Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by:
Blackhat
()
Date: January 05, 2011 02:15PM
Quote
rrmoderator
"When cult groups actually do collapse former followers typically have lost respect for the leader. Subsequently, they disregard and pay little attention to what the former leader tells them or commands. "
Quote
Stoic
I personally think that he is using this hiatus time to clean up the records that might reflect badly on his new improved venture and that would include him trying to shut down or subvert his critics. We can see his efforts on that score in his gaslighting of his son on th xJC's. (Remember he first tried to enlist their help as allies in his litigation efforts against RR--when that went nowhere he changed tactics) For the moment, he has left this site alone after his failed attempt at litigation to silence or at least muzzle the bad PR.
I see what you mean. I have previously pointed out and recorded here just how many posts were deleted from the JC Forum once the lock-down was in place. It was huge. It was something I recorded here because I know it will not be "whitewashed" like Dave has done to his forum.
I gather from recent postings by recentlydeparted (on the X site) that that the re-grouping was brought about because too many members had to update their passports (how many of us can globe-trot like that? And in the name of turning your back on money?), and they had made a decision not to "take the mark" ie have an implant in their passports.
So they decided to become independent cells, each focusing on the county they were in, and not to travel to meet others in the "community"
If this is the case, then there is a real danger that Dave will try to recruit a new sub-set of followers here in Australia, followers who have no need of a passport, but who have fresh kidneys ripe for the offering/taking......
Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by:
Blackhat
()
Date: January 05, 2011 02:24PM
Dave has confirmed that RR and Brian are correct, if you can believe him. So do you believe him, or is he messing with you with lies? I don't know, but he says:
I guess only time and substantiated evidence will tell....
Quote
Dave McKay
And "disbanding" or "imploding", whatever you want to call it, is never complete until they have totally rejected the teachings.
Then there's the great debate over whether or not we have disbanded. Much as I hate to do it, I have to side with Rick and Brian on this. They insist that we have not disbanded, that we will somewhere someday "rise from the ashes". Amen, and Amen! It' what I've been trying to say to the X site people, who want to spit on me as a senile old man. Of course, they, too, are getting more back to the real problem being forsaking all and doing loving things like donating a kidney to someone dying of end-stage renal failure being what is so evil about the group.
Honesty is something they just cannot credit me with, yet I've been honest from the start:
I said from the start that the JCs have just graduated to a new level which does not require us to be organisationally linked... or even to agree on everything, which is probably more tolerant of diversity than ever before, but which I see as a higher level of unity. As such, this "Phoenix" as Brian et al call it, cannot be killed. I'm happy to take their abuse (though I would not hesitate to take legal action if I could) if it frees everyone else up to greater service for God. That has been my claim from the start.
I guess only time and substantiated evidence will tell....
Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by:
Apollo
()
Date: January 05, 2011 03:55PM
Quote
Malcolm Wesley WREST
Quote:
Hey Apollo :)
Just to clarify - Alf is NOT the member who confessed to molesting the two girls. He is the person that " x " confessed to. If you scroll back and find the original post by over concerned mother you can see her testimony. For all intents and purposes Alf - like many of the now x-jcs is a highly idealistic and honourable person.
We are getting used to that kind of balls-up by Apollo, and we don't want to tolerate it for too long.....apologies if he has not sent his....
Dear Blackhat,
My apologies to Apollo, that was my "balls up" I fear...late night postings again...I'm sorry for the error of fact.
My apologies Malcolm. It was a misunderstanding.
Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by:
Apollo
()
Date: January 05, 2011 04:45PM
Well it's been quite an eventful first couple of days posting on the other forum. Some have been welcoming and some not so much. Glen aka bigpigweed has harassed me over my identity. He's adamant that i'm Brian posting under a different guise, a tactic used by Dave McKay himself in an attempt to discredit his critics. He also claims there is already a campaign afoot to have me banned. l'm trying my best to rise above the obvious tensions but i must admit it has been testing. I can definitely feel the tension between the two forums. It really would be so much more productive if we could work together.
Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by:
Stoic
()
Date: January 05, 2011 05:32PM
I think that while there is still some attachment to Davejc and his works, there will be little productive information to be gained from directly questioning the xJC's.
Yasmin has a point when she likens such direct questioning to an invitation to the one questioned to implicate themselves in inappropriate behaviour in a public forum. No-one with any sense of self-preservation is going to do that willingly, nor should they. Only a person very secure in themselves is going to be that open in response to such intrusive questions--not many of us are that secure.
Here is a brief overview of why such direct questioning leads to a strengthening of defensive behaviour:
[www.helium.com]
Police interviews now, unless they are establishing mundane facts, use an oblique and sensitive approach because everyone has and employs ego defence mechanisms. A direct attack on such a defence mechanism generally causes either a counter-attack or for the questioned one to clam up.
I don't think there will be any working together between the two forums, but that doesn't mean that there has to be antagonism. It could be seen as two different approaches to the same problem--which is Davejc and his behaviour and how that impinges on his members.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/05/2011 05:35PM by Stoic.
Yasmin has a point when she likens such direct questioning to an invitation to the one questioned to implicate themselves in inappropriate behaviour in a public forum. No-one with any sense of self-preservation is going to do that willingly, nor should they. Only a person very secure in themselves is going to be that open in response to such intrusive questions--not many of us are that secure.
Here is a brief overview of why such direct questioning leads to a strengthening of defensive behaviour:
[www.helium.com]
Police interviews now, unless they are establishing mundane facts, use an oblique and sensitive approach because everyone has and employs ego defence mechanisms. A direct attack on such a defence mechanism generally causes either a counter-attack or for the questioned one to clam up.
I don't think there will be any working together between the two forums, but that doesn't mean that there has to be antagonism. It could be seen as two different approaches to the same problem--which is Davejc and his behaviour and how that impinges on his members.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/05/2011 05:35PM by Stoic.
Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by:
Apollo
()
Date: January 05, 2011 06:18PM
Quote
Stoic
Yasmin has a point when she likens such direct questioning to an invitation to the one questioned to implicate themselves in inappropriate behaviour in a public forum.
I can see where you're coming from Stoic. The question i put to the ex members regarding defrauding the benefits system was in response to a comment Apostate had made on another thread. As he was so open about it I took it for granted that everyone would be happy to discuss it. I can understand why they would prefer to avoid such questioning however. I still feel my question regarding the incident at Deakin was a fairly reasonable one.
Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by:
Blackhat
()
Date: January 05, 2011 06:41PM
Quote
Stoic
she likens such direct questioning to an invitation to the one questioned to implicate themselves in inappropriate behaviour in a public forum. No-one with any sense of self-preservation is going to do that willingly, nor should they. Only a person very secure in themselves is going to be that open in response to such intrusive questions--not many of us are that secure.
Thanks Stoic, I couldn't have put it better....
Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by:
Stoic
()
Date: January 05, 2011 06:58PM
I'm not taking you to task, Apollo, I think it a reasonable question too. I'm also aware that it might not seem so reasonable to those with closer ties to Davejc than you and I.
In a sense, any attack on Davejc and his works will cast a shadow on those who, at one time, bought into his worldview. If they are still not wholly free of the influence they are going to feel somewhat under threat and defensive, understandably so.
Its a family thing--in a family we can criticise each other but woe betide any outsider who tries the same thing--its the quickest way to ensure solidarity and a closing of the ranks against the outsider.
A marketer came up with the essence of persuasion in one sentence, and it applies to just about everybody:
"People will do anything for those who encourage their dreams, justify their failures, allay their fears, confirm their suspicions and help them throw rocks at their enemies."
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/05/2011 06:59PM by Stoic.
In a sense, any attack on Davejc and his works will cast a shadow on those who, at one time, bought into his worldview. If they are still not wholly free of the influence they are going to feel somewhat under threat and defensive, understandably so.
Its a family thing--in a family we can criticise each other but woe betide any outsider who tries the same thing--its the quickest way to ensure solidarity and a closing of the ranks against the outsider.
A marketer came up with the essence of persuasion in one sentence, and it applies to just about everybody:
"People will do anything for those who encourage their dreams, justify their failures, allay their fears, confirm their suspicions and help them throw rocks at their enemies."
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/05/2011 06:59PM by Stoic.
Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by:
Apollo
()
Date: January 05, 2011 08:26PM
No problem Stoic.
When one has been controlled and manipulated for so long it can often take years, even decades to fully recover.
Someone called ''Joe'' has just registered on the xjcs site. This will be interesting.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/05/2011 08:27PM by Apollo.
When one has been controlled and manipulated for so long it can often take years, even decades to fully recover.
Someone called ''Joe'' has just registered on the xjcs site. This will be interesting.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/05/2011 08:27PM by Apollo.
Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by:
rrmoderator
()
Date: January 05, 2011 10:10PM
Blackhat:
Your post quoting McKay doesn't demonstrate much, other than his attempt to spin anything and everything.
Again, when supposed former members (e.g. Joe Johnson) surface through independent communication and visit with their families, this will actually demonstrate something.
McKay's rhetoric means nothing.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/06/2011 03:13AM by rrmoderator.
Your post quoting McKay doesn't demonstrate much, other than his attempt to spin anything and everything.
Again, when supposed former members (e.g. Joe Johnson) surface through independent communication and visit with their families, this will actually demonstrate something.
McKay's rhetoric means nothing.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/06/2011 03:13AM by rrmoderator.
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