howmidoing Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> .
>
>
> NICKELANDDIMED: Are you serious, that you are
> scared and careful about what you post on here?
> That makes me a little nervous. I want to be free
> to talk here.... I'm open to PM messages and happy
> to talk to anyone that wants an outlet.


howmidoing, loyalty ran very strong in the LW. Especially among ministries. It can run strong here. Causing posters to judge. Come down hard on other posters. That can be hurtful. Rekindle old wounds. I am reading the old posts. When you speak of loss of innocence, I recalled posts by poliscigrad on page 155 about his daughter. The COL. Feel free to talk about what you are comfortable talking about. You have my support.

howamidoing, please correct me if I am mistaken, but are you talking about abuse in the COL? Have you read tmason's posts in which he's been recalling abuse from many years ago. Also a few years ago, filthy apron, posted here about "inappropriate situations." I am not qualified at all to weigh in, but I do know there is strength in numbers, and all of you have my non judgmental support too.

I have not been on this forum in quite some time... I see new posters, old posters... and still, the common thread is the abuse that we ALL suffered and continue to suffer. When I left, it was quiet, as I had moved away... In the beginning, I stayed connected with a handful (I was part of the "inner circle" so to say). Oh, and let me clarify that there are "many" inner circles, i.e. local church level, TLW, CLW, etc... I would say that from my experience in this demonic mind controlling, life taking, family destroying group; the circle that so many sheep wanted to be in was that of JRS and then of course G & M.

Regardless, I do believe that the damage is mostly the same. I thought that I was good at first, as I had, for the most part, questioned so much about the teachings, actions, control,... so when I actually left, I felt justified in my mind (and I was), I talked with family members who were on board with me, including my Mother; who apologized for leading me into this mess as a young teen. My therapy was my talks with select family members, which was very healing. And then, things began to crumble... As a family member that was technically "still in" learned that I was no longer a part of the church... they were shocked and confrontational... asking me why? Eventually, this person, persuaded my Mother to take a trip to Shiloh, and my heart, mind... literally every part of me was left in shambles. How could my Mother do this? Honestly, I do not ever remember feeling / experiencing so much despair as I did at that point. PTSD became a normality for me...

It has been just about 2 years since my Mother shocked me with going to Shiloh, which was a major brain _ _ _ _!!! I am still struggling, and while I have been attending a Christian church for a number of years now, which I love, this hold on my mind still resonates... PTSD continues at times... I have talked to others about my 30 years of being in a cult, however the truth is, unless one has experienced what those of us have, they can empathize, but they cannot relate, they cannot be a voice of help because they do not understand the dynamics of cult control. Some people have even said to me, "People in cults must be very weak minded". LOL... they just do not get it! I told them to watch the Leah Remini documentary about Scientology... this show speaks volumes about the control of cult like establishments.

My family was destroyed to a degree over this (in and out of the cult)... and all I want now is healing. All I want is my family restored... my blood family! TLW / CLW was my "family", or shall I say, "surrogate family" for far too long. God gave me a wonderful family, and I replaced them with a group that abused my mind and controlled me in any way they could and when I left, they spit me out like spoiled food. This being said, I do want to acknowledge all of the amazing people that are in the church, who truly believe with all their heart... their dedication and love is unsurpassed. I pray that their eyes are opened to the truth!

I am sickened and saddened to see what Gary is doing. I pray that he repents, as I do and continue to do, as we are all accountable to our Lord. After all, he made all of us in his image, to be like him... and being like him, is our choice. I guess I have a long way to go...LOL.

May you "we" all be blessed in our journey today...

Light, I can certainly relate to what you went through. I, too, had many decades in. My own family was busted up by the doctrine of the "unequal yoke". This is a family that is ruined forever. Some members in the cutl, some members outside the cult. At family gatherings there are topics simply not talked about. A state of detente exists. But the family is dysfunctional.

You are correct. Most mental health care professionals have little experience with us. Our wounds are deep and unusual. I hope we all have found help.

You mention PTSD. I am interested in what the symptoms are for post-LW PTSD. Maybe we should list them.

For me, it is a fear and reaction to being directed by anyone.

Another is a loss of confidence in making my own decisions.

And a general feeling that I have fallen out of the graces of God. And am headed for hell.

I relate to your posts light777 and puddington. My mom was in the church for a short while. Dad made her leave. Never got to thank him for that.


puddington Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> You mention PTSD. I am interested in what the
> symptoms are for post-LW PTSD. Maybe we should
> list them.
>
> For me, it is a fear and reaction to being
> directed by anyone.
>
> Another is a loss of confidence in making my own
> decisions.
>
> And a general feeling that I have fallen out of
> the graces of God. And am headed for hell.


For me one is, shunning/isolation. How Cruel! One boss had me work at a location away from the co-workers. Office space shortage. Started reliving old painful memories. Then, co-worker said I was lucky. No boss breathing down my neck. There was autonomy which I slowly eased into.

Thanks for sharing this light777. May your family be restored.


light777 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have not been on this forum in quite some
> time... I see new posters, old posters... and
> still, the common thread is the abuse that we ALL
> suffered and continue to suffer. When I left, it
> was quiet, as I had moved away... In the
> beginning, I stayed connected with a handful (I
> was part of the "inner circle" so to say). Oh, and
> let me clarify that there are "many" inner
> circles, i.e. local church level, TLW, CLW, etc...
> I would say that from my experience in this
> demonic mind controlling, life taking, family
> destroying group; the circle that so many sheep
> wanted to be in was that of JRS and then of course
> G & M.
>
> Regardless, I do believe that the damage is mostly
> the same. I thought that I was good at first, as
> I had, for the most part, questioned so much about
> the teachings, actions, control,... so when I
> actually left, I felt justified in my mind (and I
> was), I talked with family members who were on
> board with me, including my Mother; who apologized
> for leading me into this mess as a young teen. My
> therapy was my talks with select family members,
> which was very healing. And then, things began to
> crumble... As a family member that was technically
> "still in" learned that I was no longer a part of
> the church... they were shocked and
> confrontational... asking me why? Eventually,
> this person, persuaded my Mother to take a trip to
> Shiloh, and my heart, mind... literally every part
> of me was left in shambles. How could my Mother
> do this? Honestly, I do not ever remember feeling
> / experiencing so much despair as I did at that
> point. PTSD became a normality for me...
>
> It has been just about 2 years since my Mother
> shocked me with going to Shiloh, which was a major
> brain _ _ _ _!!! I am still struggling, and while
> I have been attending a Christian church for a
> number of years now, which I love, this hold on my
> mind still resonates... PTSD continues at times...
> I have talked to others about my 30 years of being
> in a cult, however the truth is, unless one has
> experienced what those of us have, they can
> empathize, but they cannot relate, they cannot be
> a voice of help because they do not understand the
> dynamics of cult control. Some people have even
> said to me, "People in cults must be very weak
> minded". LOL... they just do not get it! I told
> them to watch the Leah Remini documentary about
> Scientology... this show speaks volumes about the
> control of cult like establishments.
>
> My family was destroyed to a degree over this (in
> and out of the cult)... and all I want now is
> healing. All I want is my family restored... my
> blood family! TLW / CLW was my "family", or shall
> I say, "surrogate family" for far too long. God
> gave me a wonderful family, and I replaced them
> with a group that abused my mind and controlled me
> in any way they could and when I left, they spit
> me out like spoiled food. This being said, I do
> want to acknowledge all of the amazing people that
> are in the church, who truly believe with all
> their heart... their dedication and love is
> unsurpassed. I pray that their eyes are opened to
> the truth!
>
> I am sickened and saddened to see what Gary is
> doing. I pray that he repents, as I do and
> continue to do, as we are all accountable to our
> Lord. After all, he made all of us in his image,
> to be like him... and being like him, is our
> choice. I guess I have a long way to go...LOL.
>
> May you "we" all be blessed in our journey
> today...

Hello All,

The WALK, CLW, TLW - Does the chameleon, really change colors?

This is a most interesting thread with some meaningful conversations.
I have "Ben" THare" and experienced most of it. I held the TLW idiosyncratic beliefs for about a decade. Then, I became a 'BenT''Hare',looking for a way out.

Many years have passed for me since the TLW insanity. I have had a chance to heal, recover, and refocus my life. Time has helped my perspective. I have also benefited from the assistance of a very close friend. We battled OUT together. My turning point came after a lengthy discussion with William "dad" Stevens. He provided another needed perspective for me, and allowed me to see past the smoke and mirrors. (I am not sure that he ever knew how that conversation helped me) I knew at that moment, that my journey was about to take a turn. I had to take the fork in the road. It was my time. I had also benefitted from several conversations with Francis Frangipane. He understood my plight. My plan to exit was met with a lot of resistance, and of course, my name went on a blacklist. I was marked. But that, turned out to be the boost I needed.

[*] I had finally admitted and recognized the abuse that I was in
[*] I had pondered long and deep about my condition and knew it was not getting better
[*] I had developed my plan to leave enough times in my mind that I knew it would work
[*] I executed my plan to leave
[*] I found a safe haven, almost a halfway house to make the transition
[*] I was prepared for the attempts to get me back and recriminate me
[*] I relied on my convictions and beliefs, even from my 4 yr old experience
[*] I sought help and meaning along the way and remained determined

What followed, was years of doubt, rejection, confusion, and PAIN. Raw PAIN. I had left everything that I believed to be sacred. I had invested everything that I had into the WALK. I was without resource to leave but knew that I need to get out. It was in many ways, starting over. I am fortunate is some ways. I did make it out. Still healing, but out.

I knew a few others that had left TLW movement. After conversations with them, over several years, I finally got the courage to call TLW a 'cult'. I knew it, but just could not say it. Weird how conditioning works. It felt strange at first, almost like I had betrayed a friend. I still find remnants of thought and terminology popping out from those days. What I observed in others was what I also found in myself. There was a need to become re-oriented, re-tuned, and balanced.

I was raised a Christian. I accepted Christ at age 4. I detest the term "Christian", always have, but it conveys my background adequately for discussion here. I am very much a believer in Christ, even today. In my WALK/TLW experience, I believed I was following Christ. Eventually, I saw how HE had been substituted by others and other things. Most of the replacements have been discussed here on this forum. At that moment, I was truly lost. What had I done? It became clear to me, that I had to find my way back to Christ. Ironically, the TLW provided no true assistance. The bad fruit, and lack of good fruit - was evidence enough, that I was in the wrong place.

As I work out a path for the rest of my life, I find reflection a necessary element. The words of JESUS CHRIST provide my best guidance, they always have.

I am sure that several of you have crossed the path of my life before this forum. I was in 3 different local churches and had an extended stay at Shiloh. While we may have taken alternate pathways, we come here to reflect and possibly encourage.
I may find myself here amongst others with (possibly), differing viewpoints. That is not important to me. What I really found, is a place of commons. I am grateful for the forum and Rick Ross for hosting it.

To each of you, I salute you in YOUR journey to make sense of the experiences and the balance of your journeys.

BenTHare, now a little more AWare

Thank you BTH. This forum is getting down to brass tacks and I think you have the beginning of a LW 12 step recovery program.
[*] I had finally admitted and recognized the abuse that I was in
[*] I had pondered long and deep about my condition and knew it was not getting better
[*] I had developed my plan to leave enough times in my mind that I knew it would work
[*] I executed my plan to leave
[*] I found a safe haven, almost a halfway house to make the transition
[*] I was prepared for the attempts to get me back and recriminate me
[*] I relied on my convictions and beliefs, even from my 4 yr old experience
[*] I sought help and meaning along the way and remained determined

For me my exit was sudden, unexpected, and took less than a second for my eyes to open wide--then all the red flags that had been waving came home to roost--all those years--realizing my mind and life had been hijacked when I was so very young. I don't know why there are people who have the need to control the lives of others to their own benefit but it is sickening.

Leah Remini's documentary--I hope--is opening eyes. There needs to be education for our young--it was just too damn easy to be fooled. I think we should start a commission of sorts--just for that purpose. The thought that charlatans and narcissists can do this with such ease is is disturbing. It isn't that just some are gullible--we are all gullible and Facebook proves that. But to know how to step back and evaluate with a set of reality checks -- I scarce think the LW would have lasted as long--and G and M would not have been able to trick so many people. It is criminal--it is just evil--evil.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/23/2017 12:24AM by Cloudwatcher.

light777 welcome back and welcome BenTHare. I found your posts and perspectives so meaningful.

Hope to hear more from both of you again.

I made a plan when I left. There was no courage or strength on my part. I just did it.

My hope for everyone is ALL the families can one day be reunited and healed. Yes, as Cloudwatcher said a Grand AHAA moment.

The recent discussion on therapy is important. For some the recovery and healing can be more complicated than for others. But has BTH and Cloudwatcher pointed out, education is part of the recovery too and can turn on that light bulb.

NickleandDimed Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I relate to your posts light777 and puddington. My
> mom was in the church for a short while. Dad made
> her leave. Never got to thank him for that.
>
>
> puddington Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> >
> > You mention PTSD. I am interested in what the
> > symptoms are for post-LW PTSD. Maybe we should
> > list them.
> >
> > For me, it is a fear and reaction to being
> > directed by anyone.
> >
> > Another is a loss of confidence in making my
> own
> > decisions.
> >
> > And a general feeling that I have fallen out of
> > the graces of God. And am headed for hell. (Don't try on the gasoline soaked underwear.) lol
>
>
> For me one is, shunning/isolation. How Cruel! One
> boss had me work at a location away from the
> co-workers. Office space shortage. Started
> reliving old painful memories. Then, co-worker
> said I was lucky. No boss breathing down my neck.
> There was autonomy which I slowly eased into.


Years before JRS and M married, through M, I ask JRS for help on a personal matter. As it turned out, he used the personal information I provided him to cross me. I saw that he was doing the same to some of the ministries, but I later felt that I was one of the first little people cross you out guinea pigs. Of course we all know he taught G&M to do the same. Because what seemed to me was a violation of trust by the bhagwan, I struggle with ministry trust issues. And some times I beat myself up for having been so stupid to have shared any personal information with that man. And if I hadn't shared that personal information with him, my life would have been different. It's been big PTSD just push those thoughts out of your mind thing.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/23/2017 02:47AM by lily rose.