Re: Has Anyone Ever Heard of Radiant Life Church in Sacramento
Date: October 24, 2008 12:45AM

Thank you, prayforthem, for having the courage to talk with Tony and for personifying this forum! There have been some pretty amazing and productive posts lately. All of you are providing compassion and perspective needed to understand this mess. So much love and empathy! What if Tony is not capable of empathy? Can we expect him to sincerely express love and compassion? Please go to: [en.wikipedia.org] ...It might explain EVERYTHING! Here’s just a smidgen of what I suspect we're dealing with - from Wikipedia:

"To the extent that people are pathologically narcissistic, they can be controlling, blaming, self-absorbed, intolerant of others’ views, unaware of others' needs and of the effects of their behavior on others, and insistent that others see them as they wish to be seen [4]. They may also demand certain behavior from their children because they see the children as extensions of themselves, and need the children to represent them in the world in ways that meet the parents’ emotional needs [7]. (For example, a narcissistic father who was a lawyer demanded that his son, who had always been treated as the "favorite" in the family, enter the legal profession as well. When the son chose another career, the father rejected and disparaged him.)"

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Re: Has Anyone Ever Heard of Radiant Life Church in Sacramento
Posted by: Escapee07 ()
Date: October 24, 2008 12:47AM

Quote
Won't Be Dogmatized
Thank you, prayforthem, for having the courage to talk with Tony and for personifying this forum! There have been some pretty amazing and productive posts lately. All of you are providing compassion and perspective needed to understand this mess. So much love and empathy! What if Tony is not capable of empathy? Can we expect him to sincerely express love and compassion? Please go to: [en.wikipedia.org] ...It might explain EVERYTHING! Here’s just a smidgen of what I suspect we're dealing with - from Wikipedia:

"To the extent that people are pathologically narcissistic, they can be controlling, blaming, self-absorbed, intolerant of others’ views, unaware of others' needs and of the effects of their behavior on others, and insistent that others see them as they wish to be seen [4]. They may also demand certain behavior from their children because they see the children as extensions of themselves, and need the children to represent them in the world in ways that meet the parents’ emotional needs [7]. (For example, a narcissistic father who was a lawyer demanded that his son, who had always been treated as the "favorite" in the family, enter the legal profession as well. When the son chose another career, the father rejected and disparaged him.)"


I kid you not I was just reading this in wikipedia not 5 minutes ago...

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Re: Has Anyone Ever Heard of Radiant Life Church in Sacramento
Posted by: Escapee07 ()
Date: October 24, 2008 12:59AM

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Worship_Big
The RLC superliner has hit an iceburg and the ship is rapidly sinking, The captain seems to be in denial and is looking for someone else to blame, The Elders and Staff are dancing in the ballroom while the band continues to play...all the while the ice, cold water is filling up the ship ever so swiftly and the lifeboats are filling up so fast people are not waiting to jump ship...

After walking through the presidential like security check sign in tables and being greeted by elders; the shepherd all but dared all those in attendance at the so called "business meeting" to leave! All those who had stated they were waiting to see what action was going to be taken that night to decide if they were going to leave or not. Then all of the elders joined the shepherd or should I say hired hand, on the platform to join in a show of solidarity and support... well, they have chosen and they have decided.

It is time to shake the dust off and journey away. My family will no doubt be villified, again, along with all of the others here or who have left and be forsaken and forgotten by them... so be it.

We will move on, we will live, we will love, we will grow, we will laugh, we will learn and with God's help we will all heal.

This post is excellent! I just wanted to say that even though they have chosen to continue in the way they are going, I will not stop interceding for the people at RLC. I will not stay quiet. I might decide not to post on this board at some point, but I will not stop warning people about the abuse that this church so unrepentantly inflicts.

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Re: Has Anyone Ever Heard of Radiant Life Church in Sacramento
Posted by: longtimer60 ()
Date: October 24, 2008 06:26AM

I want to expose one of the lies that was told at the Sunday meeting. It involves Tony Cunningham, and I it was such a STUPID and obvious lie that I am sure he is kicking himself in the rear, or actually, perhaps he doesn't even see it as he is so self-deceived. A gentleman stood up to basically say something in Tony's defense and against those who are on the forum or have been offended by Tony, although I am sure that, because this part of the meeting was probably not scripted nor rehearsed, Tony was not aware of what the guy was going to say. I will basically tell you what the guy’s remarks were in their entirety, then I will tell you where Tony interrupted and you will see why he would have faired better to have kept his mouth shut:

The gentleman said that as far as he could perceive, there has been some "Tony worshipping going on" and that these people really wanted to get in close and when they didn't get what they wanted they became disgruntled", to which many in the "rlc camp" affirmed with nods and hums.

Tony blew it when he interrupted the man immediately after the he mentioned "Tony worship", and, I am not joking, Tony looked like a deer in headlights, mouth agape, and said, with as much of a completely dumbfounded look on his face as he could muster, "I...have...no...idea....what....you....are....talking about", emphasizing those words with short pauses in between the words, like he had never, EVER, heard those two words put together in the same sentence and knew absolutely nothing about the concept, whether or not the exact words 'Tony worship' were ever used in reference to this concept, or that he has never, ever, noticed it or talked to anyone about the fact that some people worship him. Then, the guy finished the rest of his comment about the people wanting to get close, blah, blah, blah.

I was absolutely shocked that Tony would tell such a lie about something that is so obvious. It just shows the depths to which he will go to deny his part in anything, oh, except for his part in not stopping aberrant practices. Tony would have been better off had he interrupted the guy and agreed that he realized that Tony worship is a problem, or even "was" a problem and what he was doing to combat or to discourage it and set his congregants straight on this issue once and for all. Such a simple thing, but it sheds light on a much, much larger and more serious problem that this man has.

For anyone out there in the field of psychological testing, on the MMPI-2 assessment, Tony’s scores would more than likely show elevations in both the L and K (lie to make self look good) scales which would have invalidated and made suspect ALL of his other answers.

Now I know without a shadow of a doubt that Tony will lie to cover his own rear in order to stay in power and that his elders do the same because it has been modeled so for them, and in some twisted, sick way, they believe this is right. There is such a veil of darkness over their eyes and hearts, that they can't see even a smidgen of the truth when it hits them square in the face.

Tony needs to repent of this lie in front of the congregation, because he told the lie in front of the congregation.

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Re: Has Anyone Ever Heard of Radiant Life Church in Sacramento
Posted by: Escapee07 ()
Date: October 24, 2008 07:57AM

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Deja Vu
To all who are reading:

Can anyone with complete validity answer this question?

Q. Does anyone know why the message from last Sunday has not been posted on the RLC website yet? I know there were a lot of "blame shift" apologies and other things spoken on Sunday morning, but I am not sure why the whole message has not been posted. If you have the truth of it, please respond. Otherwise...Please keep your assumptions to yourself. I want to know the truth.

-Ryan-

FYI~ in case you hadn't yet found this Ryan, I believe that this sermon is the one from October 5 you just have to click download sermons....I heard apologies in about the 23 minute area.

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Re: Has Anyone Ever Heard of Radiant Life Church in Sacramento
Date: October 24, 2008 08:32AM

I am new to this web site.

I went to RLC. I no longer do.
I left because God said for me to leave over 5 years ago.
God warned me that something was going to happen in that church. I believed a great disception was coming.

"For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places." Ephesians 6:12

This is not a fight against the people of RLC. It is the devil who does these things.

One verse I really think of is
"But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of the bread and drink of the cup."

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Re: Has Anyone Ever Heard of Radiant Life Church in Sacramento
Posted by: whatajoke ()
Date: October 24, 2008 08:32AM

See post below. I inadvertently posted it twice.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/24/2008 08:33AM by whatajoke.

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Re: Has Anyone Ever Heard of Radiant Life Church in Sacramento
Posted by: whatajoke ()
Date: October 24, 2008 08:32AM

Quote
longtimer60
The gentleman said that as far as he could perceive, there has been some "Tony worshipping going on" and that these people really wanted to get in close and when they didn't get what they wanted they became disgruntled", to which many in the "rlc camp" affirmed with nods and hums.

I just wanted to emphatically say that whoever this gentleman was that made the above comment he couldn't be more wrong. It is ridiculous to play off the issue. There are not other churches that are meeting regarding pastor worship. The problem at Radiant Life is real. It being a topic at the elder meeting should be enough to know and see that it is going on. I hope this gentleman is reading thie forum.

To the gentleman who made the above comment at the meeting;

There was more than some Tony worshipping going on. In my observations I saw a prevalent attitude of Tony worship throughout all areas of the church with the most passionate ones being in leadership (including the elders) and SOMA. I left and I did not worship Tony. I did not become disgruntled because I did not get what I wanted. All I wanted was a healthy relationship with God. I left because of the Tony worship, the gross perversion of the gospel, the families I saw being torn apart by Tonys teaching regarding Spiritual Parenting, the overall immaturity of most people there, and the extreme sense of phoniness I saw in tony and everyone. I never aspired to get close to Tony. I am not unhappy because I am not close to him. I think your perception is very wrong and naive. I don't think you have fully considered the testimonies of how Tony pitted brother against brother. I don't think you ever fully analyzed why Tony would celebrate the giving away of a baby when the birth parents never intended to give the baby away at conception and had capacity to care for the child. What a selfish act. Has anyone ever thought of the child in that circumstance? The child will grow up one day knowing his parents gave him away and then went off the deep end for awhile afterwards. It is hard enough dealing with adoption when you are older when you know your parents were jacked up and couldn't care for you. In my time at Radiant Life I personally witnessed a 40 something woman constantly say she just wanted to sit at Tonys feet. These people I am talking about, the woman at Tonys feet, the children who left their parents to take on an illegitamte father, these people all still attend there. Tony has done nothing to reconcile these situations. Many of these kids go to SOMA or went to SOMA and honestly believe they are honoring God by turning their back on their parents. These are just some of the issues. Not some stupid high shool game that people wanted to be next to Tony and couldn't so they got pissed off. I believe you having that view and perception alone indicts Tony. Anyway, i will end this with a copy of what a SOMA student said about Tony. Everything he has said would indicate he wants to get next to Tony. However this student has not left because he was disgruntled. You have many left there including elders and leadership who are in the same boat. Longtimers testimony of Tony breaking in when he heard Tony worship shows just how defensive and guilty he is.


“It is impossible to mention all of Tony’s qualities because he is in constant transformation. … He loves everybody and takes care of us in ways we can’t even understand. … Tony is one of my heroes and somebody whom I want to follow wherever he goes. I want to learn more and more and adopt his way of life, because it is almost similar to what Jesus wants us to live.” (Memo Olivares)

to the gentleman: I would like to remind you that this was printed in Convergence. The whole church read it. I would bet with most of what I have that Tony read it and this went unchecked. Heck, the leadership that is involved in the printing of it were ignorant enough to put it in. I want to ask you does Tony take care of you? How does he take care of you? Is it in ways you can not understand? Do you want to follow Tony wherever he goes? How does your wife feel about that? Do you want to adopt his way of life or have you already bought a home on White Peacock? Is Tony's life so close to emulating Jesus' life that it is almost similar to what Jesus wants? I would tell you now that if you were doing what Jesus wants you would not be here or at an elders meeting sticking up for Tony. You would be looking after the brokenhearted, the poor, the abused. There are many people who stand up and sing at church on Sundays. There are also many people on street corners, jacked up from the floor up, that are going to beat these people to heavan. I would ask you to go back through all of the testimonies and read them carefully. Do your best to filter through some of the anger and bitterness expressed because of the pain. Filter through some of the rants and sarcasm and get to the substance of what people are saying. Talk to people. What you said in the elder meeting is a tragedy. It is a slap in the face to God and to those who have experienced Tonys lies and bs. Tony is playing childish, high school games with his people. This has been well documented in testimonies on here about some of the inner circle people and the stories of him pitting people against each other. I am glad it was not my daughter who came home and said that my ways are filthy rags and I am moving in with the Childs or Huths or whoever because they will be able to take me to a higher level in God. That is diminishing what God himself can do. Yes it is good to be led by responsible people in the faith who may have been in the faith longer. But it is not good to diminish the fact that God himself can spiritually parent you.

I challenge all of you at Radiant Life Church who have kids or people living with you that are not your children. I would tell you that in a majority of those situations there has been tension created in the family relationship. I challenge you to tell those children to go home and reconcile with their families. That in the long run there is nothing you can do for them that their families can not do better. Humble yourselves. That is where they belong. They do not belong with you because you think, and they think. that they will be better off for it. I have not seen the fruit in any of those relationships. If you really care about them push and ask questions why they are there and if you sense anything that indicates that their is tension with their own family, make it right and send them home, kick them out. The house on Rio Cavodo or whatever is a great example of a house full of strays. With all the praying and teaching going on there, I never heard of an attempt to preach the family and reconciliation. I know some of these people are still at it and continue to take in strays. SEND THEM HOME. TELL THEM YOU ARE WRONG FOR INTERFERING WITH THEIR GOD GIVEN PARENTS.

Sorry longtimer60 but your post moved me to speak again. I just wanted to end by saying that all of you that listened and hummed and nodded are just as bad and inconsiderate, hypocritical Christians.

God bless me and you .



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/24/2008 08:55AM by whatajoke.

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Re: Has Anyone Ever Heard of Radiant Life Church in Sacramento
Posted by: whatajoke ()
Date: October 24, 2008 10:56AM

To the gentleman that spoke out..............it is not about some stupid childish game that people wanted to rub elbows with the Grand Poobah and couldn't so they are mad. It is about Spiritual Abuse.

Characteristics of the abuser
The leaders of abusive systems share a common profile:
– A need to control
– An authoritative style
– A commanding personality
– An inability to tolerate criticism or dissension
– A tendency to surround themselves with a small, exclusive clique.

Often the leader is a selfstyled Bible expert whose subjective interpretations appeal to the members and reinforce the
leader’s “anointed” position. Rarely do these interpretations survive close scrutiny, but, even so, such criticism of their
teaching is perceived as persecution. Besides, given the choice, the membership invariably remains with the besieged leader, lest they risk having to face the reality that they were duped.

Abusive leaders are also quite secretive. Rarely are their financial affairs and family life subjected to the same scrutiny as those of their membership. The demands made on others are not made on self. Spiritually abusive leadership seems to flourish in environments with the following characteristics:
– Earnest seekers of truth
– A biblically diluted established church
– A society that seems to have lost its spiritual way.

In such cases, the resulting spiritual vacuum is filled by leadership that offers a sense of authority and a security not
found elsewhere. That strong sense of “belonging” makes the abuse tolerable. To lose that is to return to insecurity.

The need for vigilance
Christians, even in mainstream churches, need to be alert to the signs of spiritual abuse.
– Are their leaders open and accountable?
– Do they encourage critical thinking?
– Will they willingly consider new ideas and initiatives?
– Can they tolerate a diversity of opinion and interpretation?

Any hint of spiritual abuse needs to be addressed through all appropriate channels. In Matthew 18:15, Jesus outlines
the process for dealing with those who have wronged us. This involves confronting the abuser in increasingly more
public arenas until, as a last resort, the relationship is terminated.

If the local church leadership is part of the problem, most denominations have a grievance procedure that should be followed. (not Radiant Life) But if the leadership is not accountable to a higher authority, then the members need to question the rules and talk out and challenge as often as they can. If you feel there is no acceptable response, move away. Find a group that is healthy and focus on your own healing.

Abusive leadership maintains its power and privilege by breeding fear and guilt and rewarding loyalty. Dissension and exposure are what they fear most.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/24/2008 11:03AM by whatajoke.

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Re: Has Anyone Ever Heard of Radiant Life Church in Sacramento
Posted by: whatajoke ()
Date: October 24, 2008 11:28AM

When Church Hurts
by J. Lee Grady

Fifteen years ago my wife and I experienced a traumatic spiritual shakedown. The growing network of churches we had belonged to for more than 10 years began unraveling after the senior leaders were accused of authoritarianism. A once-thriving national ministry to university students was reduced to rubble in a few weeks--as pastors resigned, congregations closed and Christian friends stopped talking to one another. All of us felt the heartache caused by broken promises and unfulfilled dreams. The pain of seeing a ministry blown apart by human failure was too much for some people to bear. Many became bitter.

Some marriages fell apart because of the stress of the organization's breakup. A few of the most wounded people vowed to never again join any type of church. Some even rejected faith altogether.

It took me a year to recover from the shell shock. I vented my frustration to a few friends over coffee, stayed intimate with the Lord and read my Bible often--especially the psalms of David, which are brutally honest prayers written by a guy who experienced a lot more disappointment and heartache than you or I ever will.

Part of my healing also came when I got connected to a healthy church. I had to learn to trust again, even though a whiny voice in my head kept saying: "Just forget about church. They're all the same."

That's what the devil wanted me to believe because his strategy is to isolate people and sour them with cynicism. I resisted his onslaught and grew stronger. What was meant to take me out of the battle ended up making me a tougher warrior--and giving me compassion for my wounded commrades. (I say Amen all by myself)

Since my experience in 1989 I have met many injured Christians. Some were lured by Christian friends (or even home-group leaders) to participate in financial deals that ended up being illegal Ponzi schemes. Some were pulled into embarrassing religious deception--as in the case of the people who bought rural property in Arkansas in 1999 because their pastor predicted a Y2K disaster.

Others trusted a spiritual leader only to find out he was hiding sexual immorality. And others were simply browbeaten and manipulated by insecure, untested people who never should have been placed in church leadership.

There's no way to eliminate all risks of being hurt in church. Stuff happens. Even the apostle Paul had to deal with religious opportunists, abusive heretics and two-faced church splitters.

God is perfect, but He always uses flawed people to carry out His mission. However, there are a few key steps we can take to provide better safeguards and minimize church casualties:

1. Demand accountability. We live in a day of freelance Christianity. It seems anyone can slap a ministerial title on a business card and incorporate a nonprofit organization. Then--voila!--he opens a church in a hotel ballroom.

I'm not against people having such freedoms. Some of the best churches in the world started in hotels or strip malls. But would you blindly trust a doctor who opened a makeshift operating room in a shopping center after buying a bogus medical license from a diploma mill on the Internet?

The new church on the block may turn out to be a great place. But before you join, find out if the pastor is accountable to a denomination or reputable church network. God's ministers are not self-appointed, and spiritual authority can't be bought with a credit card. Yellow lights should begin flashing when you find out that any minister is a lone ranger.

2. Value character more than charisma. People join churches for many reasons. Some love the music. Others are stirred by the preaching. In charismatic circles we often judge a church by its "anointing level," which apparently is determined by measuring the volume of the pastor's sermon, then multiplying this by the number of times people fall on the floor at the altar.

We should expect the Holy Spirit's gifts to flow in church. But the biblical recipe for the anointing is not a haphazard mixture of shouting, emotional highs and spiritual quick fixes. It requires that church leaders walk in humility, integrity, marital faithfulness and theological soundness (see 1 Tim. 3:1-7). Any "anointing" without these ingredients is suspect.

3. Reset our priorities. The word love appears in the Bible more than 500 times. Love for God and others was the key theme of Jesus' sermons, and this is echoed in the epistles of Peter, Paul, James and John. Yet we seem to major on everything but the main thing!

For many people today, church is about (1) obtaining financial prosperity; (2) securing a personal "breakthrough"; and (3) finding the key to answered prayer. I'm amazed we don't end every service by singing four verses of "It's All About Me, Lord."

No wonder so many people are being hurt in a place where they should be healed and empowered to heal others. It's time to stop the flakiness and do church God's way.


This article is from the February 2005 issue of Charisma

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