I think that there is a modern assumption that the apostles were without flaw.

Consider the twelve chosen by Jesus

Juda Iscariot not much more needs to be said here other than would you follow Judas?

Peter Jesus says to him "get behind me Satan"

Paul also later rebukes Peter publically.

Ok, so some hotshot says that they are the modern embodiment of an apostle. Is this person a true servant leader? Or do they participate in the teaching of the Pharisees, Sadducees and Scribes?

The modern "apostle" seems to be more like "look at me" that servant leader.

Some of them, seem to be intent on putting heavy burdens on people's shoulders why they themselves are not willing to lift a finger.

So far I am very unimpressed with this new crop of "apostles" who appear to be more intent on enriching themselves and building a legacy for their name than serving.

Hey, this is Sam. Many of you have mentioned me on this forum and what I've been doing. No, I'm not a member of Turning Point Church. I'm the chief creator of the Turning Point Church Satire videos that are hosted on YouTube. A couple of you have speculated on my reasons and motives behind the videos and I think it's only appropriate I explain myself here on this thread. I hope no one has a problem with it.

First off, my YouTube page: [www.youtube.com]

On it you can manually navigate to view all seven of my current Turning Point Satire videos, or you can go to the satire's playlist which is kinda near the top of my user page and view the videos from there. If you want.

The seven I currently have up are:
Hot Lunch
Fall of Liberty
Evening with Mike
How to Argue
Leaving Turning Point
Mike and Tony
and Lesson in Faith

I'd like to explain my initial motives for starting this, if you don't mind.
First off there were reports I overheard of their church handing out bibles at several schools in my town, Marysville, WA. My home town and the Church's location. I'll say it bugged me but not enough for me to do anything. They also shouted on weekends with a blow horn out at the Junior High's field on Sunday mornings, disturbing my friend (who lives near there) often. So I heard about them some more. My friend and I did some google searches on their church and found video blogs. We found the pastor to be very.... Creepy. Like he was forcing his kindness through his teeth. And toward the end of one of his first video blog we saw him making his son pray and love Jesus before he ate lunch. Kids at that age are very easily drilled into a religion... And once it is set in there good it's impossible for them to ever have a choice on the matter themself. So that bothered us. All this came together and we decided to make fun of him.

The first parody was of his first video blog. We wanted to show him as acting really creepy and do a metaphor for how he forces his religion on his kid. And we did. It was very poorly and quickly done too. We didn't really care about it's quality. We did it early in the morning after we stayed up all night, used a bad camera, and were just joking around when we did it.

A while after it was published we stopped and made parodies and jokes about 9/11 Conspiracy theorists, forgetting entirely about the Church. A long while passed and then I got a call from work. A muscular man with tattoos came into where I worked looking for me. According to my fellow employees, he wanted to quote "break my arm" and quote "kick my teeth in." That I made fun of a pastor and I wouldn't, quote, "get away with it." I inquired into the incident more and learned he was wasn't the pastor himself but a church member.

Soon after I found more threats on my YouTube account. Which are still there. At the bottom of my YouTube page, which I provided, you will see the very same Turning Point Church member posting something like "take up some defense classes." Also on one of my videos he posted "see you around." And other things of the sort. He has since deleted his account, but if you went to his account you would see that his hobbies and past times are breaking arms, dealing with people, and stuff of the sort. And the videos he favored were violent ones.

People around me wanted me to take my video down, others wanted me to call the police, others wanted me to do both. Instead I got pissed at someone threatening me over my right to free speech and so I made another Turning Point Church Satire.

This was Turning Point Church Satire #2 - Fall of Liberty. This was a direct confrontation of my threats and was entirely fueled by the threats that were given to me. In it I play Mike again, only I go on about how we should restrain people's free speech if they make fun of the church. I didn't know or think Mike was in on the threats, and I said so in the description of the video. But I used Mike and "mongo" (a name I gave to my tattooed previously nameless threatener) to get my point across.

Many of you on this forum are well intended and bless you for that. But when speaking of me you have chose to say that I have only created my blogs out of anger, frustration, hatred, and self righteousness. You've said that I was only trying to blow off steam and promote atheism.

If you watch my initial parodies closely then you'll see that's not the case. The first blog was merely a joke around thing I did while half asleep with my friend (you can see bloopers at the end of the video). And the second one, created much later, was me fighting back against direct physical threats from members of the church.

I do not see why directly defending myself against real and actual threats means I'm "promoting atheism" or that I'm "self righteous."

I didn't come to argue or lash out with any of you, again, I'm very glad to see people honestly concerned working for the greater good of communities. And because you probably didn't understand me, It's not that big of a deal.

But I should inform you of my own side of the story. Should I not?

A while after that second satire I made more. A lot more. Five more. Why? Because a while after my second satire I got several viewers sending me YouTube messages about the church and things they've seen and heard and so on and so forth. And because members of the church were still barking at me, I decided to parody it all.

Evening with Mike I talked about his relationship with Tony. I had my friend, playing his son, mention how Mike used donated money to buy a house, car, and home theater. I even played further on his authoritarian stature when I made fun of the church's bulletin and how he treated his son. Again, metaphors.

The fourth video was a direct response to the members of the church commenting against me on the video blogs. I took all the main arguments they were making against me and refuted them through satire of them. And it was pretty funny too.

The fifth video was about a member wanted to leave Turning Point, and again a joke on Mike's "above you" personality.

The sixth was a huge video dedicated to Mike and Tony Cunningham's relationship. I went into how Mike has a mini fridge in his house set up just for Tony. I went into Tony's practice of... Child taking... Of sorts. And made them seem as close as they very likely are, considering their history and continuing affiliation.

The seventh and latest video is a direct response to the members of Turning Point Church being told by their elders not to view or respond to my videos anymore. In the video I play Mike and instruct the members to blindfold their eyes and cover their mouths. And that it was the "Turning Point way."

None of this was to promote atheism. I did play Mike and have him make fun of atheists by saying "Silly Atheists," but that wasn't a point of metaphor that was in any of the videos. I am an atheist, and I do not like religion one bit. Promoting atheism and speaking against religion IS something I WOULD do. But it was not done in these videos.

In fact, I had filmed a serious response to Turning Point. A serious video. Where I said I wasn't religious and I wouldn't pretend to be, but that in the spirit of speaking in terms a religious person would understand... I said that believers should worship Christ, not a man. And that no man has the authority to speak for God, or to tell you to seek God only through him. I deleted that serious comment to Turning Point, because I want to redo it.

Right after I finish making Turning Point Satire #8: A Villamor Christmas.

I hope some of this information helps.

Dear Sam,

Thanks for your comments. First I want to say I think you are very intelligent and a creative man. Second, that when I watched your first video it was almost physically painful. In the classic satirical way you did communicate how Pastor Mike comes across. On the other hand it was heartbreaking because Mike has done many good things. This is a massive blindspot in his life and in Cyndi's. My hope was that they would take a good hard look at that video and seek out the counsel of people who aren't enmeshed in their lives and ask, does that video capture any part of me? Is that how I come across?

A couple of the subsequent video's possibly used material I had written in this forum (“you are in a dangerous place” and the “little refrigerator”). That was sobering. What I said was true. But it caused me to do some soul searching. I asked people I know to review what I have written and to give me feedback. One guy joked: “If he came to just a few services he would have even more ridiculous satires to make that would REALLY be funny!”

You mentioned that you are an atheist. I think even though you would say you didn't go into that in your satires I think it naturally seeps out. It is similar to Mike not being aware how much he is promoting himself in his videos. Does that make sense?

In my heart I hope that Mike and Cyndi, who are very gifted and intelligent people will renounce the apostolic master and commander beliefs and seek to be servants. They have so much to offer Marysville.

Thanks

Yesterday was Pastors Mike and Cyndi's return from Sabbatical. In many ways it was a let down no matter what your view of the church. Pastor Jeff Barnes had called upon the church to come with running shoes on to indicate they were ready to run wherever Mike and Cyndi said they should go. The worship team was all dressed up in workout regalia.

But Pastor Mike delivered a basic sermon without any vision casting or apostolic statements of the future. For those who hoped and prayed that there would be a message of repentence and change it was also something of a letdown.

It is possible for those of us who believe the apostolic doctrine is built on sand that this could mean a retreat from Mike's apostolic role.

I have been thinking over the last few weeks about authority and power. Power is built up in Christian and secular groups by dressing in power suits, dress for success, taking places of authority, and surrounding yourself with people and settings that exude power. The White House, Air Force One, rolexes, stretch limo's. Often the grasp for power also involves “faking it until you make it”. You project the image you want even if it is false or misleading. Some Christians call it “faithing it” instead of faking it. It is cynical reference to people being dishonest in the name of faith.

But the Christian argument is that we are not to grasp for power but receive the power God gives us. This results not in the secular concept of power but the Christian concept of authority. The truly powerful Christian doesn't resort to image and grasping for power. Jesus rebuked such things. Of Christ it is said that “He was meek and lowly” scripture also says that “He had no form that men should look at Him nor appearance that we should be attracted to Him.”

At the core of what Jesus taught was honesty. We should be first and foremost honest in order to receive the power of the Holy Spirit. Because He is the “Spirit of truth”.

Say a pastor has to take a Sabbatical for reasons that would be embarrassing to his pride. Would the Holy Spirit guide him to mislead? Is that how the God of truth works? What if a pastor chose to be totally honest with himself and his flock knowing that his power rests not in appearance or self promotion but the power of the Holy Spirit. What if David said something like “Behold thou dost desire truth in the inmost being.” Should we be honest or should we lie? Do you think David's admonition doesn't apply to the pastor of the mega-church or the apostle?

Quote
M&M
Yesterday was Pastors Mike and Cyndi's return from Sabbatical. In many ways it was a let down no matter what your view of the church. Pastor Jeff Barnes had called upon the church to come with running shoes on to indicate they were ready to run wherever Mike and Cyndi said they should go. The worship team was all dressed up in workout regalia.

But Pastor Mike delivered a basic sermon without any vision casting or apostolic statements of the future. For those who hoped and prayed that there would be a message of repentence and change it was also something of a letdown.

It is possible for those of us who believe the apostolic doctrine is built on sand that this could mean a retreat from Mike's apostolic role.

I have been thinking over the last few weeks about authority and power. Power is built up in Christian and secular groups by dressing in power suits, dress for success, taking places of authority, and surrounding yourself with people and settings that exude power. The White House, Air Force One, rolexes, stretch limo's. Often the grasp for power also involves “faking it until you make it”. You project the image you want even if it is false or misleading. Some Christians call it “faithing it” instead of faking it. It is cynical reference to people being dishonest in the name of faith.

But the Christian argument is that we are not to grasp for power but receive the power God gives us. This results not in the secular concept of power but the Christian concept of authority. The truly powerful Christian doesn't resort to image and grasping for power. Jesus rebuked such things. Of Christ it is said that “He was meek and lowly” scripture also says that “He had no form that men should look at Him nor appearance that we should be attracted to Him.”

At the core of what Jesus taught was honesty. We should be first and foremost honest in order to receive the power of the Holy Spirit. Because He is the “Spirit of truth”.

Say a pastor has to take a Sabbatical for reasons that would be embarrassing to his pride. Would the Holy Spirit guide him to mislead? Is that how the God of truth works? What if a pastor chose to be totally honest with himself and his flock knowing that his power rests not in appearance or self promotion but the power of the Holy Spirit. What if David said something like “Behold thou dost desire truth in the inmost being.” Should we be honest or should we lie? Do you think David's admonition doesn't apply to the pastor of the mega-church or the apostle?

Intriguing post M & M. But I must say, "I've got the Joy JOy JOY down in my heart!"

Repentance requires confrontation and brokenness. Without these there is no repentance. Unfortunately I dont believe there is any turning from the Apostolic Role. The message was peppered with apostolic speak even if there was no direct reference. And lets not forget the Apostolic Conference that Mike will be leading very soon. No It does not appear that a turning away will come soon.

Excuse my language but sounds like the same sort of crap that would be done at Radiant Life. Show up with running shoes on and warmup suits to see where the False Apostle was taking us now. You guys might as well be at an Amway convention.

I am wondering where in scripture it speaks to LEAD APOSTLES. This was brought up at a Church Plant Intensive through SOMA NW (which by the way is registered and licensed through Radiant Life Sacramento) by Mike Villamor, who said that he was the LEAD APOSTLE FOR TPC WOC . He referenced Acts where James makes the declaration of what he feels should be done regarding circumcision. Citing that James was judge. And all the other apostles agreed. I cannot make the connection that James and Mike Villamor are comparable. Could it be that TPC WOC is seeking to become its own denomination? With Mike and Cindy as the LEAD APOSTLE AND PROPHET, who then has oversight over them, I suppose just the Holy Spirit. Isnt this just a little bit scary for Turning Pointers or is everyone ignorant of the Word? I say what is next, they said on Sunday how they are having another TPC in oregon, added to Burnaby, Skagit Valley and the Philippines, do the members decide this or do the senior pastors make all the decisions? I would be interested in why they added Burnaby ( a church of 8 ??? ) too, because months ago they said they were bringing Burnaby pastors back because of illness. Do 8 people make a churh plant? Does anyone know the senior pastors salaries? Are they paid seperately for SOMA NW teaching? Do they use church office hrs to prepare for SOMA NW teaching, is that what they call integrity? I am so saddened by what i am seeing and hearing around TPC- What was the REAL REASONS for the supposed sabbactical of rest and revelation- Someone said they saw them at a counseling center, so I wonder? How about you?

I would challange Mike & Cindi to come clean before the church body at TPC.
Are they still following the false apostleTony Cunningham?
and can they answer this, by what authority does Mike think he is an apostle?

We are currently going to Turning Point and I have also wondered if they were getting paid for Teaching Soma as well as full time ministry along with real estate. When do they sleep and spend time as a family? When do they have time to do extra volunteer work they expect their parishioners to do above their jobs? Our full time jobs are 40 hours a week and along with having a child and keeping up with sports activities and church activities we don't have time left to do a second job let alone a third part time job. We also noticed some word of faith activity amongst members and staff. We are very concerned about the direction the church is going and seriously considering departing ways. I thought the Mormons were the only ones with apostles, but I guess I was mistaken we have Mike. I find it very sad to see this happening to a church that has so many good things going for it. I think Mike needs to repent and spill it all out to the congregation and I believe you would see a great revival. Of course if you have been deceived into believing you are right it would be next to impossible to repent for something you believe in and that is why I'm going to start looking for another place to worship that follows my beliefs. Who is protecting the flock from false teaching? Where is the spirit of discernment? Buddy

Recently I have noticed innuendo related to the reasons behind Pastor Mike's sabbatical in postings on this thread.
I do not believe innuendo serves any good purpose for this forum and only leads to questions about the integrity
of those who post such things.

My personal belief is that this forum is best served by facts and accounts of first hand experience.

If there are those who believe it is of importance to know the facts behind Pastor Mike's sabbatical purpose then state those facts.
But, please, lets try to stay away from innuendo.

I appreciate all of you who have shared your personal experiences here on this forum and I do not want to see neither your experience nor the vital concerns of this forum called into question because we become careless in our postings.