timeforchange............... great post and I actually agree with everything you said about Brandon. I hope I did not make it sound like I wish the worst for him because I definatley do not. I believe he is a good man and riteous. I am pulling for him to come out of this doing greater and more meaningful things. If you are reading this Brandon, please know that I have sounded off about alot of things but am doing much better for it. I hold nothing against you and believe you did a brave and honorable thing in removing yourself from the RLC mess.

you people who are still there at RLc you need to stand up and demand an explanation from the Elders and staff!

I can't believe how Matt Warner got back stabbed at Tony's knod and a wink. Are you people going to gust sit back and let another man get screwed over like this?

who are the remaining Elders?
is Greg Skinner a voting elder? if so one of his favorit songs is "Hotel California" odd to think (you can check out any time you like but you can never leave)

People of Radiand Life you need to revolt against the demonic demons that are running this church.

Think of this where was Jesus when he first cast out a demon?
that's right a place of worship.

I have been pondering this for quite some time and it is something I would like to share. Please refer to the following:

Matthew 5: 21"You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, 'Do not murder, and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.' 22But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to his brother, 'Raca,' is answerable to the Sanhedrin. But anyone who says, 'You fool!' will be in danger of the fire of hell. 23"Therefore, if you are offering your gift at the altar and there remember that your brother has something against you, 24leave your gift there in front of the altar. First go and be reconciled to your brother; then come and offer your gift.

Angry: The Greek word is orgizo which means to be angry, enraged, to feel and express strong displeasure and hostility; this can range from petty human anger to the righteous anger of God toward sinful disobedience.

Judgement: The Greek word is krisis (human or divine), justice, the concept of determining the correctness of a matter; negatively, punishment, condemnation; - judgment, justice, condemned judge, judgments, accusation, be condemned, decisions, doom, make judgment, verdict.

At the risk of sounding 'preachy' I wanted to give you the biblical definitions of the above two words. First, we all have been accused of being angry and passing judgement. As you can see by the definitions above there is a righteous anger and judgement is good and right. I am not judging on criteria that I in turn will not follow. That is why I believe that this anger would be subject to judgment to make sure that is justified.

Now, Tony must know that there are many people who are angry. The common answers by elders and leaders are that the people who are speaking out are angry. If this is not coming from Tony than Mr. Cunningham has a leadership problem in that his staff is insubordinate. If it is coming from him than you have a bigger problem in leadership in that he is not walking in alignment with the scripture. How many times has he left his gifts at the altar and come and reconciled with any one of us?

So I ask you elders, are you going to continue to support a man's agenda or God's? How many more families will be ruined before you realize what is going on and do something about it? How many faithful followers of Jesus Christ will leave the church without any contact from anyone? Regarding this so called investigation, how many people were contacted? I didn't receive a phone call.

Some questions for the meeting tomorrow:

1. This new business of Tony's appears to be a non-profit organization. Whose 501c(3) is he using? Verify that it's not RLCs.
2. What are the salaries of the pastors and leaders? Don't buy into the 'privacy' excuse. Taxpayers are entitled to see the salaries of State workers and public officials; how much more should a non-profit be accountable to those who are tithing?
3. When was the last time the board of elders differed in their opinion with the pastor and how was it handled?
4. What is the process of selection for the elder board? Who makes the initial suggestion?

Finally- Galatians 6:7, "Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life. 9Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up. 10Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, especially to those who belong to the family of believers."

Karen

Will anyone be there to ask questions tomorrow?
If we showed up, would there be an opportunity for body parts to speak, or would we be dismissed and ushered out like the latest round of necessary casualties?
Would the ever so humble and wise, Mr. Huth give intimidating dirty looks or heavy sighs when someone is speaking? Would the other Elders?
Is this meeting even a legal church meeting? Are the current bylaws binding?
If reviewed, I am pretty sure that they were hurried into existence through shady business practices in order to shore up Tony's control of the Elders, staff and church body should just such a time as this arise...
What excuse are they giving you for a 15 year (+/-) Elder leaving the church so suddenly? Who is being "reccomended" to the congregation as a replacement for Mr Wanner... Joel A? Should Pastoral staff even be considered as Elders?
What would an independant financial audit of the church books find?

Matt W. and Brandon........ Know that you have been faithful to God and obedient to scripture. You have complied and lived out the scriptures below. You are likely the only ones that have the confidence and biblical knowledge to speak up.

Remaining Elders: You are remiss in your duties and it is a tragedy that you have been quick to discipline a brother that has spoken up. There is no secret society with Jesus. You guys are a joke.


Protecting the Flock: A major part of the New Testament elders' work is to protect the local church from false teachers. As Paul was leaving Asia Minor, he summons the elders of the church in Ephesus for a farewell exhortation. The essence of Paul's charge is this: guard the flock--wolves are coming:


And from Miletus he sent to Ephesus and called to him the elders of the church . . . . "Be on guard for yourselves and for all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood. I know that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock; and from among your own selves men will arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after them. Therefore be on the alert." (Acts 20:17,28-31a; italics added).


According to Paul's required qualifications for eldership, a prospective elder must have enough knowledge of the Bible to be able to refute false teachers:

For this reason I left you in Crete, that you might set in order what remains, and appoint elders in every city as I directed you, namely, if any man be above reproach . . . holding fast the faithful word which is in accordance with the teaching, that he may be able . . . to refute those who contradict [sound doctrine] (Titus 1:5,6a,9; italics added).


The Jerusalem elders, for example, met with the apostles to judge doctrinal error: "And the apostles and the elders came together to look into this [doctrinal] matter" (Acts 15:6). Like the apostles, the Jerusalem elders had to know the Word so that they could protect the flock from false teachers.

Apologies for another lengthy post but this is so Radiant Life. I hope the elders read this and realize what they have created and promoted with Tony. Yes elders you hold blame also.

ABERRATIONS IN AN ABUSIVE CHURCH

The following are some examples of what may take place IN ANY CHURCH where spiritual abuse and unbiblical authoritarianism may be present.

COARSE and CRUEL TREATMENT

Many leaders of abusive churches, usually behind closed doors, often treat people cruelly and abusively, even resorting to yelling and finger pointing. Past sins are recounted, unkind statements are made, and those being counseledare often castigated when they express disagreement with what is being said about them or others. Ones' questions or expressions of concern or doubt about church practices or about a leader are frequently viewed as the questioner's problem he or she is a "rebel", "proud", "arrogant", "hates authority", is "divisive.

Sinful treatment of church members however, does not occur behind closed doors all of the time. Most all members have personally observed individuals during public services, being disparaged or ridiculed from the pulpit or mentioned in sermons as ¡°points of application. Even when the individual's name is not mentioned, it is often abundantly clear who is being referenced.

POWER-POSTURING

Power-postruing is very characteristic in an abusive church system. Power-posturing simply means that leaders spend a lot of time focused on their authority and reminding others of it as well. This is necessary because their spiritual authority isnt real based on genuine godly character it is postured.

Recently, a young couple told of attending a church where the pastor insisted that members treat what he says as if Christ Himself had said it because, ..In this flock, Im the shepherd. If this pastors spiritual authority were real, he would not have to demand that others notice it. Nor would he step into the idolatrous position he places himself in, assuming the place reserved for the King of Kings! The fact that ¡°church leaders¡± are eager to place people under them under their word, under their authority is one easy-to-spot clue that they are operating in their own authority.

HIJACKING OF MARRIAGES (The most insidious of all aberrations)

What God has joined together, let not man put asunder.

In an authoritarian abusive church system, those in church leadership¡± positions reveal their true colors over and over again when it comes to this verse of Scripture. Jesus words, Scripturally speaking, are being spit upon and trampled under foot by these spiritual monsters; wolves in sheeps clothing (Matt. 7:15)

In an abusive church system, husbands and wives are being instructed to separate and even divorce from their spouse when one of them rebels (that is, when they begin to clearly understand the Scripture) against the leadership. This evil counsel is right from the pit of hell itself. Church members are falsely being taught a scaled down rendition of the marriage institution and many are being led down to the slaughter house in order that the abusers' own man-made position of authority in the church can now be exalted and take precedent high above the authority of the husband and the marriage institution itself.

So what happens now is this: when the word gets back to the pastors/elders concerning one spouse who is beginning to question or disagree with whats going on in the church, battle mode is now implemented. The other spouse will now be working with the church leadership to turn their mate around and bring them to their senses or to make them an example and fix em good. But when all else fails, separation and divorce in the next and final option. And the obedient spouse is all too eager to comply because this is what they have been taught.

Is a spouses decision to question the pastor, or church doctrine, or policy, or even to leave the church to attend another, so evil and rotten that the other spouse is being counseled to separate or even divorce if necessary from them? According to the lord's of the spiritual abusing institution, absolutely yes

Yes, this is evil and rotten because they are not honoring ME as they ought and they are refusing to bow the knee to my authority over them. They will not acknowledge the three spheres of government that has been set up: 1) the church, 2) civil, and 3) domestic. You dare not interfere with MY AUTHORITY, which is the churches authority.

This unbiblical nonsense is being taught and imbibed by many.

Who would ever have thought 100 years ago, that this will be the sad state of affairs in the protestant churches today. Who would ever have thought that articles need to be written warning the church members of this evil, diabolical teaching that wicked shepherds are engaging in. Surely, right before our very eyes, evil men and imposters are waxing worse and worse, deceiving and being deceived. 2 Tim. 3:13.

Instead of the Scriptural order of God, Christ, Man, Woman; now is has become God, Christ, pastor/church, man, woman!

Instead of the Scriptural command to wives that they be subject to their own husbands in everything; now it has become wives be subject to your own husbands in everything.......domestic!

Instead of the Scriptures stating that the husband is the head of the wife as Christ also is the head of the Church; now we have THE ELDERSHIP¡± being head over BOTH OF THEM ­EVEN AS Christ is head of the Church!

And instead of having, What God has joined together, let not man put asunder; we now have Let the pastor put asunder, what God has joined together.

It doesn't get much crazier than this!

If there ever was a day when God might bring fire down from heaven upon the heads of these men with their despicable teachings and despicable behavior of authority gone wild, these are the days in which we are living. These are the days in which the ¡°Lord is still a jealous God and avenges; the Lord avenges and is full of wrath; the Lord takes vengeance on His adversaries, and reserves wrath for His enemies. Nahum 1:2

These are the days of Ezekiel 34 where the shepherds feed themselves; where the shepherds refuse to strengthen, refuse to heal, refuse to bind up that which was broken, refuse to bring back that which was driven away, refuse to seek after that which was lost; but with force and with rigor have the shepherds ruled over them.

The false teachings of these spiritual abusers in putting themselves and their church first,
has led to these dastardly deeds that are occurring everywhere.

But be not deceived. God is not mocked.

Were living in dark dangerous times. Many churches today are no longer a safe haven to bring ourselves and our families to. The works of darkness, (Eph. 5:11; 6:12); the ministers of Satan, (2 Corth.11:15); the characteristics of the churches in all of Revelations Chapter 2 & 3 are ever present in these authoritarian spiritual abusing systems.

Not to mention: Matt. 20:25-26; Romans 1:18; Romans 1:28-32; 2 Tim. 3:1-7; Titus 1:10-11; 1 Peter 5:3; 2 Peter 2:1-3; Jude 12, 16, 19; 3 John 9-10.

Before God ever created children; before He ever created a church, or a family, or a government, He created the marriage institution. God's divine order is the MARRIAGE FIRST, then the family.

No other intruders allowed.

In other words, neither the family nor those in the church or in the government have any say in the marriage. Those in the church and the government have no say in the family (i.e., the home). The government has no say in the church nor the family. Only the marriage is sacred. When those in positions of leadership in the church, or anyone else, tampers with someone's marriage... THEY ARE TREADING HOLY GROUND! Marriages are made in Heaven.

Doesnt it anger you with a holy anger that these so-called pastors/elders" are so eager to break up other people's marriages; BUT, they would never ever tolerate someone doing that to their marriage.

As in so many other areas, they're nothing but meddling hypocrites!

One might ask, What are we to do when we realize and then finally see these atrocities occurring? Should we confront? Should we just leave? The only answer is to run away; get out as fast and as far as you can and drag your family with you.

You must understand that these questions will soon become irrelevant for you because the truth of the matter is that once you finally begin to believe God's Word and live by God's Word, you will not need to come out of the Church or leave the Church.

The Church will KICK YOU OUT! Many can personally attest to this, thankfully so.

Then if the Son sets you free, you are free indeed. John 8:36

PERFORMANCE PREOCCUPATION

In abusive spiritual systems, how people act is more important than who they are or what is happening to them on the inside. Love and acceptance are earned by doing or not doing certain things. Living up to the standard is what earns acceptance, the result of which is acceptance of behaviors, not people. For many reasons, church members sometimes obey or follow orders to avoid being shamed, to gain someones approval, or to keep their spiritual status or church position intact.

This is not true obedience or submission; it is compliant self-seeking. When behavior is simply legislated from the outside, instead of coming from a heart that loves God, it cannot be called obedience. It is merely weak compliance with some external pressure. This system does not foster holiness or obedience to God. It merely accommodates the leaders sick interpretation of spirituality and their need for control.

GOSSIP, SLANDER, TALE BEARING
Man's religion breeds every kind of wickedness; false witness abounds and gossip, slander and tale bearing is so common in authoritarian, abusive churches that no one thinks it is wrong. The Bible clearly condemns this practice: Leviticus 19:16, Proverbs 11:9, 11:13, 16:28, 20:19, Jeremiah 6:28, 9:4, Romans 1:29, 2 Corinthians 12:20, 1 Timothy 3:11, 5:13, 2 Timothy 3:3, Titus 2:3.

Yet, church leaders in authoritarian - abusive church systems seldom apply this to themselves. They somehow feel that they are exempt from having to avoid these evils. Within the context of counseling, many times the sins and failings of other individuals are frequently mentioned, as object lessons. Many times, they become the brunt of slander and gossip. At other times, even family members are sometimes asked to write down and submit information about the sins of those being counseled. This information becomes part of the member's personal file that may later be used to remind him or her of past sin, to gain control and/or to manipulate the member.

Oh yes. Havent you ever heard the analogy that is often used? A medical doctor keeps files and records of your visits; records all of your ailments and statistics to use in aiding his/her understanding of your situation. So therefore, its OK for the church leader to keep a file of all your faults and sins that have been confessed to him at counseling sessions, and then if necessary, use them against you! Among other things, what this sick behavior does is promote other church members to engage in this same gossiping and slandering sickness as well.

Despite many years of faithful service, in authoritarian - abusive church systems, malicious and slanderous information will often be communicated about recently dismissed members; and in some cases, not too-recently dismissed. False accusations, explicit and implicit, vilify them as false brothers, Judas, demonized, God-haters, accused of treason, rebellion. Many church members within these systems uncritically accept these judgments about their former members assuming that the leadership would never slander.

This sin is obvious to the victims, but not commonly known among members since the slander, when coupled with shunning, serves to conceal the leadership's sin by "protecting" members from contrary information. In fact, in many cases, any information from ex-members is often labeled as lies and members are advised to respond to ex-members who initiate contact with such statements as "I am forbidden to associate with others who are not of like mind . . ." In such a church system as this, the members are easily manipulated and turned against their brothers and sisters in Christ.

UNSPOKEN RULES

In abusive spiritual systems, peoples lives are controlled from the outside in by rules, spoken and unspoken. Unspoken rules are those that govern unhealthy churches or families but are not said out loud. Because they are not said out loud, you dont find out that theyre there until you break them.

For instance, no one at a church gathering would would ever say out loud, You know we must never disagree with the pastor on his sermons and if you do, you will never be trusted and never be allowed to minister in any capacity in this church. In this case, the unspoken rule is: Do not disagree with the church authorities especially the pastor - or your loyalty will be subject. Rules like this remain unspoken because examining them in the light of mature dialogue would instantly reveal how illogical, unhealthy and anti-Christian they are. So silence becomes the fortress wall of protection, shielding the pastors power position from scrutiny or challenge.

PREOCCUPATION WITH FAULT AND BLAME
In an abusive church system, since performance has so much power, much is brought to bear in order to control it. Reaction is swift and furious toward the one who fails to perform the way the church deems fit. People have to pay for their mistakes. Responsibility and accountability are not the issues here: Fault and blame are the issues. In the New Testament, the purpose of confessing a sin is to receive forgiveness and cleansing. The shame-based church system wants a confession in order to know whom to blame that is, whom to make feel so defective and humiliated that they wont act that way anymore.

OBSCURED REALITY

In abusive church systems, the members have to deny any thought, opinion or feeling that is different from those who are in authority at church. Anything that has the potential to shame those in authority is ignored or denied. The church member cant find out about life through normal trial-and-error learning because mistakes shame. Interaction with people and places outside the church threatens the order of things. The church defines reality. Consequently, you cant find out what ¡°normal is. Problems are denied, and thereby the remain.

PARANOIA

In an abusive church system, it will be often said that outside the system, there are evil, dangerous, unspiritual people who are trying to weaken or destroy us. This mentality builds a strong wall or bunker around the abusive church system, isolates the abusers from scrutiny and accountability, and makes it more difficult for people to leave because they will then be outsiders too. The result: the people are misled into thinking that the only safety is in their church system. Ironically, Jesus and Paul both warned that one of the worst dangers to the flock was from wolves in the house. Matt. 10:16; Acts 20:29-30

OPPRESSIVE LEADERSHIP

Jesus called them together and said, You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their high officials exercise authority over them. NOT SO with you. Instead, whoever wants to become great among you must be your servant. Matt.20:25-26 The sense of "lording it over" in this passage carries the meaning of having power over, or control of another, and it is condemned by the Lord as inappropriate for leaders in the church. In fact, the Scriptures say NOWHERE that a church leader has authority over the congregation.

Yet, sadly, this is the hallmark and the defining characteristic of leaders in an abusive church system. In many such systems, church members are expected to seek council from their elder on matters regardless of whether they are moral issues. So, it is not uncommon for members to go running to their elders as to whether to buy a house; planning vacations; changing jobs; raising and disciplining children; moving to another location; dating; marriage; getting a vasectomy; going to movies; how much to tithe; or what to do or not to do on a certain day.

Those who do not seek such council¡± are labeled independent and rebellious. Great stress is placed on the need to submit to the authority of the pastor or the elders with little or no right to question, which includes following their "suggestions". To refuse to do so is to be marked as a rebel.

By enforcing submission to their authority in areas not clearly mandated or proscribed by Scripture, i.e. in matters of conscience, many church leaders are imposing legalism, and are usurping the place of the Holy Spirit in the life of the believer. The consequence of this is that the members fall into an uncritical acceptance of whatever the leader says, in some cases violating their own conscience, and they gradually lose the ability to hear from God, or to decide for themselves, based on the clear meaning of Scripture.

REQUIRING HONOR

One of the many trademarks of the Pharisees was that they "love the place of honor at banquets and the most important seats in the synagogue; they love to be greeted in the marketplaces and to have men call them Rabbi. Matthew 23

Another way to spot an abusive church system is when the leaders require the place of honor.

The less secure a leader is, the more important titles will be to him. The Pharisees had very little internal substance. All they had was the external polish. Clean but empty cups. When that is the case, it is very important that others notice the polished performance, since it is the sole source of value. Maybe to some, the removal of recognition sounds disrespectful. The true issue is not whether you choose to use a title or not. The true issue is whether you need it whether you have to have it. The Pharisees required it, and Jesus pointed out that this is one mark of a false spiritual leader.

In all too many abusive church systems, the need to address your church leaders with their proper titles is very common; and failing to do so will absolutely NOT BE TOLERATED!

ELITISM

In authoritarian abusive church systems, it is not uncommon to hear other evangelical fellowships/ministries denounced from the pulpit, while there is boasting about their own ministries. Generally, the criticism is leveled at others whose theological views are somewhat within the mainstream theologically but with whom the church system differs. Those holding differing views are sometimes described in pejorative terms, e.g., "stupid"; or ¡°a juggernaut. PRIDE is at the heart of this spiritual elitism that believes that they only are the few, perhaps the only local church that preaches the Gospel in purity.

REFUSING TO HEAR OR HEED CORRECTION
In abusive church systems, many times it will be emphasized the importance of soliciting and receiving godly correction (and rightly so), yet the pastor/elder¡± himself often responds in a haughty, contemptuous, and abusive manner when questioned or when attempts are made to bring correction to him. Those who bring forward an issue or concern are often accused of being the problem, and charged with pride, arrogance, and a wicked spirit.

UNBIBLICAL EXCOMMUNICATION PRACTICES

Many authoritarian abusive church systems greatly abuse the discipline of excommunication. In many cases, but certainly not all, the sole act of leaving the church can trigger the discipline of excommunication, although the reasons given are usually something else. In some cases, people have been publicly excommunicated from abusive church systems, after having left the church, without any warnings, and without even receiving a letter of excommunication.

Not only that, the leaders in these types of systems encourages the practice of shunning persons who leave the church, cutting off all social, and, as a result, business and family contact with such persons, a practice that is unique to cults like the Jehovah's Witnesses or highly isolated groups like the Amish.

Jesus said that the unrepentant believer, after two warnings, is to be treated as "a gentile or tax collector". Treating someone as "a gentile or a tax collector", means not to relate to them as you would a brother. It does not mean to cut off all social contact, for Jesus himself interacted with gentiles, including tax collectors. In all too many authoritarian abusive church systems, the purpose of excommunication and shunning has little to do with the Biblical goal of restoration.

Clearly the intention is to keep those who have left from sharing their reasons for leaving with those in the church.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/19/2008 01:07PM by whatajoke.

Look at another one of Tony’s Corporations at
[www.resonanceinstitute.org]

Even the opening of this video on his web site shows you how smug and arrogant Tony can be.

Why does he have a PO Box in Davis? Why does he like that town so much?
What is wrong with Elk Grove and Sacramento?

What kind of good fruit has Tony borne?

He was involved with Hidden Door - defunct;
Dynamais - struggling;
Garibaldi Signature Gallery- never happened and investors he encouraged lost money; Ella's Restaurant - defunct;
Capstone - all but defunct;
Landmark - almost went under due to Tony's advice;
Carmazzi - struggling;
RADIANT LIFE CHURCH - struggling; not to mention the ministries he started and vowed to stick with, only to get out when they weren't going his way and then blaming staff and those he left for it's downfall.

He also encouraged people to invest in Pasta Q - that one failed and the investors lost money. There are numerous other business ventures that he talked people into spending time, money, and effort to investigate and put together a plan for.
Nothing came from any of them.
It seems that anything he touches in the business world goes at least sideways, but usually ends up worse off or dead.


Tony Shut Up! You are only regurgitating what the self-help gurus like Anthony Robbins has already put into there books and videos!
your not even original!

Quote
Free2bme
I have been pondering this for quite some time and it is something I would like to share. Please refer to the following:

Matthew 5: 21"You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, 'Do not murder, and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.' 22But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to his brother, 'Raca,' is answerable to the Sanhedrin. But anyone who says, 'You fool!' will be in danger of the fire of hell. 23"Therefore, if you are offering your gift at the altar and there remember that your brother has something against you, 24leave your gift there in front of the altar. First go and be reconciled to your brother; then come and offer your gift.

Angry: The Greek word is orgizo which means to be angry, enraged, to feel and express strong displeasure and hostility; this can range from petty human anger to the righteous anger of God toward sinful disobedience.

Judgement: The Greek word is krisis (human or divine), justice, the concept of determining the correctness of a matter; negatively, punishment, condemnation; - judgment, justice, condemned judge, judgments, accusation, be condemned, decisions, doom, make judgment, verdict.

At the risk of sounding 'preachy' I wanted to give you the biblical definitions of the above two words. First, we all have been accused of being angry and passing judgement. As you can see by the definitions above there is a righteous anger and judgement is good and right. I am not judging on criteria that I in turn will not follow. That is why I believe that this anger would be subject to judgment to make sure that is justified.

Now, Tony must know that there are many people who are angry. The common answers by elders and leaders are that the people who are speaking out are angry. If this is not coming from Tony than Mr. Cunningham has a leadership problem in that his staff is insubordinate. If it is coming from him than you have a bigger problem in leadership in that he is not walking in alignment with the scripture. How many times has he left his gifts at the altar and come and reconciled with any one of us?

So I ask you elders, are you going to continue to support a man's agenda or God's? How many more families will be ruined before you realize what is going on and do something about it? How many faithful followers of Jesus Christ will leave the church without any contact from anyone? Regarding this so called investigation, how many people were contacted? I didn't receive a phone call.

Some questions for the meeting tomorrow:

1. This new business of Tony's appears to be a non-profit organization. Whose 501c(3) is he using? Verify that it's not RLCs.
2. What are the salaries of the pastors and leaders? Don't buy into the 'privacy' excuse. Taxpayers are entitled to see the salaries of State workers and public officials; how much more should a non-profit be accountable to those who are tithing?
3. When was the last time the board of elders differed in their opinion with the pastor and how was it handled?
4. What is the process of selection for the elder board? Who makes the initial suggestion?

Finally- Galatians 6:7, "Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life. 9Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up. 10Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, especially to those who belong to the family of believers."

Karen

Great questions Karen
I wonder if the IRS agents read this forum? Hmm

I think Questions 3 & 4 is good start but people need to ask why all the complaints of Spiritual Abuse have fallen on deaf ears with the elders and pastors?
Why is Tony not under there authority?


If the congregation of Radiant Life wants to help pull the reputation of Radiant Life Church out of the Toilet they need to immediately put Tony on an administrative leave and escort him out of the building so as not to intimidate or interrupt the of the remaining members of congregation in this very important meeting.
Then vote out all the Elders.
Then amend the current bylaws and set up a democratically elected board of elders that all pastors are to be submitted to their authority. The Pastors are not to serve as an Elder or have a vote as this is a conflict of interest.

If you don’t Tony wins:
He walks away with the concubine of women he continues to call his Spiritual Daughters who are loyal to his every word.
Most likely John Lee will be the next paid person given the pink slip by the elders.
The 3 Services will be cut to 2 services.

Heck they could close down the church next week
The building will remain in Tony’s Name and Tony walks away a multi-dollar-millionaire.

So it is up to the people….

It is time NOW to pray for God's justice and God's light and God's strength. Not for those of us who are gone, but for any who are left. I have no expectations related to the meeting that will begin in 15 minutes, but pray. Pray!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Pray!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Matthew 18:5-7

5"And whoever welcomes a little child like this in my name welcomes me. 6But if anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a large millstone hung around his neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea.

7Woe to the world because of the things that cause people to sin! Such things must come, but woe to the man through whom they come!"



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 10/21/2008 04:04AM by Escapee07.