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zeuszor

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hello
What McKay promotes is called " spiritual addiction".

Please elaborate.

Hi Zeusor!
As Dr. Margaret Paul writes
" Spiritual addiction occurs when people use their spiritual practice as a way to avoid dealing with and taking responsibility for their feelings. ANYTHING that is used to avoid feelings and taking responsibility for feelings becomes an addiction- whether it is alchohol, drugs, food, TV, anger, withdrawal.....meditation ( prayer). "
This is why the JC's will never meet you in person- you would want to communicate with them in a way that involved ' feelings'. If a JC were to admit their feelings- and recognise yours- they would be forced to take personal and collective responsibility for their actions. Therefore it's much easier for them to remove the stimuli. You- for example- are a threat to their denied selves. This is why- as a group- and individually they lack empathy- and the feelings of others are projected by the JC's as both excessive and incredibly frightening.

Hope that makes things clearer. :)

Brilliant. Thanks for that.

The old fossil banned me again. So much for free speech.

Dear David,

What would Jesus do?

Let's look to what he said. I don't have the time to look up chapter and verse, so you're going to get my rough memories of the spirit of what is recorded in the Gospels.

1. A man asked if we should pay taxes. Jesus said to give to Caeser that which is Caeser's, and to God that which is God's.

David, by separating yourself from society, and by living on tax-free benefits and scavenging, you are not following Jesus' command to pay your taxes. Clearly Jesus here says that as citizens, we have an obligation to the broader society which gives us those wonderful supports we need, such as kidney transplants. You live in a parasitical relationship with society, which is against what Jesus said. And you encourage your young followers to do likewise, and so you lead children astray....

2. It would be better for him to have a millstone hung around his head, and to be drowned, rather than for him to hurt one of these my children.

David, you are very aware that young people are still spiritually child-like when they are beyond their legal adult status. Sometimes you have had disregard even for legal adulthood. You prey upon these children and teach them to do things contrary to Jesus' teachings. He was quite clear about his thoughts on that.

3. Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father in heaven.

David, you've been at this for a very long time, and I do not see anyone glorifying God because they see your good works. On the contrary, you have an overwhelming Public Relations problem. Jesus never had that, because he performed good works and spoke God's truth, and thousands flocked to him. Does your light shine before men? Do they see your good works and glorify God because of them? I think not. Surely by now if your good works and your teachings of the "New Truths" were to arouse people's marvel and admiration, it would have happened by now? Where are those who are impressed? Where are the thousands glorifying God because of your good works? Maybe they can't see any? Hmmm...This must surely tell you that you are on the wrong track regarding following Jesus.

4.By their fruits shall ye know them.

Jesus' fruits took his truths, kept them alive, magnified them, and history shows that he had a great impact. Many others who have dedicated their lives to GIVING OF THEMSELVES have also left great legacies. The difference between these people and you, David, is that you preach a totally self-serving agenda. Self-serving to you and self-serving to your followers.
You spend your time scavenging, free-loading off the efforts of others, living a parasitical existance which you surely must realise by now is going nowhere. You are most surely not bearing good fruits! The fruits are here on the forum, the wounded, disenchanted, angry victims of your narcissistic personality. Those young people still with you (and yourself) should be studiously applying your talents to becomng the best you can be, which leads me to the next thing Jesus talked about.

5. He told a Parable about the Talents, and how if you bury them, rather than develop and use them to return (taxable) reward, they don't do any good to any one, in fact it's a sin. Look it up.

You commit the two greatest crimes of all in this regard. You are obviously a talented writer, but you spend your time justifying yourself day in and day out on the internet when you could be campaigning for all sorts of Social Justice issues. You also discourage/prevent the young people who fall into your trap from developing their own talents, becoming educated to their fullest potential, which they could have used to live the life and spread the messages Jesus told us about. But you saw to it that they never fulfilled their potential to serve Jesus, you buried their Talents.

David, I don't read your own web site, so if you would like to respond to this, you will have to do it here.

Regards

Grandma.

Dear Blackhat,

David has been refused access to this site (back many, many pages earlier in the debate) and hence cannot directly access it to personally defend himself although he can obviously instruct some of his "disciples" to do so if he so wishes (Ash, among others in the JC's, still has access to this site for example).....


If I may add to your scriptural injunctions, (and if you don't mind me harping on a earlier theme):


The Sermon on the Mount clearly outlines the nature of the "personality" of those who take Christ's teaching seriously:

"Blessed are the poor in Spirit"; "Blessed are the meek"; "Blessed are the merciful": "Blessed are the pure in heart": "Blessed are the Peacemakers" Matt 5:2,5,7-9

Not only David does display NONE of these qualities,

(...here I judge him by the "fruits" that he deliberately demonizes his opponents, estranges people from friends and family in order that they better devote themsleves to his little empire, pyschologically manipulates those who remain in the Jesuschristians by preying on (publically humiliating, denigrating aspersions, deprivation of sleep, curtailing access to any private income or external social references) of whatever weakness (guilt, fear, loneliness, etc)he is able to find in them, indulges in criminal fraud (encouraging others to "forsake all thier worldly good" to him or his representatives) from which he financially benefits and then deliberately concocting lies to "justify" his activities,)

David teaches those who become part of his religious empire to also abandon such qualities

(....here I judge by the "quality" of the communication that say Fran, Ash and Joseph Johnson, share on the JC website and the nature of the relationship they "enjoy" with their former families and friends...and with the very ideals that they first held when they came into contact with the JesusChristians)


As we may see from (an ever so slightly reworded) opening passage Ist Corinthians 13:

"Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass or a tinkling cymbal,

And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge and though I have all faith so that I could remove mountains and have not charity, I am nothing

And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing

And although I might donate my kidney, and teach English in Africa, and surrendur all that I own to the leaders of my little community, and yet if I delight in vilifying others, enjoy the heartache I can cause in whatever why possible, financially cheat others, and the world in general where ever possible, and surreptiously encourage others to feel inadequate about themselves in order that I may seek to gain from their ultimate membership in my little organization, then, I am nothing"


David has a miniscule number of "proof" texts (e.g. Christ telliing Peter that the "Kings children" do not pay taxes, twisted takes on "Seek ye first the Kingdom of God", "Whoever does not forsake all that he has, cannot be a disciple") which he will employ to ridicule your observations and (within the Jesuschristains internally) to "prove" to the faithful flock that he is "suffering righteous persecution" due to his adamant defence of the gospels admonotion to "live by faith".....(pulled disingenously out of an obscure remark by Paul in Romans) ....

....but of course all that David's "proof" texts ACTUALLY prove in the light of the Sermon on the Mount, and the observations in Corinthians is that David is a "puffed up" nothing who vaunts himself with unseemly behaviour and who rejoices in iniquities (1st Cot. 13: 4-6)

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hello

Quote
zeuszor

Quote
hello
What McKay promotes is called " spiritual addiction".

Please elaborate.

Hi Zeusor!
As Dr. Margaret Paul writes
" Spiritual addiction occurs when people use their spiritual practice as a way to avoid dealing with and taking responsibility for their feelings. ANYTHING that is used to avoid feelings and taking responsibility for feelings becomes an addiction- whether it is alchohol, drugs, food, TV, anger, withdrawal.....meditation ( prayer). "
This is why the JC's will never meet you in person- you would want to communicate with them in a way that involved ' feelings'. If a JC were to admit their feelings- and recognise yours- they would be forced to take personal and collective responsibility for their actions. Therefore it's much easier for them to remove the stimuli. You- for example- are a threat to their denied selves. This is why- as a group- and individually they lack empathy- and the feelings of others are projected by the JC's as both excessive and incredibly frightening.

Hope that makes things clearer. :)

Lately I have been reading a book by Father Leo Booth. It is entitled, "Breaking the Chains: Understanding Religious Addiction and Religious Abuse." Ingenious book, it is.

It reads like a blueprint of a totalistic, rule-based religious system eerily similar in nature to what we observe in the JCs. Uncanny.

Later tonight I'll type out some relevant selections from it and you can decide for yourself whether the JCs are promoting" religious addiction." Sound like they are to me.

Hi Zeusor!
Please do! I think a discussion of this is long overdue. Hopefully some of the members may read this forum and recognise themselves.

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hello
Hi Zeusor!
Please do! I think a discussion of this is long overdue. Hopefully some of the members may read this forum and recognise themselves.

Hi hello. How have you been?

I agree; this is long overdue.

Booth, Leo. Breaking the Chains: Understanding Religious Addiction and Religious Abuse. (Long Beach CA, Emmaus Publications, 1989) p. 67-68:

Symptoms of Religious Addiction:
1. Thinking only in terms of black and white-simplistic thinking.
2. Obsessive praying, going to church, attending missions or crusades, talking about God, quoting Scripture.
3. Neglecting world news, forgetting engagements and missing or avoiding family gatherings.
4. Thinking that the world and our physical bodies are evil.
5. Refusing to think, doubt, or question.
6. Belief that sex id “dirty.”
7. Excessive fasting and compulsive overeating.
8. Unrealistic financial contributions.
9. Excessive judgmental attitudes.
10. Being brainwashed and attempting to brainwash; developing mind control.
11. Isolation from others.
12. Attitudes of conflict with science/hospitals/schools.
13. Becoming physically sick (back pains, sleeplessness, headaches).
14. Receiving strange messages from God or angels.
15. Staring-going into a trance.
16. Dramatic personality changes.
17. Unrealistic fears-the “disease cycle” of guilt, remorse, and shame.
18. Family dysfunction-the breakdown of family relationships.
19. Geographical moves.
20. Cries for help; physical and mental breakdown; hospitalization.
From page 71: “Many scholars of the New Testament will tell you that the rabbinic style of teaching was to make extreme statements to provoke thought; to push a truth to an extreme in order to create a reaction. In a similar way, Jesus was confronting society, His disciples, the world. But it is an abuse, an injustice, to take His teachings and interpret them literally. He was not expecting his disciples or future generations to chop off their hands or pull out their eyes; rather, Jesus was presenting a challenging message that would easily be remembered.”
Religious texts used and manipulated to justify such behavior: Matthew 10:21, Matthew 19:29, Mark 9:43-47.

The only ones I can't really see in the JCs are numbers 6, 13, and 20. What do you say, everybody?

Send me an email,. OK hello?