We were told not only to trust Jack but to honor him. If I would question things, or express that I felt something was "off" then I would get in trouble. Asked why I couldn't be like the other kids among the "youth". I didn't have an answer. The leadership started to use the younger generation against each other. They manipulated, did the who's better than crap etc.

There was an ounce of researchable truth in some of the teachings. Meaning you could buy the book off the shelf of any store, or order it online. So it was easy to believe that maybe this was just a better understand of the work. But it was easy to believe because it was what we were told from birth.

I would get up and speak and encourage the youth to pray, to feel comfortable in large groups etc etc. The problem is the more I went "against the grain" the less I was welcomed places.

I grew up with the Ramu kids, Delalios, the Walshes etc etc. There were hiatuses because my family moved a lot. But I was always encouraged to pick up relationships I had dropped. But they don't know what to say to me and I have nothing to say to them.

I sometimes think, what if I took a trip to a 'family' meeting or retreat, and I spoke to all present? Do I have the courage to do that? I'm not sure.

I've been on the "left-side" (anyone remember that one) for so long. I never tythed. My ex-husband was not part of the group.


Oh well. Thank you Pnina for sharing everything. I tossed my teaching materials out a long time ago.

Well I heard the same old Jack.

1)He talked down Christians. He used the same old anti-Charismatic jargon that he began in the 70s. In fact he was quoted in the 1975 article ''Charismatics Alive and Well''., as saying similar stuff.

2)He gave an unnecessarily long description of jesus and john in the water. Go figure.

3)He went on to explain why people who question the standard definition of ''MORALITY'' are more spriitually advanced.
That sounds about right.
Maybe his teachings prior to 1982 were more ''subtle'' but after 1982 he was pretty standard.
You know... ''a more highly evolved person questions the commonly accepted definition of right and wrong''.
So yeh..in the tape he uses silly sounding words to describe the more advanced man who can use his ''feminine'' side to question the definition of what is ''MORAL''..
Honestly. That sounds like the same old Jack.


Personally, I think that the commonly accepted standard for what is ''MORAL'' is a good one. I also think that adults who corrupt the morals of a minor should be reported to the proper authorities but. .... that's just me.

So in his last years of his life Hickaman likened himself to John the Baptist? Did I read that correctly? So there is a new ''jesus'' ? Is that it?
Well that's new.
But the masculine / feminine union and ''not judging'' is old stuff. The rantings about how ''true wisdom'' is not ''knowlede'' because no one can ''know the truth'' it must be ''experienced''...that's all the same.
Since 1982.
Anyway he paints a jesus/john relationship which is new to me. I was raised on the jonathan/david thing.
So I highligted some of it.
============================================================================
THE WORDS OF JACK HICKMAN

''Elohim is a plural word that is both feminine and masculine: Elo - feminine; him - masculine. The functions of Elohim are both masculine and feminine.

===========
I don't know how many of you have read much in the Gospel of the Nazirenes, but when Yeshua came to John the Baptist in the water of the Jordan, he was thirty years old. He and John had a talk about the appropriateness of this, but Yeshua demanded it. Some of you guys may not know this, because you may never have taken a mikveh, but you are supposed to have someone there to push your head down under the water. The whole body has to be submerged in a mikveh, with water over your head. That's what John did with Yeshua.

After Yeshua had taken the mikveh, a bird, a dove flew overhead and then there was a voice. I'm just talking about it, not quoting exactly, but the first thing the voice said was, "I have been waiting for you for a very long time." .........etc. etc...... Up to that point, Yeshua had been just another man, but at that point, he had become anointed by God in the spiritual sense. His life was changed, and he went away from that experience with a completely different understanding of who he was. etc...etc...blah blah blah


That's exactly what happened to Yeshua when he took the mikveh in the Jordan River with John the Baptist, his cousin. He didn't know what was going to happen. He came to that point, and if you could ever hear the whole story, you would learn that he didn't want to go down there. He had this inner urge (I'll talk about that from time to time) to do this thing. The rest of his family went down there to John, but Yeshua didn't do that. He held back, which was very much the man in him. It was never a matter that he didn't trust God; rather, he didn't trust himself. ...etc. etc....blah blah blah
===============================
.
The first of the thirty-two mysterious paths of wisdom is the path that is probably more difficult than any other path; not just because the masculine must come to a point of identification with feminine energy and mentality, but because you do not know who you are, what you are, why you exist, or why things have happened to you that have happened. ......etc. etc. blah blah blah....
What is the first verse in the Torah? Bereshit bara Elohim. What are those three words? God is speaking. When a human speaks, what is happening physically? [Answer: Vibrating air through the mouth.] That's right. How do we make that happen? We breathe in and breathe out, and create speech. When we talk, we blow it out. That's how it works, physically. Who or what is doing this? [I assume he is referring now to the verse above. JH] God's Spirit, etc...etc... Elohim is the breath of God, Ruach haKodesh. Elohim is our experience with the first step of the thirty-two steps of wisdom, because it brings together the masculine and the feminine.
etc..etc...blah blah blah...

=================
We walk this Path to learn how to become one with everybody and everything. Sometimes only you can experience that oneness, because other people don't want it. Most people don't [want it], but that doesn't stop you from acting, which is the only way you can do it. You just react; not in repulsion or in anger, or by trying to start a fight
etc...etc...blah blah blah

====================

What is spiritual? What is spirituality? Elohim is spirituality. I think you know by now that when you were born, there was within most of you the holy seed, that tiny thing that is a pocket from which the seed can break out. If you are born from above, that [breaking out] happens, and that makes this kind of life much easier................



=========================================================================

[www.youtube.com]
Here is some more of his coherent and awe inspiring words (please note the sarcasm)
No Fear Folks!

I just glad some of us have forethought to save it. :)

Quote
Sallie
So in his last years of his life Hickaman likened himself to John the Baptist? Did I read that correctly? So there is a new ''jesus'' ? Is that it?
Well that's new.
But the masculine / feminine union and ''not judging'' is old stuff. The rantings about how ''true wisdom'' is not ''knowlede'' because no one can ''know the truth'' it must be ''experienced''...that's all the same.
Since 1982.
Anyway he paints a jesus/john relationship which is new to me. I was raised on the jonathan/david thing.
So I highligted some of it.
============================================================================
THE WORDS OF JACK HICKMAN -

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if anyone wants to read or hear JH, that's fine. we now have a place to do that. [www.youtube.com]

reading it doesn't make him 'sound' like the pychotic pedophile he was!

i think others, (who have been more hurt than I), might find this offensive.

personally i don't want his 'sh*t' posted on this forum. it just doesn't sit well with me.

Exfollower- I agree. Reading his teachings is a very small part of the story. It makes him sound nonsensical and maybe a bit cuckoo, but benign. There are the words, and there are the actions of the adults in reaction to the words. Each religion is filled with different ideas and interpretaions. I'm not against them being posted. Refreshing that someone has the guts to post them. But realize that the words heard by those of us who have experienced the full effect of this in our lives are going to sound different than to those who don't have the experience of living this. I don't want to partake in a discussion on his beliefs. Who cares. people are entitled to believe any thing they like. people believe all kids of things that sound as crazy as this loony old man. what I care about is the reality that was created around these beliefs- the things that are justified by this group based on them. The "covenant" both written and unwritten that is forced upon the children because their parents chose it for all proceeding generations. The veiled threats of doom if you dare to voice your own opinion, or *gasp* follow your own path.
If not for anything else, posting the teachings may give some of us a feeling of satisfaction. I can just imagine the expressions of angst on some of their faces as they click on the links.

OK the last over my audio clips are done. That should be all of that crap thing. I might have gotten carried with the legos. But really if I had to listen to that crap there needed to be a pay off!

Exfollower,
This is a thread entitled Jack Hickman
The board is called Abusive and Controlling realationships
The forum is called Cult Education

By posting Jack's teaching about the jesus/john bath experience...you feel I am harming????? Who??? Who am I harming?????

So one of the young man who was coerced by his parents to spend ''alone time'' with Jack ended up in a mental hospital...in the early 1990s....in New York..
There is a website about Jack Hickman which claims that Jack and Gary Coons were in California from 1983 - 1996.
I wonder how that is possible?
This boy spent time with Jack Hickman in the early 1990s.
In New York.
Anyhooo.......

Jack was teaching him.
I think the teachings of Jack are very relevant.
I imagine this young man who ended up in a mental hospital would say the same thing.
He was taught about reincarnation. Souls. Some souls being more evolved than others. How one might get reborn or evolve.
Those teachings were very relevant.
Apparently some actions were justified based on those teachings and.....for the young man....it ended up badly.