Ok let's all try this..
Never mind me.
Parsifal has a site which says they've been in business since 1981?
Their hand book states that they began as a two man operation.
Gary Coons and Mark Olsen
Right?
Ok.
Well how did they do that?
With Gary hiding out in California and Mark Olsen raising a family here on Long Island?
How did they start a business together?

Besides the fact that I personally know that Jack and Gary were here on the Island.

Gary Coons and Jack HIckman were here on the Island.
That just is what it is.

Why are they telling people they were hiding out in California?

Marvin,
is it possible that I "misread" you? Yes it is. Is it possible you are who you say you are? Yes it is. Is it possible that you are simply responding with a good heart to other posts meant to dissuade people from anger because you are genuinely a good person? Yes. It is possible. I don't know if it's true but it is possible. I will have to take a moment to re-read through the posts. I know that something that you said triggered me. I will re-read. I am sorry if I have falsely accused you. But I feel threatened. I wanted other people to know there are people who should not be trusted on this board. Perhaps I will just let other people read your posts and they can speak for themselves.

Let me reiterate something and maybe help explain some of my own earlier and somewhat silly postings.

For the young people who have been told a different story. Let me explain. This is THE TRUTH. Truth is not ''relative''...it is not ''what you want it to be'' it is not ''the expression of love and acceptance''....
Truth is what happened and what can be proven.

The truth....
1982 and onward....

In the 1980s, after the fallout, some of the ''youth'' whose parents remained faithful would continue to attend ''tribe meetings''. In order to go to these meetings you had to have parents who decided ''passing sperm'' was a godly dictate or...you had to be a true believer.

The ages of these young folks ranged from approx. 16 - 21. So these would be
They had these groups going on prior to Bloody Sunday but after Bloody Sunday the nature of these groups...I believe ...changed.

They TAUGHT DECEPTION
There were lessons...long lessons given on HOW TO DECEIVE.
They were teaching that PERSecution was coming and that the ''family'' would have to go into ''MARRANO'' mode.
A marrano, we were told...was a ''cloaked'' jew. The had to hide their identities by creating totally different personas. Different styles of talking. Different ways of writing. It was a type of ''ACTING'' and the ''teachers'' encouraged their ''students'' to sort of ...take on or...believe in ...the role they were playing.

Think of it. A deceiver is a sort of actor. Right?

They also began teaching about polygraph tests and how to lie on a polygraph test. How to control your body functions when you were nervous or give a ''half-truth'' so your body response wouldn't trick the machine.

I'm not joking.
I'm serious.
This is what was going on in the 80s. All throughout the 80s.
Jack Hickman and Gary Coons were on the Island.

These groups were a place where Gary Coons could sort through the different personalities and discover which were ''worthy'' of staying or getting closer to him and Jack.

Ok...let's think about it. Which traits do you think Gary was looking for? What type of people would get drawn in closer to the second ''inner circle'' wave?
If someone was ''on the fence'' or had family that were ''doubters'' they wouldn't get too close to Jack and Gary. Does that sound reasonable? Possible?
I'm thinking that some families stayed on the fringes sort of or returned after the re-invite. Those families had/have
children who are raised by these ''inner circle'' deceivers. That's what I'm guessing.

The second ''inner circle GROUP'' are deceivers.
Deliberate decievers.
You have to ''embrace deception'' in order to even get close to these people.
They're not believers.
None of them. The ''inner GROUP'' who has always been close to Gary Coons were not, imo, EVER true believers.
I could go on about that for days. But it would become very boring.

But I'm telling the truth about Gary Coons and his closest friends...the CORE GROUP.
They are deceivers.

ALSO...during the 1970s...the church DID NOT attract hordes of hippy/addicts. Not at all. Not even a little.

If anyone would type ''danjo'' into the author search and read his accounts they are, imo, very clear and give a very accurate feel for what was going on in the 70s. He's a bit older than me. His 70s account would be better than mine. But I can testify that..from my perspective...he is very accurate.

Hickman was about UPPER CLASS AND EDUCATED FAMILIES.
Not hippies.
Not drug addicts.

The youth in MAINE AND COLORODO are being DELIBERATELY MISLED by the same CORE GROUP that considered deceiving and acting and lying on a polygraph to be ''of god''......

I just want people to know where I'm coming from.

You know someone just reminded me that those young folks who GARY COONS scouted out to be part of his ''close best buddies'' were not necessarily to blame for having characteristics and traits that Gary liked.

Under better circumstances I'm sure those traits could evolve into something very good.

=====================================================================================================================================================

Meanwhile
Check out something that Corboy posted on antother forum over four years ago.
It just goes to show how similar all these cults can be ...


Corboy posted this in 2007
He wrote.....


''They capitalize on two things: Harmful people and groups often re-write their history and exploit that most seekers will not fact check.

Rewriting History

1) Even in relation to ghastly scandals, public memory is short. All one has to do is wait a long time, then offer sanitized histories of controversial organizations and groups.

Often, names of organizations or controversial leaders are changed, and the actual histories of the group become part of the 'family secret' that is with held from newcomers.

Once you get emotionally involved, you have formed friendships, often initially seem to benefit from what the group has to offer. Outer circle members, especially those who are sweet people and have businesses that are likely to attract recruits (eg teachers at yoga studios), may never be told the true and ugly history of an organization. Those in the outer circles will have NO frame of reference for any evidence of abuse and will be horrified, even indignant if any suggestion is made that thier beloved group has a secret history and track record of abuse that is well hidden.

Often, inner circle members who directly serve the guru are the ones who know the inside dope. They may be specially recruited into this position if they show evidence of having codependent talents--as many do who seek healing through spiritual venues. Once people join the inner circle of a group they may be led to see and do things that leave them ashamed to leave and they are trapped. They may rationalize the abuse they suffer as evidence that they are priviliged, and tough enough to see the guru's cruelty as actually a blessing and that anyone concerned about cruelty is either ungrateful or a weak and unworthy worm.

[i:88816295b6](Note: it is amazing to see how often in supposedly spiriutal organizations, a sophisticated rhetoric of invalidation is used to re-frame cruelty as a blessing and that compassion and honesty are re-framed as evidence of inferiority and weakness. If you can let a guru convince you that shit is sugar that proves you are highly evolved and that anyone who goes 'yuck!' is inferior.)[/i:88816295b6]

Here are examples of gurus whose followers re-wrote history. THey get away with this because so very few spiritual seekers know that real spiritual traditions actually value discernment and prize critical thinking as essential for any aspirant. It is those who create bogus traditions who devalue critical thinking.

Rajneesh, the guy who collected Rolls Royces and tried to affect a local election in Oregon by having followers taint a salad bar at a restaurant with salmonella to keep townspeople home sick so that ashramites could cast the deciding votes---he died and his successors have changed his name to 'Osho.'

Adi Da is now known as Adi Da Samiraj. He hides out on an island in the South Pacific, waited on hand and foot by devotees. Few are allowed to see him until they are so devoted (and preferably wealthy) that they are capable of rationalizing anything. His trashed physical appearance is disguised on the publicity posters.

Siddha/SYDA yoga, founded by Muktananda, did all it could to revise its history by destroying past issues magazines. When one of its gurus (Nityananda) was purged, all of his pictures were destroyed en-masse.

Few Bother to Fact Check

2) Most spiritual seekers are socialized to be naive and trusting and to consider any sort of prudent fact-checking a 'negative' state of mind.

There is an amazing double standard. It is considered wise and praiseworthy to consult Consumer Reports and fact check big ticket purchases such as a car, laptop, house, etc.

But any suggestion that it is just as wise to check the background of someone who proposes to alter your mind and belief system--people screetch that that is negative and horrid and that 'you have to take a leap of faith.'

Come on. Would we let just anyone log on and re-format the hard drive on our computers?

At least if such a person were incompetant and messed our computer up, that sitaution could be fixed. But if someone messes up our minds, that is hard to repair, maybe in some cases impossible. Family relations can be destroyed beyond repair, too.

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October 09, 2007 05:46AMgreg hamond
Date Added: 10/06/2007
Posts: 68 adi da / love anandaone reviewer did say SWAMI MUKTANANDA told him he was a scammer but they dont say where and when this happened...so who knows!!!!!

the other reviews..its like they prepped to say overly positive things......"his great sacrifice,,,despite the fact he abused me" or something like that,,.....see the reviews at amazon.....

=======================================================================================================================================================

I am sorry if anyhting I posted made you, or anyone else, feel threatened in any way. I will send you a private message with more nfo on me so you will better understand where I am. When I first found the message board I was shocked to say the least about things that happened and that I was not aware of any of them. I have never hid my name from this board nor the fact that for the last three years , prior to Sunday Bloody Sunday, I was an elder and part of what I thopught was an inner circle of spiritual minded men who felt a responsibility to our family and to do what we were taught was the right thing. I may have seemed to come to the defense of people like Don Smested because I could not even in my wildest nightmare imagine him being involved in things that I was reading. Thank you for being open minded and responding to my post. I wish others were more like you. Others who find it necessary to attack and never seem to give others the benefit of the doubt or even have the common courtesy to respond to private messages.
Be well and please know I am sorry if anything I posted lead to any distrust or feelings of unease.

Quote
disillusioned1
Marvin,
is it possible that I "misread" you? Yes it is. Is it possible you are who you say you are? Yes it is. Is it possible that you are simply responding with a good heart to other posts meant to dissuade people from anger because you are genuinely a good person? Yes. It is possible. I don't know if it's true but it is possible. I will have to take a moment to re-read through the posts. I know that something that you said triggered me. I will re-read. I am sorry if I have falsely accused you. But I feel threatened. I wanted other people to know there are people who should not be trusted on this board. Perhaps I will just let other people read your posts and they can speak for themselves.

Gary Coons still teaches about the ''Holy Seed''?
If so then he is teaching about sperm.
In other words he is ''grooming'' members.
No matter what age the men are...this is not good.

They are CLEARLY being GROOMED for sexual exploitation.
Any man no matter what his age could become a victim of Gary Coons and his friends.
I would think the abuse would be more problematic for the men who fall into his trap when they are older because they would be more reluctant to step forward and admit that they'd been tricked.

======================================================================

In 1982 and on the entire GROUP had beliefs about SPERM/SEED
I remember being horrified all throughout the 1980s by the fact that the GROUP of inner circle women would shamelessly discuss the fact that their sons did or did not ''SPILL SEED'' while they slept. They were talking about wet dreams. What a violation?
=========================================================================
In the 32 Paths in 2001 Jack says about THE SEED
'' I think you know by now that when you were born, there was within most of you the HOLY SEED, that tiny thing that is a pocket from which the seed can break out. If you are born from above, that [breaking out] happens, and that makes this kind of life much easier................
===========================================================================

Here's a Q. and A. from the 32 Paths

Q. Jack Hickman asks
''What is the first verse in the Torah? Bereshit bara Elohim. What are those three words? God is speaking. When a human speaks, what is happening physically? ''

[Answer: VIBRATING AIR THROUGH THE MOUTH]

Jack gleefully responds
''THAT'S RIGHT. HOW DO WE MAKE THAT HAPPEN? We breathe in and breathe out, and create speech. When we talk, WE BLOW IT OUT. That's how it works, physically. Who or what is doing this? [I assume he is referring now to the verse above. JH] God's Spirit, etc...etc... Elohim is the breath of God, Ruach haKodesh. Elohim is our experience with the first step of the thirty-two steps of wisdom, because it brings together the masculine and the feminine.
etc..etc...blah blah blah...[/quote]
======================================================================================================================================================

It seems to me like there is paradigm shift happening, and I see it on here as well as with other people that I have spoken to. These are my thoughts, and why I lashed out at concerned.

First, some people/parents have tried to say that IF parts of the Foibles article (like the animal sacrifice) are untrue, then the ENTIRE article is untrue. Concerned did not make this full allusion, but they did ask for "fact" an awful lot. This is nice attempt to help the youth who may be reading this say... no one ever heard of THAT part... maybe the rest is just lies also. Like we've always been taught. Dennis was a digusting homo (not I don't actually think it, it's the group mindset), and Lou was a liar and not to be trusted and abused his position. This is what we were told. A "nasty" few ruined the "good" works that Jack & Gary were trying to create.

This is bull honky. I think we've all seen enough to know that the article is true for the stuff that matters. But it's just one of the tactics that I am noticing.

Seconds tactic: abuse IS awful. I feel so bad for you. Those people should be punished. How "brave" or "courageous" we all are for sharing our abuse stories right?

Wrong. By agreeing with you and stroking your inner victim, you feel better don't you? You feel like, wow that was crappy, and you ARE nice person because you've justified my anger. Who has been accused here so far? Jack? Gary? Not by a first hand account, right? So again, the group leaders can say... oh don't worry. That just happened in THOSE families. Some people were just sick anyway. It was not widespread. It's the individuals problem, not the groups. Again, the group is protected by putting up "those few" to take the blame.

Third tactic: the fact tactic. Where are all the facts? What is a fact? What is the truth? If we don't have those... all these people could just be gossipy. They could be jealous because the group didn't give them what they were looking for. "oh they never fit in" "oh they always had problems" It lets them explain it all away.
There's the problem: this is a GROUP of people. Didn't Jack even teach us that each "eye witness" account of something would be different, because each person is different. They never put anything in writing that was incriminating. As people have said before... it's not being a part of a religious group that's a crime. They carefully hid that stuff that would be.

Fourth tactic: talk is cheap.
What do I mean? How many posters on here have "asked for help." Quite a lot. I'm suspicious of ALL of you. Why are you asking for help? Either you have balls enough to confront your family members or you don't. Period. What about the people offering help? Read some posts by surfer... he's really helpful. Licensed psychiatrist giving us all free counseling lessons out of the kindness of his heart? No. I dont' think so. I could be wrong. But I'm suspicious.
By writing out some carefull phrased questions and answers... as Sallie has pointed out... they set you up.
1) They find out who you are. If you answer one of their questions, they'll know if you've told other people and what you've told other people so they can develop a group response to it to keep the sheeple happy when it upsets them.
2) They discourage other people to talk to their family members. It's really not that hard. You pick up the phone, you say I heard you're in a cult. I fear for your safety. Tell me what is going on or I'm going to call the cops because I'm concerned about your wellbeing. It's really that easy. But if you've read on here that it's not worth trying to change people's minds, that they are all in a "fixed delusion," you might not even try right? You might be defeated before you even pick up the phone. Especially if you REALLY don't know what's going on, and you've heard talk of bows and arrows and retribution of some sort.

Fifth Tactic: It was ALL Jack.
Sallie is right. Jack could not have operated alone. He had help. Where the hell did Gary come from? Why was he suddenly on the scene and Lou was not? What happened there? Anyway... Gary stayed with Jack, after the article, after knowing the men involved and he "left" with Jack and travelled with him. Gary wasn't born into this. He was 17-ish and CHOSE to stay. He showed up at the door and CHOSE to stay. Now he's CHOOSING to lead, or leave if we can believe mainecooncat. Gary TAUGHT THE YOUTH ABOUT THE SEED. I was there. I remember Jack saying... "Gary has been working on a special project.. giggle giggle. He's a little embarrassed,.. giggle, giggle, but it's time that he take his rightful place and begin teaching you." Gary taught us ALL about how a SEED works, and why it's important. We were all encouraged to be "born from above" after that? Anyone else remember?

Just stop trusting people on here. Really. Unless they can tell you within reasonable limits who they are... don't trust them. If people are not willing to share things openly on the message board, don't believe their pm's. They are baiting you. They want to find out who we all are.. who are all these youth on the forum? How can we discredit them and shut them up? How can we combat what they are saying as "truth."

Again, I am Freckle Face. I am not giving out my name, but if we've met... read my blog: butseriouslybaby.blogspot.com and you will QUICKLY know who I am. I'm not telling you to trust me. Maybe you shouldn't. I had posted on the internet a personal letter someone sent to me recently. Why would I do that? Because it wasn't honest. If you are honest. I'll talk to you. If you want to know what I know, then ask. Ask me on here. I'll tell you. Stop hiding.

Quote
disillusioned1
It seems to me like there is paradigm shift happening, and I see it on here as well as with other people that I have spoken to. These are my thoughts, and why I lashed out at concerned.

First, some people/parents have tried to say that IF parts of the Foibles article (like the animal sacrifice) are untrue, then the ENTIRE article is untrue. Concerned did not make this full allusion, but they did ask for "fact" an awful lot. This is nice attempt to help the youth who may be reading this say... no one ever heard of THAT part... maybe the rest is just lies also. Like we've always been taught.

to all - the animal sacrifice story is true. i had a friend who was there. it happened at the southold house. in the back, by the water. he said they put up 'tarps' as 'walls'. he said - "the daylight streaming thru the tarps, gave it all a surrealistic feel." - and, yes, - jack didn't 'do it right'.

how's that, specific enough?

so ... by the 'families' logic... if that is true, (it is). - and did happen, (it did)... - what other facts are 'the family' denying, that are also true?

I recall more than one member talking about the Abraham/Isaac/Jacob blessing in the book of Genesis. Apparently the group believed that when Abraham was dying he passed on the ''blessing'' which was his sperm..by having Isaac put his hand under his thigh...etc. etc..you get the picture.
Then each generation would continue on passing the blessing/seed/sperm in such a way.

The newspaper article...I thought it mentioned that. But I tried reading it again and didn't find any mention of Abraham having someone put his hand under the thigh. The article just mentions masturbating and how Jack was so straight faced and calm as he talked about it.
Well...my memories are of the late 1980s. Those were the years when Jack and Gary were ''hiding in plain sight'' right here on Long Island.

Mikvehs....I know there were mikvehs/community baths ... on Long Island.

Jack mentions the special and private jesus/john mikveh bath in his 32 paths.

I know there were always special teachings. Closed teachings. Private teachings etc. etc.

Did Gary Coons ever give any young men private special teachings about mikvehs and seed passing?

Wait... I was born in 1980. I went to ganon (or how ever the hell you spell it) 1985-86. Our schoolhouse (if I remember correctly) was on his (Jack's) property. His frickn' dog bit my nose. We moved off the island in July of '87. So yes Sallie is totally right. That wrinkle old prune (not insulting the old. This guy just aged BADLY!)