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lily rose
Ben if you care to comment, I 'd be interested to know what dad Stevens or even Francis told you. I read on this forum that dad Stevens and JRS had a falling out towards the end. Everyone loved dad Stevens.

Dad Stevens was on the outs with his son, at the time of our conversation. I had hoped he would give me some insight. He did. He was apparently trying to show John some of the errors in the Walk and was shunned for doing so. He conveyed this to me.
Dad Stevens was cordial, patient to listen, slow to speak, but direct with me. I asked him to narrate the story of John's life. I shared my concerns and I told him how I was struggling with everything, especially with what was happening at Shiloh. I also asked him to tell me where all of 'this' went wrong. In his own words, he did just that. We spent a whole afternoon together. I appreciate the time he took with me. He told stories of how the Lord had been present in John's young life. He referred to those as blessed years. He never identified the day that things took a wrong turn but I got the impression that it was sometime in his adult life. He did talk about his family and how most of them had been pushed out of John's life. Dad Stevens was not shy about saying that things were really off in the Walk. He did use euphemisms in his conversation, but things were definitely not right. His criticism was tempered with optimism and faith. He asked me to pray for John and all the people that surrounded him. He knew that the corp was driving things sideways and people were getting hurt. He was candid about Martha, Fred B., and others that he was close to, but always upbeat about the Lord. We prayed together at the beginning of our meeting and we ended with prayer. He took every question that I had with grace and answered them in a most direct manner. He directed me to pray and seek God's face for all my answers.

F.Frangipane was really focused on seeking the face of the Father. His words were encouraging and filled with faith. He also knew things were off and was trying to bring this message to those that would listen. I honestly believe that he tried to correct some of the brethren. He was shunned and blacklisted, especially at Shiloh. Frances words were always filled with scripture. He quoted Christ often.

Both men were gentle with their words but direct and honest. I needed those conversations. I saw that they were suffering also. It actually gave me strength to know that I was not alone. I also knew that my exit was to come very soon. I felt trapped but they gave me hope.

larry bobo Wrote:
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> I sure appreciate the new posters, as well as
> those who have recently posted after taking a
> break for a while. Everyone sharing their story
> is certainly helpful to others. I spent a couple
> of years with a shrink trying to sort through
> things and perhaps the most important thing I
> learned from that period was that I was not nuts.
> Even though I was clinically depressed, it was
> comforting to know that my reactions to what I had
> lived through were normal. PTSD is quite real.
> It took me about ten years to get over the vivid
> nightmares of bloody sword fights, and even longer
> before my wife could wake me up without me
> attacking her - thinking I was fighting for my
> life. Even the dog was not safe to wake me, as
> the hole in the bedroom wall about 10 feet away
> proved – and he was 65 lbs.
>
> It has been about 18 years since I left TLWF and I
> no longer have any of those symptoms. Sleep is
> sweet and peaceful. I know for a fact the madness
> can end. Perhaps time does heal, but I’m not so
> convinced. I’ve communicated with many -
> you’ve seen some of their posts - and the wounds
> are as though they happened yesterday – and it
> was 30 years ago. Just a normal compassionate
> person without God would not want this to happen
> to anyone. It’s hard to imagine how leaders can
> continue to spiritually abuse their followers and
> not care about the damage that is being done. It
> would seem that you would have to be incredibly
> self-centered to feel nothing.
>
> In addition to therapy, I read every book even
> remotely related to cults and mind control I could
> get my hands on. It was helpful to learn about
> control techniques that were identical in many
> groups, not just Christian, and realize it had
> been taking place in TLWF. Although interesting,
> it didn’t fix me on the inside. The real
> healing started when I went back to the words of
> Jesus – the very thing I thought caused all this
> mess – and started putting them into practice.
> What I began to discover was the Jesus in the New
> Testament and the Jesus in TLWF were not the same.
> It was like starting all over. The Jesus in the
> New Testament wanted to serve, not be served. He
> was willing to lay down his life for his enemies,
> not prophesy judgement on them. He was concerned
> how the least were being treated, not the
> greatest. He wasn’t just a little different –
> He was the exact opposite. There was good reason
> for thinking “Christ in the Flesh” was messed
> up – he was! Taking a good honest look at the
> red letters gives you a completely different lens
> than the “revelation teaching” of TLWF.
>
> It is an eye opener when you begin to realize that
> the still small voice within you can be trained to
> deceive you. There are terrorists that honestly
> believe they are following God by becoming suicide
> bombers. For a season, I set aside my own
> thinking (I know – red flag!) as well as the
> teaching of others - I didn't trust either one -
> and just focused on the words of Jesus. He had
> earned my trust over a lifetime. Others had
> twisted his words to serve their own ends, but I
> had never found what he actually said to be false.
> He said I had one teacher and it was him. I just
> accepted that at face value. Whatever he said
> that I put into practice – not just studied –
> started healing me from the inside out. It
> started with being willing to forgive –
> including myself. Honestly, it was a supernatural
> miracle. I started caring for people that had
> been completely off my radar.
>
> The following words of Jesus are so applicable to
> those of us who have been wounded by TLWF: “When
> he came to his senses, he said, ‘How many of my
> father’s hired men have food to spare, and here
> I am starving to death! I will set out and go
> back to my father and say to him: Father, I have
> sinned against heaven and against you. I am no
> longer worthy to be called your son; make me like
> one of your hired men.’ So he got up and went
> to his father. But while he was still a long way
> off, his father saw him and was filled with
> compassion for him; he ran to his son, threw his
> arms around him and kissed. The son said to him,
> ‘Father, I have sinned against heaven and
> against you. I am no longer worthy to be called
> your son.’ But the father said to his servants,
> ‘Quick! Bring the best robe and put it on him.
> Put a ring on his finger and sandals on his feet.
> Bring the fattened calf and kill it. Let’s have
> a feast and celebrate. For this son of mine was
> dead and is alive again; he was lost and is
> found.”
>
> The real Father is nothing at all like the earthly
> men we have called father – even though Jesus
> told us not to. There is no shame in recognizing
> that we missed the mark when it came to knowing
> him. None of us have ever been worthy. He
> doesn’t love us because we are good, but because
> He is good. He can resurrect a relationship with
> us that we thought was completely dead and beyond
> hope – only this time it will bring healing and
> life instead of wounds. This is the real living
> word.


With all due respect, Larry, I (and perhaps others on this forum) no longer feel that the words of Jesus and our Heavenly Father are the single answer to all of life's questions. I have found wisdom and comfort in other traditions as well. Back in the day, my dear friend, Ray Bennett, was very troubled by the direction TLW was going in and sought to have a personal discussion with Bro. Stevens about his concerns. (Yes, we used to call him Bro. Stevens before it was declared that all of us little people could call him (gasp) "John.") Naturally, the Apostolic Company closed ranks around JRS and would not let Ray anywhere near him. They (the AC) didn't allow anyone near JRS who might question anything he had to say. That said, Ray taught me many years ago to search for truth. I've always kept that in mind, especially as I moved away from the cult and its brainwashing and tried to move on with my life. Buddhism is a tradition that resonates with me. No, I am not a practicing Buddhist and have not embraced everything that Buddhism teaches. I do know that the more I learn to treat myself with loving kindness and compassion, the more I am able to treat others in the same way. Mindfulness meditation has been a help to me too although I had to distinguish meditation from praying and waiting on the Lord. (Old habits die hard!) There may be others on this forum who have explored other traditions that I haven't. My point in saying any of this is simply that while belief in the teachings of Jesus and Christianity in general remain vitally important to those who believe in that tradition, there are other belief systems and traditions that are equally important.

larry bobo Wrote:
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> lily rose – We tend to think forgiveness is
> about the other person, when in fact we are the
> ones who are set free. It opens the door for God
> to be active in the other person’s life as well
> – and He is far more merciful than we would be.
> The prayers of a right spirit are very powerful.
> He can help them in ways we don’t even have the
> ability to understand. He is a good God who
> causes the rain to fall on the evil and the
> righteous – we are the ones who would rather
> kill, steal and destroy when our old nature has
> free reign. When you start to love people you
> used to hate, you, of all people, will know that
> God’s Spirit is at work in your heart. Also, a
> word of caution, we will be forgiven the way we
> forgive others. When we have been forgiven a huge
> debt, we need to be faithful to forgive the small
> debt others owe us. Forgive, and then trust God
> to sort it all out – “Vengeance is mine, I
> will repay.” He’s way better at it than we
> are.
>
Like the link on psychological reasons to forgive. Makes sense. Reconciliation not required. The LW had multiple spiritual abusers. Some low on the food chain. Some higher up. Big fish. Harder to forgive big fish. And mean it. Easier. God forgives big fish. Give it to God.

NickleandDimed Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> kBOY Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > REPACKAGED FOR A NEW UNSUSPECTING
> > GENERATION:
> >
> > - - - - -
> >
> > "Fulfill The Original Vision Of The School
> Of
> > Prophets"
> >
> > March 25, 2017 — Saturday — by Gary
> Hargrave
> >
> [www.garyandmarilynhargrave.com]
>
> >
> ill-the-original-vision-of-the-school-of-prophets/
>
> >
> Last night I brought a message titled, “Fulfill
> The Original Vision For The School Of Prophets”
> at Monte Sião, Niterói, Brazil.
>
> Our founder John Robert Stevens envisioned a
> generation (the third generation whose time has
> past) who would have the ability to see
> (judge) and move in the realm of spirit
> (blame demons). He changed everything
> about his life and ministry (for more
> control) in order to focus on learning the
> spirit realm (white magic) and imparting
> this knowledge (white magic) to others.
> John functioned in the world of spirit,
> (blaming demons) and he believed to create
> a school of prophets who could move in the realm
> of spirit (blaming demons) and function as
> he did (blaming demons). The school of
> prophets must have this ability, (blame
> demons) for only in the realm of spirit can we
> (the little remnant) bind and loose
> (kick it up a notch) and
> bring the Kingdom of heaven to earth. In order to
> do this, (grab the power) the realm of
> spirit must not be hidden from us.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

"The school of prophets must have this ability, for only in the realm of the spirit can we bind and loose and bring the Kingdom of heaven to earth."

Gary, such hubris. Even God's people the Jews, who had the prophets and fully anticipated the Kingdom, couldn't pull it off because like the LW they believed it all depended on them.

Larry Bobo wrote: PTSD is quite real. It took me about ten years to get over the vivid nightmares of bloody sword fights, and even longer before my wife could wake me up without me attacking her - thinking I was fighting for my life. Even the dog was not safe to wake me, as the hole in the bedroom wall about 10 feet away proved – and he was 65 lbs.

When I first read this I sort of quickly scanned over it because Larry's posts are usually fairly lengthy and something needs to catch my eye to generate enough interest to read each word more carefully. I had the same general reaction to it as Lampshmamp. Upon re-reading, I was relieved to discover that Larry had sought therapy for his PTSD and that many years have passed since he experienced these types of dreams.

When someone is experiencing dreams that are traumatic to the point of acting out in sleep, assaulting whomever is next to you in bed, harming helpless animals, and so on, it is of paramount importance for their partner to make them aware of what is taking place and urge them to seek professional help. There are a number of techniques that can produce very positive results, and I am relieved for Larry and for the sake of his wife and pet that he sought help and found relief.

I hope people will take to heart that it is OK to seek professional help when a need presents itself. Many times in highly dogmatic organizations like TLW, those who are suffering get caught in the trap of believing that Jesus will heal them, thus walk through life suffering needlessly when help is available.

Thanks BenTHare for sharing about Dad Stevens and Francis!!

Slandjt when I first came to the forum I think I thought that if those forced out of the LW turned away from Christ, then the LW won. I have since changed my thinking. I know there are some on the forum who think that not one will be lost and I respect that. But for each person, IMO it's a personal decision that should be respected. Having said that, Larry Bobo's skill at pointing out the LW twisted scriptures about Jesus, has helped me.

pbxguy good point. I wonder if some of Brother Stevens negative thinking about psychology left a residue on some members. Just as Jesus doesn't always heal all physical infirmities, HE doesn't heal all mental health infirmities, all relationships, all marriages, all financial issues etc. HE's not a genie in a bottle. It's great if HE does, and HE can help you get through it. I agree with you that therapy can sometimes relieve suffering. I've seen it in my family.

I went to a psychologist because I was having such subconscious chaos. I should clarify again that none of this was happening while I was awake and it was certainly out of character for me. I seriously questioned my sanity. My wife just learned to yell at me from across the room if she wanted to wake me – it just was a joke between the two of us. My reaction was very similar to someone who had been in combat fighting for their life. I’ve mentioned this before, but perhaps with a little more information you can better connect the dots. My psychologist said my reaction was a normal response for what I had been through with TLWF. Depending how deep the mind control goes, unraveling the mess plays out differently for different people. I was a very deep believer in TLWF.

I realize the teachings of Jesus may be a sore spot for some – and I do understand to some degree. I also recognize that everyone’s spiritual journey is unique – some no longer even think they have a spirit. My criteria for choosing a psychologist was that they could not be a Christian and they had to have experience with cults. I wanted absolutely nothing to do with Christianity – and my father was an ordained pastor prior to our involvement in TLWF. I might also add, the only real value I received for my $15,000 was to learn from a professional that I was not nuts. He didn’t fix anything. Although my symptoms lessened, they still continued for another 10 years or so.

I’d been around church – and I mean a lot of church – my whole life, and I never experienced anything so profoundly healing as actually doing what Jesus said to do. It went down into subconscious levels that nothing else came close to. You’d think somebody would have least mentioned we might try doing what Jesus said, since Christianity was named after him! Jesus’ teaching always seemed to be twisted to serve a personal agenda – often times ending up with something that was the exact opposite. e.g. "the upward flow"

I think an important point to recognize is that TLWF is no more a Christian group (or the Religious Right for that matter) than to say the Pharisees were representing God in Jesus’ time. They are very different and they exhibit very different fruit. My encouragement has always been to go back to the teachings of Jesus, without any human input, and experiment a little and just see if it is true. There is much more there than just a doctrinal belief system – it contains a supernatural quality that works 100% of the time. He’s a big God and I think he loves that we have questions – unlike the response Ray and others, including myself, received from questioning APCO.

Quote
Larry Bobo
I’d been around church – and I mean a lot of church – my whole life, and I never experienced anything so profoundly healing as actually doing what Jesus said to do. It went down into subconscious levels that nothing else came close to. You’d think somebody would have least mentioned we might try doing what Jesus said, since Christianity was named after him! Jesus’ teaching always seemed to be twisted to serve a personal agenda – often times ending up with something that was the exact opposite. e.g. "the upward flow"

This has been my experience, as well. It took some time to get here, but is the therapy that is most helpful and meaningful.

I came into the walk thinking that I had found a more exciting walk with God. I was vulnerable. I was disappointed with my church experiences and ready for something better. Ultimately, I found myself sinking deeper into my own dark humanity. The walk experience did not liberate me at all. I was being imprisoned. The words from John, sounded liberating, but they turned out to be the exact opposite. I was hooked, like an addict.

After finding my way out, I could not fit into any church. I immersed myself in the business world and some other 'isms, mostly as a distraction. It did not fix the nightmares and anxiety I felt, but it consumed the emptiness to a point. Nothing was repairing the damage, but I knew that I could not go back. In a weak moment, I did try to go back. Fortunately, I was shunned.

Things are much better now for me, but my journey continues. Candidly, I tell you all, that the healing is still a work in progress.

What TLWF calls moving in the realm of spirit is nothing more than placing yourself in a suggestive state to facilitate mind control and opening the door for demonic oppression. There are no demonic forces being controlled as advertised, only blind followers. When the bubble of the imaginary spirit world pops, you are left with nothing. Even relationships that are decades old evaporate if you resist the control. Just ask anyone who has left. If the kingdom is relationships, there never was a kingdom of real substance – you are discarded as soon as you are no longer useful to the leadership or hinder their control of others.

Maybe a quick review of Old and New Testament scriptures of what God has to say about dabbling in the occult would be helpful. He wasn’t trying to ruin our fun – He was trying to save us from a lot of unnecessary suffering. For those who feel they would like to impact evil spirits - if that is your thing - try obedience. At least it works for a change. The whole ”Dominion Now” theology is rooted in inflated human egos, not the teachings of Jesus.

The “spiritual warfare” we experienced in TLWF - that produced only dust in the wind - was the result of opening the door to stuff we should have never opened the door to. Try to think of any good fruit that has come from dabbling in the spirit realm for the past 60 years. Compare that with the trashed lives. The only new realm TLWF is breaking into is new levels of control of their followers – when they should be trying to set people free. The real spirit realm is accessed through obedience to Jesus’ commands, not some new age techniques peddled by thieves and robbers who want to come in another way.

larry bobo Wrote:
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> ...
> Even relationships that are decades old evaporate
> if you resist the control. Just ask anyone who
> has left. If the kingdom is relationships, there
> never was a kingdom of real substance – you are
> discarded as soon as you are no longer useful to
> the leadership or hinder their control of others.
> ...
>

I recall how my shepherds used to tell me "you are family. Nothing you can do will change that. We will always love you, no matter how much you screw up or fail."

But then I started having doubts and questioning things. Wham-bam, I was out of the family and being shunned. What kind of family does that? If the "Kingdom is Relationships", I'll pass. That's not a family I wish to be a part of. The Living Word is a blatant testament of pure conditional love.