In Jeremiah's day, the false prophets were prophesying "positive" messages only, saying that Judah would not fall to Babylon, that God was on their side and they would certainly prevail in God's favor because they were God's people, after all.

Sound familiar? Meanwhile, Jeremiah, the real prophet of God, was saying, "God is going to give you over to the king of Babylon. Surrender now and save yourselves." (paraphrase) Jeremiah was persecuted for his "negative," "judgmental," "nonjoyful," "faith-killing" message.

Turning Point, the Word of God says that in the last days there will be GREAT APOSTASY (falling away), not great revival. Are we balking against God's Word again because it is "negative," "nonjoyful," "faith-killing" in our opinion? Are we listening to the false prophets and spiritual leaders who are teaching contrary to God's Word? Are we submitting to their secondary authority when God has called us to submit to His primary authority first--the authority of His Word and His Spirit of Truth?

Jeremiah 5 (God's Words to and through Jeremiah)

30. "An appalling and horrible thing
Has happened in the land:
31. The prophets prophesy falsely,
And the priests rule on their own authority;
And My people love it so!
But what will you do at the end of it?

Mathew 7:22,23 Many will say to me on that day, Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in you name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles? Then I will tell them plainly I never knew you. Away from me you evildoers! Reference to versus: To excape the deceit of the last days, church leaders (or any deciple) must be totally committed to the truth and the righteousness revealed in God's Word and not consider "ministerial success" as the standard by which to judge their relationship to Christ. Life in the Spirth Study Bible. Buddy

Thank you Buddy for filling in the larger context of what Pastor Mike preached about.

I must reluctantly acknowledge that it Buddy was accurate in communicating what Mike said.

I got to hear a segment of the sermon, when he said "Feed it dog food" it got a laugh. That part was meant to be funny. However the larger context was the need for unity that doesn't criticize.

I think the tone of the sermon was that unity should come suppressing questioning.

In my experinence a healthy family or church create an atmosphere of transparency and openess. The leader doesn't try to repress. One can gain unity by putting a gag order on people and making the environment ackward to question the position of the leader. This only leads to backdoor forms of communication.

One of the teachers at SOMA did a great job by inviting the students to study some of the key doctrines of TP. This has led to healthy questioning and study by the students.

I think that leads to healthy unity not fake unity.

Have missed your voice M&M. Good to hear from you! Thanks for taking time to give the sermon a listen. I tried to find it online but couldn't. Can you tell me where to find it?

Welcome back M&M, The dog food did get a few laughs, but when Mike said well, well, what if a wolf gets in our sight and then proceeded to repeat himself he either tried to turn it into a joke or didn't know how to answer it. Mike only knows. I believe God made him say it to reveal to him that the wolves are in his midst. During the same sermon Mike said that they went to lots of church services where Jesus was at mostly but not all. Who is he to judge? Buddy

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nooneofanyimportence
to answer your question on being and eye witness to Jesus I'm sure all of these new apostles saw passion of the Christ at the movies would that be considered and eye witness account

Ah! Never thought of that, nooneofanyimportance! Ha! :-)

OK then, so OTHER than seeing the Passion movie, does anyone know what the rest of the qualifications are for being a modern-day apostle?

What do you get when you combine pastor Mike and a modern day apostle? A Napoleon complex!

Here are some excerpts from an article entitled "Are There Modern-Day Apostles?" found at this link [www.apologeticspress.org]:

THE QUALIFICATIONS OF AN APOSTLE

When one assembles all the relevant New Testament data, at least three qualifications emerge as prerequisite to one becoming an apostle in the official sense (Hayden, 1894, p. 33, expands these credentials to seven in number). First, an apostle had to have seen the Lord and been an eyewitness of Christ’s resurrection (Acts 1:22; 22:14; 1 Corinthians 9:1). Second, an apostle had to be specifically selected by the Lord or the Holy Spirit (Matthew 10:5; Mark 3:13-14; Luke 6:13; Acts 1:26; 9:15; 22:14-15,21; 26:16). Third, an apostle was invested with miraculous power to the extent that he could perform miracles. The power to perform miracles included the capability to confer the ability to work miracles to other individuals through the laying on of his hands (Mark 3:15; 16:17-20; Luke 9:1-2; John 14:12,26; 15:24-27; 16:13; Acts 2:43; 4:29-31,33; 5:12,15-16; 6:6; 8:14-18; 19:6; 2 Timothy 1:6; Romans 1:11; Hebrews 2:3-4). Jesus referred to His bestowal of miraculous capability upon the apostles when He promised they would be “endued with power from on high” (Luke 24:49).


NO APOSTLES TODAY

Unfortunately, several groups that claim affiliation with the Christian religion allege to have apostles among them, including Catholicism, Mormonism, and some pentecostal groups. This claim is unbiblical. No person living today can meet the qualifications given in Scripture for being an apostle. No one living today has been an eyewitness of Christ’s resurrection. Christ has selected no one living today for the apostolic role. No one living today possesses the miraculous capabilities of an apostle. We should not be surprised that people would falsely claim to be apostles. Jesus warned that false prophets would come in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they would be ravening wolves (Matthew 7:15). Paul described some of his opponents in these words:

For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into apostles of Christ. And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness, whose end will be according to their works (2 Corinthians 11:13-15).

Further warning was issued to the Galatian churches: “But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed” (Galatians 1:8). Anyone claiming to be an apostle today who teaches anything in addition to the New Testament is clearly not an apostle of Christ!

Peter added his voice on the same subject: “But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction” (2 Peter 2:1). No wonder John admonished: “Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world” (1 John 4:1; cf. Matthew 24:11,24). In the Revelation, the church at Ephesus was commended because they “tested those who say they are apostles and are not, and have found them liars” (Revelation 2:2).

Another excerpt (the conclusion) from a paper/book about apostles found at this link [www.thefaithfulword.org]:

Apostles: Conclusion

History tells of no mighty army of apostles trained and sent out by the first century church. The apostles died, John last of all, leaving no apostles in their place. The only people who would be surprised by this are those that mistakenly believe in a Roman Catholic system of "apostolic succession." But those who read the Scriptures will readily recall that there is no teaching whatsoever in Scripture for a believer to put into practice today on "How to Become an Apostle." Paul never wrote to tell Timothy how to spot the next apostle after he died. No Scripture ever details the qualifications of an apostle except to say that they had to be with Christ, be appointed by Him, witness His resurrection, be trained by Him for three years, and perform miraculous signs, wonders, and healings.

As the apostles died, there were fewer and fewer men who had been appointed by Christ as apostles. As they died and became fewer, the number of churches was growing and growing. The last apostle on Earth completed the Scriptures closing the door on prophetic Scripture and all the authenticating apostolic sign gifts. But the number of Christian churches was even larger.

Who will do the apostles’ work of teaching and preaching and planting churches today? The church planters today are the same men that planted churches side-by-side with apostles--the evangelists. The apostles’ teachings and equipping works are still with us--the Scriptures. Just as the church carried on the tasks of church planting, teaching, and evangelism in those days without benefit of any new apostles, so too can we carry on today in the same strength of the Spirit and with the same zeal, if we are willing.

What are we to think of men today who demand to be respected as apostles? Only God knows a man’s heart, desires, and motives. We cannot judge the inner thoughts of such a one. But, written in Scripture, an apostle’s own words, is a warning about men who used to call themselves Paul’s equals: "For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. Therefore it is not surprising if his servants also disguise themselves as servants of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their deeds." (2 Corinthians 11:13-15)

To be certain, they may appear to have good character, even a righteous character; but, they may be disguised as a servant of righteousness, or disguised as an apostle. Even servants of Satan can appear to have "good characters." Good character is no substitute for good theology. Good character is no requisite for apostleship. Paul condemns the attempt of these men to be apostles; Paul did not applaud their desire. He found these apostolic imposters of himself to be false.

May we not be guilty of teaching men how to become false apostles.


"…you put to the test those who call themselves apostles..and you found them to be false;" (Revelation 2:2)

Turning Point women, I noticed Turning Point is promoting the women's ministry Designer's Original Women's Conference with speaker Lisa Bevere. I noticed her best selling books in the word faith movement section in the book store. Can anybody help me out? She seems to promote herself in sale merchandise. Buddy