The open letter was very funny but....The ''history'' part of this article says

'' Jack had one service on Sundays for the crowd that was younger and in many cases on drugs (not necessarily at the services). This was the 1970’s after all. Our parents did copious amounts of drugs. Marijuana, LSD, psilocybin mushrooms, cocaine, heroine, alcohol, pharmaceuticals, tobacco. Not all of the kids in that period were using, but many of them did. etc. etc.......

Jack’s brand of ranting sermons began to draw very large crowds for a church in the 70’s. etc. etc.....

He preached a form of Charismatic Christianity for a while. Holy rolling, speaking in tongues, casting out demons. St. John’s was like a Pentecostal church, where Jack claimed to have divine powers. This sort of thing brought in loads of money and created a cult following around Jack.

He said demons would be possessing church goers since we were entering the tribulation period where God would punish humanity. According to Jack, the brunt of Satan’s wrath would be directed at his followers and a plague of demons would attack them to test Jack’s followers, to see who was righteous and who was wicked. Due to the power of suggestion (our parents were Charismatic Christians after all and Charismatic Christianity is based on the power of suggestion and hypnotic trance according to studies by psychologists), people were not just speaking in tongues anymore, they believed that evil spirits were talking through them too.

Jack and Lou began conducting exorcisms en masse. This brought in even more money. Think about it, if you believed you were being attacked by evil spirits and only these two men stood between you and the devil, you would likely start giving up 10% of your income (Jack called it tithe) to the prophet too.''
======================================================================================================================================================


I don't remember it that way at all. I remember they would dance and sing all the time. They would do these Jewish dances in big round circles. People would go up for prayer a lot. I believe there were all sorts of prophecies.

But LSD trips? Exorcisms en masse?
Does anyone remember that?

The 1975 article ''Charismatics alive and Well'' actually quotes Jack Hickman stating that he was not charismatic.
I think this is correct.
I remember this ''born again'' phase. Jack would talk down about charismatics. He said they lived ''off the froth'' like...the foam that comes up off of a wave.
That's what Jack Hickman would say about charismatics. Something like that. Jack would say that they had no depth.
I'm certain of that.
And that is consistent with the way that the article quotes him.
I recall people in 1975 listening to tapes all the time. Special teachings. Prophesies. Dancing in circles to Jewish music. That was 1975. I'm certain of it.
Jack introduced Judaism in a ''charismatic'' sort of way if that makes any sense so...in that sense....the dancing and all things may have been charismatic.
But exorcisms and crazed tongue chanting. Maybe...maybe he did tongues. But I certainly have no memory of it. They were doing Jewish dances and ...and talking down about the charismatics.

Does anyone else remember?

And these folks ...these adults...they were straight. I'm sorry but these were not LSD junkies. They worked. They were educated.

The era of the 70s may have been a drug era for society at large. But the church? No. I just don't remember it that way at all.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/04/2011 09:56AM by Sallie.

I think the letter is very funny and that part about the drugs is meant to be a joke by exageration. The exorcisms meant to be an exageration as well. Some of the "church people" were also drug users. That is a fact. Probably not much LSD but other drugs, yes. This would be on the outside, not during services. These were a bunch of messed up people. A few exocisms did occur but not as a revenue source. The article is so funny in that it has written up the facts, and added some exageration for a very comic effect. It's great. In doing so it gets the point across as to how absurd it all is and was.

The open letter is very funny. The article about the group's history is not the same as the open letter. The article about the group's history mentions very specific drugs. It didn't come off as comical to me. I think it was written as fact. In fact...Maincooncat....you are also stating that there were drug users...maybe not LSD but other drugs? What other drugs?

If this group was founded by some off beat hippies it would have a completely different foundation than the one I recall. The 1970s in and of itself was an era where people in the USA did drug experimentation. But the church? Who is claiming that this church was comprised of drug users? That is the complete opposit of what I remember. People claim drug use is a fact? According to who?

I think the fact is that the ''inner circle'' who stuck around were in their right minds. I think their sanity is very relevant. I think their lack of drug use makes them responsible for their actions. They weren't under the influence of drugs nor were they brainwashed. They stuck around with Jack after 1981. What does a child do when the ''nicest'' Mom in the neighborhood is ''turning the other cheek'' towards her brother-in -law whose sex partner is his 9 year old daughter? If that ''really nice mom'' were a crazed hippy then the child might not have grown up so confused and incapable of discerning right from wrong. Would they?

The description of Jack Hickman surrounding himself with young men? Not my memories. I recall Jack liking families.
I recall Jack's special fondness for ''moms''. Women with no sexual boundaries and no ability or desire to protect their children.
Had Jack surrounded with nothing but good looking young men I'd say that ...in hind sight...gosh..he was gay. But my memories of Jack are memories of a man who liked families. Moms. Kids......
That does not make me think of a homosexual. No. That makes me think of a pedaphile.

These were not drug users. They were not crazed charismatic. They were sober. They were in their right minds. They had good jobs and lived in nice neighborhoods. Those facts are extremely relevent. Gary Coons stuck around with Jack. Not because of brainwashing. Not because of drugs. Gary and the others who stuck around did it for reasons that can't be rationalized. It was wrong. They are bad.



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 08/04/2011 10:24PM by Sallie.

Quote
exfollower

Quote
Sallie
Gary is described as a nice guy. He's not. He's just not.
Gary Coons. Big sweet smile as he gave me a helping hand.
That's my clearest memory of him. Nice? Yeh. Yeh he was. To me.
But I still loathe him.
I don't care how he acted in public. I do believe he corroborated with Jack. I do believe that young men have been harmed by Jack and that Gary also gave them a ''different'' sort of helping hand.

sallie - believe it or not, we all feel that way!!!

I'm not sure, but I think Sallie that you misunderstand Exfollower here. I believe he is saying "we all feel that way" meaning Gary is NOT nice. Correct me if I'm wrong Ex.

As for speaking in tongues, I'm only in my 30s so I didn't witness what went on in the beginning, but my father has mentioned people being overcome in services and speaking in tongues.

Pequagirl is a troll. I gave this person who is probably a fat middle aged man my name and told her things and she leaked it to Gary! Do not trust this person under any circumstance.

I thought Sallie was paranoid, but I think she is sometimes right. Be very careful. These people are creating trolls to trap victims and to keep tabs on them. There are some truly evil people in this group.

OK. This is getting out of hand. No, mygoodname, I told no one anything that you told me. But, here is the problem. I am not a troll. The scary part is- if you think I am a troll, then there are other trolls out there making you think that I am. What are the trolls trying to find out? I am terrified. I have a family of my own that I do not think I can protect from these crazies. I am sorry I ever posted on this forum. So, we can trust no one.

Quote
My Good Name
Pequagirl is a troll. I gave this person who is probably a fat middle aged man my name and told her things and she leaked it to Gary! Do not trust this person under any circumstance.

I thought Sallie was paranoid, but I think she is sometimes right. Be very careful. These people are creating trolls to trap victims and to keep tabs on them. There are some truly evil people in this group.

mygoodname - well... either you talked to people, other than pequagirl, or ... you are the troll, or someone hacked your computer or email.

some of us on this forum know one-another, so... we may be old and our memory is fading :) , but we know there are certain people that can be trusted.

OK this is really getting out of hand. I know this post will be blasted by "Sallie" (if that is HER name and if she is indeed a SHE---see the paranoia can roll both ways). I was born in 1955. My mother and father knew PequaGIRL'S mother and father. She is indeed a SHE ....our parents go way back at St Johns. She is indeed who she says she is....someone searching for some answers because of having family members still in the cult and being worried to death for them.

Again I say, I am sick over the damage this cult has caused ALL OF US!!!! I know Exfollower, know Pequagirl and it makes me sick that people who are actually seeking more info on this sick cult or wanting to expose this sick group are being beaten up by the very people (ie Sallie and now Mygoodname)they are trying to have a dialogue with over this.

I finally agree with something Sallie said in that it is not whether Jack was gay--- the issue is HE WAS A PEDOPHILE.....PEDOPHILIA is the issue here...betrayal at its highest form. Using people's search to connect with something spiritual to abuse, defile and damage them on such a deep level.

I agree with what she said about ppl like Richie and Phillip "pimping" out their brothers to get closer to the sick bastard Jack Hickman! Yes I think in the beginning Gary may have been an 'innocent' but he soon became a victim of Jack's and then went on to become an abuser himself! Does the abuse or deception he went through make him a victim and not responsible for what he has done...NO.....NOT AT ALL. He may not have been evil in the beginning but he certainly at some point decided to continue the abuse and perpetrate it on others...something DESPICABLE AND REVOLTING AND HE, (ALONG WITH THE OTHERS IN THIS CULT) SHOULD HAVE TO BE HELD RESPONSIBLE FOR THEIR ACTIONS!!!

I guess I am not sure what the purpose of this forum is if not to exposed those people who have violated young people and continue to do so. Name names....see if others can Name NAMES and then for the love of justice and what is right EXPOSE THESE PEOPLE.

I'll start naming some names. Joan and Frank Utting ALLOWED their son to go through abuse at the hands of Jack without protecting him. They allowed him to be 'shunned' for a while. They encouraged him to spend time with Jack...in fact they felt honored that their son was 'picked' by Jack. HOW FRIGGIN SICK IS THAT??????? They KNEW about the passing of the seed (just typing that makes me sick) and yet they still handed over their son to Jack in hopes of moving up in the hierarchy of 'the Family".....talk about sick!!

OK now that I have posted again, go ahead Sallie...start raking me over the coals, accusing me of being whatever. Apparently you are allowed to say or do anything on this forum and it is supported by the moderator..that alone makes me think....if there are Trolls here...maybe you are one of them. Maybe that is why you are never corrected by the moderator, maybe you attempt to throw suspicion away from yourself by being toxic and accusing everyone else who attempts to post here for information or trying to get facts correct. People have asked you to name Names and get to the point so that people can be EXPOSED.

Hey long time Jack victim, first time writing. May I ask what everyone is so paranoid about? These people have no power, no control, no balls. Why are so many of you fearing retribution?