JC members live under constant fear and are scared to death. Fear is what holds them in the "community." DM instills intense fear in his members. JC day to day life must be difficult and exceedingly stressful because the members live in constant fear. Fear is the glue that holds them together.

As soon as I walked in that room all those years ago and met the assembled JCs, I could tell that I was in the presence of a group of people who were all in a lot of fear and who were being tightly controlled. I started feeling fearful myself, and left quickly. They just spooked me.

The JCs are little more than the McKay Family Business, and DM himself is really just a piece of trash, frankly.

The way I see it, the Jesus Christians really do not know what they believe, other than that 1) They are personally and spiritually superior to the rest of The Church, as well as to society in general and 2) (related to 1) that everybody is a hypocrite except for them. Jesus Christian belief and world view seem to pretty much boil down to those two points.

The Jesus Christians' members like to freely spread the thought amongst themselves that no one on the earth holds a valid view point on any subject except for members of their group.

Most people would (and do) respond to that arrogant idea by simply saying, “they’re crazy.”

I am of the opinion that Mr. and Mrs. McKay are very disappointed that they didn't become major "players" who got to lead a "movement" of their own.

From Armageddon for Beginners:

Solomon was a good man; but he can't hold a candle to Christ. Nor can anyone who was ever born. As Christ said in prophecies about the last days, people will find many replacements for the true Messiah. (Matthew 24:24) But when they do, their replacement (whoever it may be) becomes an antichrist. (I John 2:18; II John 6-7) The so-called Christian church would rather follow St. Paul, or the Pope, or Billy Graham, or, for that matter, Solomon, than to follow Christ.

See also The Fall of America, Just Do It! and Bin Raiders more for writings about Billy Graham.

The Jesus Christians, in like manner, are following David McKay rather than following Christ.

But it's hard to see the picture when you're in the frame, right?

David McKay is implying something in the above texts about how God chose Billy Graham to be an apostle and raise up communities, but Graham chose to defile his conscience in the pursuit of world renown as an evangelist. McKay is basically saying that Billy Graham loves power and fame more than his calling.

In talking in such a disparaging manner about Billy Graham, David McKay gives a really good definition of himself, as it is obvious to me that he loves power and acclaim.

However, the Jesus Christians' "know it all attitude" thankfully only puts people off, and attracts only a mere unfortunate few.

The Jesus Christians should use their own criteria to judge themselves. If they did they would disband and everyone would leave today.

[www.youtube.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/07/2011 11:00PM by zeuszor.

Quote
zeuszor
The JCs are little more than the McKay Family Business, and DM himself is really just a piece of trash, frankly.

You've managed to sum up this sad and sorry mess in the space of one sentence. Take a bow Sir!

It's always been about the money. How they've managed to dodge the taxman for so long I will never know.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/07/2011 11:55PM by Apollo.

Nah, I'll take no bow (as this is not some kind of performance on my part) but thank you for the recognition and respect anyway.

"A live-by-faith, work-for-God-not-money Christian community. We distribute Bible-based comics and other tracts, and do free (voluntary) work. Against hypocrisy and self-righteousness in the church. In favour of honesty, humility and love."

This has got to be actually one of the the most hypocritical and self-righteous statements of all time, right behind TRADOC's "Army Values" bullshit.

Everything DM does, he does for the money. He loves money and is actually quite a tightwad. He is one of the the least Christlike persons whom I can think of. He is inveterately dishonest, totally lacking in humility, cold-hearted and with no natural affections.

Quote
Apollo
It's always been about the money. How they've managed to dodge the taxman for so long I will never know.

Obviously. Everybody has to forsake all except for DM and his consort.

That'd actually be a good question for some of DM's friends to field. I recommend taking that one up with them at the XJC forum. Maybe they can tell you about how DM has managed to evade the authorities for so long.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/08/2011 12:13AM by zeuszor.

When did they start raiding bins?

McKay couldn't give a damn about the planet. He ordered his victims/followers to raid bins as he knew his profits would rise. The less money his victims/followers spend on food the more money that goes right into McKay's back pocket!

Quote
Apollo
When did they start raiding bins?

McKay couldn't give a damn about the planet. He ordered his victims/followers to raid bins as he knew his profits would rise. The less money his victims/followers spend on food the more money that goes right into McKay's back pocket!

Bingo. MO was very, very frugal too; this represents more emulation of Berg on DM's part.

They started promoting "freeganism," oh, a couple of years back. But they've been doing "dumpster diving" or "garbage eating" for a long time.

I know a guy that was present when DM met personally with Jim Roberts about twenty years ago.

DM, at the time, was posing as a more junior member of the very cult that he himself was in reality in charge of. Jim Roberts and/or his people probably taught DM and his people a thing or two about how to find food in an urban environment, with no money.

After all, the JCs are just a watered-down Australian version of the Roberts cult!

[forum.culteducation.com]



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/08/2011 12:28AM by zeuszor.

Jim Roberts, Feroze Golwalla, Ole Anthony, Miller Newton, David McKay.

All of these men are narcissistic, predatory individuals who lead small, obscure cult groups, and who have a predilection for recruiting young kids, the children of persons other than themselves.

Golwalla is presently under house arrest and Ole Anthony is old and decrepit, and neither of these men is presently actively recruiting anybody.

Miller Newton lives in Madiera Beach, Florida and is now called Father Cassian; he is a priest in the Antiochan Orthodox Church. Newton has a small band of followers out there at his "church."

Jim Roberts, as always, is in hiding somewhere, and his cult has dwindled down to approximately 40 members. At their peak, the Roberts group had around 140 or so members to their number.

David McKay is also in hiding, and the JCs by present estimates are fewer than 30 in number. Ostensibly, the JCs are no more now.

All of the above are basically the same type of psychopathic personalities, but what sets McKay apart and makes him especially loathsome (to me) is this sadistic mean streak and smarminess that he has about him. That, and his preference to try and recruit kids.

In my mind, there are basically, generally two kinds of cult leaders: those who believe in their own "shtick" and really think that they are doing the right thing, and those who know that they are full of it, but do not want anybody else to figure it out.

McKay is in the latter category, if you ask me. I do not believe that he actually gives a damn about what the Bible says on any given matter, only in the supremacy o his own opinions ans whims.

He is a cynical, sadistic, psychopathic bad man, a monster, and I do not have to empathize with him or any of the rest of the aforementioned demoniac personalities.

If anybody reading this can tell me of one good quality that DM does possesses, that he does not use to try and hurt others, then please tell me. Because I can think of none.

'If anybody reading this can tell me of one good quality that DM does possesses, that he does not use to try and hurt others, then please tell me. Because I can think of none.'

I can't think of any either.

One of the problems with this type of personality is that even in prison, with mandatory therapy, they will use what they learn to hoodwink an unwary therapist into believing that the person has had a genuine change of heart. They haven't, it is just more devious shape-shifting to get the outcome the person wants.

Davejc is being the sweetly reasonable, 'trying to reform' character now on the xJC's--beware, chaps, its a trap.

A clue to this ability to shape-shift endlessly is in the studies that Davejc put in with other cult leaders e.g. Jim Roberts, as Zeuszor points out, where he misrepresented himself to Roberts in order to pick up some tips on how to run a successful operation, shades his brief sojourn with 'Moses' David Berg of the infamous Children of God--he suppressed his own narcissistic authoritarianism just long enough to collect the intel he needed to start his own operation.

He has probably kept up with the latest developments in cultic progressions with other groups too.
A very, very calculating personality, with no discernable redeeming features, IMO.

He certainly mined and copied Denise for any tactics that might help him--he will do the same with anyone he comes across.
A highly dangerous manipulator.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/08/2011 05:04AM by Stoic.

Basically, Jim Roberts somehow found out that DM was in fact not a mere junior member of the group that that represented himself to be from, but was instead its leader.

Upon realizing that DM was in fact there to (in effect) infiltrate his group, Roberts then asked DM and the Christians (as they at the time called themselves) to leave the Vine Street house where they were all housed at the time.

Attilla and a woman (both from the Christians, here in America at the time) met two Roberts group members, one named Jonathon SCHMIDT (who is still with the Roberts cult to this day) and the other who is my friend (and who is of course out) in Berkeley, CA in approximately 1990. Eventually, DM met with Roberts himself in Oregon, in a house on a Vine Street. The rest is described above. This is the information I have regarding the McKay-Roberts connection.

He's a very, very dangerous man and if they think that their kindnesses will make him better, then they've got another thing coming. This is in my opinion the bottom line. And anybody who thinks that they can change him through the application of "logic and reason" is either hopelessly naive or in deep denial.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/08/2011 05:17AM by zeuszor.

Here is the new model, sweetly reasonable Davejc:



'I'm just sitting here waiting for the clamour to die down, and trying not to be too defensive.

Something else I am working on is trying to relate to people as individuals. I think I have often reacted (and still do react) to the "group" here rather than to individuals. It's a hard habit to break.

So for starters, thank you, Craig, for not being reactionary to what I said about graduation.

Perhaps I could say a little more about that. Surely you recall me using that term "graduation" when you were part of the community. It was an attempt to counteract the assumption in so many religious groups that everyone who leaves necessarily "backslides"... the "us" and "them" black and white mentality.

"Graduating" gives the picture of actually going out from a group/institution to PRACTICE what you have learned there. It is a concept somewhere between the "backsliding" approach (as seen by those left in the group/institution) and the "deprogrammed" approach (as seen by those who leave the group/institution).

I hope that is helpful.'


Allow me to translate freely, my own interpretation of this:

"I'm telling you now that you have 'graduated' from my teaching, as that sounds better than the reality which is that you are of no more immediate use to me and I have dumped your sorry asses.
I have had your kidneys already and we all know that they come in a limited number per person. I need new blood. However, I am going to leave my hooks in you as I never know when you might prove useful to me in the future. I will not hesitate to reel you back in for a while, if it suits my purpose at the time.

I hope that is helpful, but I really don't care either way to be honest.
This is not about you, personally, your only purpose is to serve my, Davejc's, purpose."

The man I know, the ex-Roberts group member, when telling me about "the Christians" even told me that their (the Christians') slogan at the time was, "Greed Breeds Mean Deeds." When he said this, I knew that his recollection was accurate. He recognized the old picture of DM that I showed him, and even knew their slogan, you know?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/08/2011 05:26AM by zeuszor.