc.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/07/2011 01:39AM by Stoic.
Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by:
zeuszor
()
Date: January 07, 2011 02:47AM
If I were you, Apollo, I'd not waste any more of your time with them over there anymore. Have you noticed how they've gone into circle-the-wagons mode ever since you showed up?
Actually, a couple of them have. One of the twins posted something the other day, and Grace did just yesterday. A couple of them post there from time to time, but not often.
[www.jesus-teachings.com]
[www.jesus-teachings.com]
If they are not out of the group per se, they (the two above posters) are still very much obviously under DM's influence.
For the record, I do not think that DM is a pedophile, and never said that I did. The false "DM-is-a-pedophile" issue is in my opinion another distractor, a red herring.
Now, I think that he is a predator and a psychopath, and has shown over time a pattern of grooming youth, young people, for recruitment into his cult. He had no business meeting secretly with anybody (like J. Johnson) who was under the age of 18.
But that does not make him a pedophile. It makes him similar to one. But "like" is not "is." An orange is like a tangerine, but they are two different things, right?
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/07/2011 02:53AM by zeuszor.
Quote
Apollo
The fact none of his victims/followers have posted on the forum for a couple of months leaves me feeling suspicious. If there was some kind of disagreement and the cult did ''disband'' I do not believe every single one of them would completely turn their back on him. You would think that at least one or two would pop onto the forum to offer some kind of support. It leads me to believe that they are under strict orders to refrain from posting. This is all part of McKay's ''grand plan''.
Actually, a couple of them have. One of the twins posted something the other day, and Grace did just yesterday. A couple of them post there from time to time, but not often.
[www.jesus-teachings.com]
[www.jesus-teachings.com]
If they are not out of the group per se, they (the two above posters) are still very much obviously under DM's influence.
For the record, I do not think that DM is a pedophile, and never said that I did. The false "DM-is-a-pedophile" issue is in my opinion another distractor, a red herring.
Now, I think that he is a predator and a psychopath, and has shown over time a pattern of grooming youth, young people, for recruitment into his cult. He had no business meeting secretly with anybody (like J. Johnson) who was under the age of 18.
But that does not make him a pedophile. It makes him similar to one. But "like" is not "is." An orange is like a tangerine, but they are two different things, right?
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/07/2011 02:53AM by zeuszor.
Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by:
Apollo
()
Date: January 07, 2011 03:10AM
I wasn't including Grace and Jayme/Jeremy. They left the cult long before the ''disbanding''. None of the current members have posted since the ''disbanding''.
Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by:
zeuszor
()
Date: January 07, 2011 03:13AM
Again, you are taking it for granted that information coming from DM and his people is accurate. I am not. Me, I (more or less) always assume that DM is lying about whatever he communicates. We are talking about a man who is devious in the extreme. How do we know they're really out of the group?
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/07/2011 03:16AM by zeuszor.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/07/2011 03:16AM by zeuszor.
Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by:
Apollo
()
Date: January 07, 2011 03:23AM
Quote
zeuszor
Again, you are taking it for granted that information coming from DM and his people is accurate. I am not. Me, I (more or less) always assume that DM is lying about whatever he communicates. We are talking about a man who is devious in the extreme. How do we know they're really out of the group?
Yes well that's a good point. Nobody knows for certain that they're out of the group. The people who we know were definitely members have not posted since the ''disbanding''. I just cannot see people like Joe and Alf (who presented themsleves as being completely under McKay's control) now turning their back on him just like that. If they're not posting then it's because McKay has told them not to. It's all part of his devious plan.
Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by:
zeuszor
()
Date: January 07, 2011 03:25AM
Quote
ApolloQuote
zeuszor
Again, you are taking it for granted that information coming from DM and his people is accurate. I am not. Me, I (more or less) always assume that DM is lying about whatever he communicates. We are talking about a man who is devious in the extreme. How do we know they're really out of the group?
Yes well that's a good point. Nobody knows for certain that they're out of the group. The people who we know were definitely members have not posted since the ''disbanding''. I just cannot see people like Joe and Alf (who presented themsleves as being completely under McKay's control) now turning their back on him just like that. If they're not posting then it's because McKay has told them not to. It's all part of his devious plan.
It's all about control, and nothing about dialog in DM's mind. Never forget that.
Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by:
Stoic
()
Date: January 07, 2011 07:32AM
Davejc is openly posting as himself now on the xJC site, after signing up as 'Joe'
I have to remark that I think a lot of the posts and the troll action we have had here has probably been either Davejc or dsm under various screen names, attempting to spread disinformation. Bigpigweed is more likely to be dsm than anyone else.
The Dave and Denise show is still going even if there is speculation about the rest of the members.
'It's all about control, and nothing about dialog in DM's mind. Never forget that.'
Davejc seems to have abandoned posting on his own site in the past few days, I guess he's finally realised that there is no-one to control on that platform, now that he has locked any real responses from showing up. No fun there then.
On the xJC's he has gone for the pity-plea, after falling_leaves seeded a few articles on bullying.
After the attacks and attempts to twist every written word to an exoneration of himself and his doings, he is asking to not be bullied!
His purpose has not changed and he can probably make an attempt at a 'sort of' dialogue (and the 'sort of' that the xJC's are familiar with and have been swayed by in the past) if he can worm his way into the goodwill and play on the christian sentiments expressed on the xJC site.
Remember that very long spoon,
[www.englishclub.com]
I am always tempted to use it to poke out the eye of my fellow diner--but then that is not considered too sporting in polite dining circles.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/07/2011 07:37AM by Stoic.
I have to remark that I think a lot of the posts and the troll action we have had here has probably been either Davejc or dsm under various screen names, attempting to spread disinformation. Bigpigweed is more likely to be dsm than anyone else.
The Dave and Denise show is still going even if there is speculation about the rest of the members.
'It's all about control, and nothing about dialog in DM's mind. Never forget that.'
Davejc seems to have abandoned posting on his own site in the past few days, I guess he's finally realised that there is no-one to control on that platform, now that he has locked any real responses from showing up. No fun there then.
On the xJC's he has gone for the pity-plea, after falling_leaves seeded a few articles on bullying.
After the attacks and attempts to twist every written word to an exoneration of himself and his doings, he is asking to not be bullied!
His purpose has not changed and he can probably make an attempt at a 'sort of' dialogue (and the 'sort of' that the xJC's are familiar with and have been swayed by in the past) if he can worm his way into the goodwill and play on the christian sentiments expressed on the xJC site.
Remember that very long spoon,
[www.englishclub.com]
I am always tempted to use it to poke out the eye of my fellow diner--but then that is not considered too sporting in polite dining circles.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/07/2011 07:37AM by Stoic.
Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by:
zeuszor
()
Date: January 07, 2011 07:36AM
He'll have them eating out of the palm of his hand in not much time at all, I'll wager.
Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.