Quote

Hey Apollo :)

Just to clarify - Alf is NOT the member who confessed to molesting the two girls. He is the person that " x " confessed to. If you scroll back and find the original post by over concerned mother you can see her testimony. For all intents and purposes Alf - like many of the now x-jcs is a highly idealistic and honourable person.

We are getting used to that kind of balls-up by Apollo, and we don't want to tolerate it for too long.....apologies if he has not sent his....

Quote
Blackhat
Tony says about you, Apollo:

Quote

Moreover, your tone of conversation is not welcome to me personally. Having escaped one cult leader, I do not wish to entertain another.

So I'm not the only one....

What Tony thinks of me is of no concern. He doesn't even post here.

Please stop these personal attacks on me.

Please focus on Dave McKay.

He is the problem here and not me.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/04/2011 07:08PM by Apollo.

In a cult, abusive organization, or abusive relationship it does not matter if the information presented is true. If it is negative about the group or any member of the group, then you cannot say it. Usually such negative information will be will be labeled as slander, and if one persists in speaking it or writing it one can be disciplined severely, ultimately with expulsion from the group, or, if one is an outsider speaking ill about or being at all critical of the group, one can be demonized, dehumanized, poked fun at, humiliated, or what have you.

See what I mean about "free discussion?" Go and try and ask some questions of an ex-member, and get called a name (cult leader) for your trouble. Way to go, Tony.

So, has anybody come up with that proof of the JCs' disbanding yet?

Blackhat:

It is not a "personal attack" to ask you why you are here, it is a question.

Frankly, I also wonder why you are here?

It seems you are either here trying to subvert the thread at various points and/or you hope to quite often serve as an apologist for McKay.

Cult leaders often use the ploy, "I told him to leave, but he refused."

However, if the JCs have collapsed McKay should not be commanding or telling anyone from his group anything.

When cult groups actually do collapse former followers typically have lost respect for the leader. Subsequently, they disregard and pay little attention to what the former leader tells them or commands.

And how you "see it" is an opinion, not a fact, which can be independently and objectively confirmed by the facts.

Wishful thinking won't change the JCs or Dave McKay.

Malcolm said:

'Would anyone like to nominate a time, that would positively "disprove" the theory that McKay will "rise from the ashes", Phoenix like with his cult all the stronger, surrounding him.....2024, 2014, next year.....19th July 2011? If a time cannot be nominated, then you are simply "mythologizing" the man....a mere "Don Quixote" of the cults...'

I think it important to recognise that although Davejc has apparently shrugged off his members for the time being, the indoctrination that he has so carefully worked on their minds is still in place.
Davejc is aware that that the hooks are still in place and that he can reel in his erstwhile members again (or at least those that he considers to still have some potential as fully loyal drones) at whatever time it suits him to start up the overt operation again.

I personally think that he is using this hiatus time to clean up the records that might reflect badly on his new improved venture and that would include him trying to shut down or subvert his critics. We can see his efforts on that score in his gaslighting of his son on th xJC's. (Remember he first tried to enlist their help as allies in his litigation efforts against RR--when that went nowhere he changed tactics) For the moment, he has left this site alone after his failed attempt at litigation to silence or at least muzzle the bad PR.
Essentially, before he closed up shop on the members, he was fighting on two fronts, trying to run the cult/business and fending off the criticism. He's getting old and finding doing both a struggle so he's concentrating on improving the PR (in his own cack-handed way) before resuming full cult operations.

If we look at what the CoG/Family (Davejc's glowing example that he follows a lot more closely than he follows any scriptural authority) has done in the past few years---the supposed clean-up and downsizing, attendance at public conferences, new 'open' attitude----we can see that they are making an effort to legitimise themselves in the eyes of the world, to drop the 'cult' label and become a bona-fide new religion in the same way that new-age religious type organisations have become semi-legitimate.

There is a new and quite successful hybrid being tried by the Osho org and quite a lot of the new eastern type cult orgs--which straddles the gap between religious belief and a corporate business model. The old recruitment and retention techniques will still be in use but the pretence that it is not primarily business-fuelled (at least amongst the upper management) is largely dropped.

There is a growth-cycle/life-cycle to organisations just as there is to living organisms.

Davejc will not retire, he lives to manipulate---if he is not manipulating someone he does not 'exist'



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/04/2011 10:27PM by Stoic.

Dear Stoic,

I again agree with your measured assessment...I think it important to recognise that although Davejc has apparently shrugged off his members for the time being, the indoctrination that he has so carefully worked on their minds is still in place. ABSOLUTELY!

It will take them some time to recover....and they are really the reason to persevere here.... however I think McKay will struggle to EVER "reel them back in" now as you put it.... the JC's run on the "repression" of your feelings and conscience.... NO-ONE wants McKay, however you are led to believe that you are "betraying God" if you choose not to subject yourself to him.....that illusion begins to quickly pass, once you are allowed some freedom..he is one of the most UNSUCCESSFUL cult leaders of all time....and the "numbers" have just never been there for him to "play around with".....It took him the better part of a decade to recover the personnel he lost during the "split" in 96.

David would have had a few weeks during which he would have been able to "reel them back in".....I'm willing to bet that not one of them will return to the dictatorship of yesteryear now...I'll further wager that he is now incapable of returning to "full cult operations".... in many ways I'd prefer to ignore the old twit, to amuse himself on the xjcs site....it is the "dozen" exmembers that remain on the "loose" who deserve attention.

Davejc will not retire, he lives to manipulate---if he is not manipulating someone he does not 'exist' Yes!

Quote:
Hey Apollo :)
Just to clarify - Alf is NOT the member who confessed to molesting the two girls. He is the person that " x " confessed to. If you scroll back and find the original post by over concerned mother you can see her testimony. For all intents and purposes Alf - like many of the now x-jcs is a highly idealistic and honourable person.


We are getting used to that kind of balls-up by Apollo, and we don't want to tolerate it for too long.....apologies if he has not sent his....


Dear Blackhat,

My apologies to Apollo, that was my "balls up" I fear...late night postings again...I'm sorry for the error of fact.

Malcolm Wesley WREST:

Only time will tell.

When there is word from the families of "former members" that loved ones are in touch and/or have come home for independent visits, you will then really know have some meaningful confirmation of the group's genuine status.

Until then everything is just conjecture.

So, has anybody come up with that proof of the JCs' disbanding yet?

- Zeuszor

No...no "proof" yet Zeuszor....thus I remain attentive, and open to the possibility that I am mistaken and clearly this thread should continue until such time as we have such evidence! (Although "proving" that something doesn't exist is an exercise in itself....)

When there is word from the families of "former members" that loved ones are in touch and/or have come home for independent visits, you will then really know have some meaningful confirmation of the group's genuine status.

Moderator

I again absolutely agree....I speak, extrapolating from my own experience, that after I left the JC's, it was a few years before I returned "home" (both physically and psychologically)...in my case there would have been a substantial delay in recording me as "out"....with the exception of Trevor, every one of the current members (that we are aware of) have been members of the JC's far longer than I...they will have a difficult and extended passage "out", I imagine....being able to "re-engage" with those, you were taught threatened the sincerity of your very "relationship with God" is definitely a "litmus test".