Oh, yes! There is a second strategy of dealing with Satan, and that is to FLEE.

So, we either (1) stand firm in the FULL armor of God and resist the devil (and he will flee from us--James 4:6-7), or (2) WE can flee the enemy's attempts to draw us a away or seduce us with temptation.

1 Corinthians 6:18--Flee immorality.
1 Corinthians 10:14--Therefore, my beloved, flee from idolatry.
1 Timothy 6:9-11--But those who want to get rich fall into temptation and a snare and many foolish and harmful desires which plunge men into ruin and destruction. For the love of money is a root of all sorts of evil, and some by longing for it have wandered away from the faith, and pierced themselves with many a pang. But flee from these things, you man of God; and pursue righteousness, godliness, faith, love, perseverance and gentleness.
2 Timothy 2:22--Now flee from youthful lusts, and pursue righteousness, faith, love and peace, with those who call on the Lord from a pure heart.

BTW: Flight is a legitimate (and should be a quite natural) response of the sheep when there is a stranger/enemy in their midst (see below):

John 10
Parable of the Good Shepherd

1. "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who does not enter by the door into the fold of the sheep, but climbs up some other way, he is a thief and a robber.
2. "But he who enters by the door is a shepherd of the sheep.
3. "To him the doorkeeper opens, and the sheep hear his voice, and he calls his own sheep by name, and leads them out.
4. "When he puts forth all his own, he goes before them, and the sheep follow him because they know his voice.
5. "And a stranger they simply will not follow, but will flee from him, because they do not know the voice of strangers."

I don't know the full context in which the remarks were made about the wolf. Nor have I come to the conclusion that Mike is the wolf among the lambs. However, If you take time to read through the RLC threads on this forum you may very well come to the conclusion that Tony is a wolf.

This is the very same Tony whom Mike has entered into a Spiritual Parenting relationship with; it is the same Tony under whos covering Mike has chosen to stand; it is the very same Tony who has prepared much of the SOMA material; it is the very same Tony who has led Leadership intensives at Turning Point; it is the very same Tony who commissioned Mike in his Apostleship ceremony; it is the very same Tony who has caused much destruction in many lives as testified to in the RLC threads.

This is the person whom, not only Mike, but the other Pastors, Elders, and Deacons have looked up to, embraced, hosted, modeled, and, ultimately, submitted to; This is the person whom the leaders of Turning Point have invited to sit in the midst of the flock.

Is Tony a wolf? If so, did Mike put out the dog food for him? It appears to be so.
If so, then this speaks to Mike's judgment and character.

Now the question is who currently serves as Mike's mentor? The follower becomes like the leader. Is it pastor with the helicopter? Is it Todd Bentley? Is it another wolf to whom the dog food will be served?

In regard to the "spiritual parenting" of Mike by Tony...Don't adult wolves beget and rear cubs? Are these cubs not also wolves (just not full grown yet)?

I'm sorry but I forgot to mention that when Mike made the announcement that when Casey Treat was coming for the dicipleship conference that the other teacher is going to be prosperity teacher Wendell Smith from City Church. When we went to check up on City Church to find out what they believed we found a site like this one of many past members who became disinchanted with the teachings. Turning Point seems to be surrounding themselves with all the big time prosperity teachers in this area. We found on City Churches site "what we believe" that prosperity is the will of God for every believer and always to be associated with Gods purpose. Mike said the same thing when he did his sermon on money called "Deluge Living in Heaven's (Mike's) Overflow".
I would love to see Mike come on line to defend himself. I was hoping Mike would come back from sabbatical and denounce all this prosperity craziness, but I can now see that is not going to happen. If anything he's plunging head first deeper into this false doctrine. I believe that the word/faith movement, name it, claim it, positive confession, prosperity, etc. is from the pit of hell.
The Bible tells us how to tell who the wolves are. Mathew 7:15, 16 (Life Application Bible) 15. Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are furocious wolves. 16. By their fruit you will recognize them. In the commentary section for verse 15 it says Jesus says to beware of those whose words sound religious but who are motivated by money, fame, or power. First Timothy chapter 6 tells all about false doctrines and in 1Timothy 6:11 But you, man of God, flee from all this, and pursue righteousness, godliness, faith, endurance and gentleness. 2 Timothy 4:3-4 For time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead to suit their own desires they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.
On the lighter side when Mike starts teaching the positive confession I can create my own reality classes at SOMA should I confess my sins before class or after class? I don't want to be too negative.

If prosperity is what God wants for all Christians then why did all...every single one...of the original 12 apostles die penniless? Peter and John are quoted in scripture saying, "SILVER and GOLD have we none, but what we do have we give to you. Get up and walk." They had no money but gave a man who could not walk the ability to walk. THAT is God's prosperity. That is priceless. You cannot put a price tag on that.

Who was the last blind person Mike has given sight to? Who was the last crippled person that Mike was able to make walk? Who is the last dead person whom Mike called back to life? These are the measures of a TRUE apostle. True apostles do the works of God, false apostles pursue the love of money.
True apostles walk humbly with their God; false apostles parade around like peacocks; true apostles live difficult lives as itinerant preachers and are prosecuted and thrown into prisons; false apostles live easy lives taking money and "gifts of honor" from deceived followers.

Which apostle is your apostle?

Every single Deacon, Elder and Staff person who knows the truth and turns a blind eye stands under God's judgment.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/25/2009 01:05PM by TurningPointReject.

Back in the day when I was learning from the "old wineskins"--professors and pastors of sound doctrine--about what made an apostle an apostle in the early church, one of the qualifications was that the apostle had to be an eyewitness of Jesus (Paul qualified because of his experience on the road to Damascus).

What are these self-proclaimed, modern-day apostles claiming their qualifications are to have this lofty distinction?

BTW: About the teaching concerning "old school" believers being "old wineskins" (taught by Mike), I came across this passage in Matthew [after hearing Mike's message(s)] and it struck me as an exceptionally wonderful verse in light of that skewed teaching:

"And [Jesus] said to them, "Therefore every scribe who has become a disciple of the kingdom of heaven is like a head of a household, who brings forth out of his treasure things new and old." Matthew 13:52

It's a BLESSING, not a hindrance, to have been walking with Christ a long time.

*****

I have another curiosity about something I was mulling over today. Does anyone else find it ironic that while these popular teachers and self-proclaimed apostles thrive on the applause of their audiences, they would never conceive of taking any biblical instruction, input, or admonition from them? So if these teachers would not respect the input of one of these listeners/followers, what makes the teacher value the people's applause and admiration? Isn't the applause an opinion from the people whose opinion the teacher does not value? Why isn't the applause as worthless to them as anything else that might come from the "ignorant masses"?

Pride is not logical. It is simply a spectrum of insanity.

Buddy, I'm glad you're "doing your homework," checking up on what you're going to be exposed to when teachers are invited in. (I wish I had been more careful like that along the way.) Keep doing what you're doing--being sober and watchful. Keep paying attention to the "red flags" that come up in your heart and mind. I feel grieved and ashamed that I didn't listen sooner: God was so faithful to give me warnings all along the way.

He is faithful and true. I'm glad you're trusting Him (and not people) to guide you into all truth.

I'll keep you in my prayers.

I hope this is true,I saw it on another site.City church has $500.00 dollar garbage cans and $4000.00 dollar flower pots! Super

Quote
LearningPoint
Back in the day when I was learning from the "old wineskins"--professors and pastors of sound doctrine--about what made an apostle an apostle in the early church, one of the qualifications was that the apostle had to be an eyewitness of Jesus (Paul qualified because of his experience on the road to Damascus).

What are these self-proclaimed, modern-day apostles claiming their qualifications are to have this lofty distinction?

BTW: About the teaching concerning "old school" believers being "old wineskins" (taught by Mike), I came across this passage in Matthew [after hearing Mike's message(s)] and it struck me as an exceptionally wonderful verse in light of that skewed teaching:

"And [Jesus] said to them, "Therefore every scribe who has become a disciple of the kingdom of heaven is like a head of a household, who brings forth out of his treasure things new and old." Matthew 13:52

It's a BLESSING, not a hindrance, to have been walking with Christ a long time.

*****

I have another curiosity about something I was mulling over today. Does anyone else find it ironic that while these popular teachers and self-proclaimed apostles thrive on the applause of their audiences, they would never conceive of taking any biblical instruction, input, or admonition from them? So if these teachers would not respect the input of one of these listeners/followers, what makes the teacher value the people's applause and admiration? Isn't the applause an opinion from the people whose opinion the teacher does not value? Why isn't the applause as worthless to them as anything else that might come from the "ignorant masses"?

Pride is not logical. It is simply a spectrum of insanity.

to answer your question on being and eye witness to Jesus I'm sure all of these new apostles saw passion of the Christ at the movies would that be considered and eye witness account

Quote
buddy
The message was about having joy in our lives and that judging was a joykiller and we shouldn't be judging other people or churches and he wanted to get ride of the whole judgment issue and beging to sow seeds. You can't have joy in the middle of judgment and you must work unity out and get rid of division. Basically, he wants to get ride of the whole judgment issue and be united so they can be truly joyful. Then he says the wolf quote. The only problem is the wolf is already in his midst and he doesn't know it. I will share more at a later time and those who know who I am are welcome to contact me. Buddy

I'm wondering whether (hoping that) Mike, in his sermon on judgment, brought in the balancing perspectives that the Word of God provides about the issue of judging. Here is just one passage, written by the apostle Paul, that clearly demonstrates that there is a valid kind of judging that needs to go on within the body of Christ:

1 Corinthians 5
Immorality Rebuked

1. It is actually reported that there is immorality among you, and immorality of such a kind as does not exist even among the Gentiles, that someone has his father's wife.
2. And you have become arrogant, and have not mourned instead, in order that the one who had done this deed might be removed from your midst.
3. For I, on my part, though absent in body but present in spirit, have already judged him who has so committed this, as though I were present.
4. In the name of our Lord Jesus, when you are assembled, and I with you in spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus,
5. I have decided to deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of his flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
6. Your boasting is not good. Do you not know that a little leaven leavens the whole lump of dough? 7. Clean out the old leaven, that you may be a new lump, just as you are in fact unleavened. For Christ our Passover also has been sacrificed.
8. Let us therefore celebrate the feast, not with old leaven, nor with the leaven of malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.
9. I wrote you in my letter not to associate with immoral people;
10. I did not at all mean with the immoral people of this world, or with the covetous and swindlers, or with idolaters; for then you would have to go out of the world.
11. But actually, I wrote to you not to associate with any so-called brother if he should be an immoral person, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or a swindler not even to eat with such a one.
12. For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Do you not judge those who are within the church?
13. But those who are outside, God judges. Remove the wicked man from among yourselves.

So we are CLEARLY instructed to make important judgments regarding immoral practices (including false teaching, which is deception/lying, I would think) within the church.

ALSO, Jesus himself said that His coming would bring division.

Luke 12
Christ Divides Men
51. "Do you suppose that I came to grant peace on earth? I tell you, no, but rather division;
52. for from now on five members in one household will be divided, three against two, and two against three.
53. "They will be divided, father against son, and son against father; mother against daughter, and daughter against mother; mother-in-law against daughter-in-law, and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law."
54. And He was also saying to the multitudes, "When you see a cloud rising in the west, immediately you say, ‘A shower is coming,’ and so it turns out.
55. "And when you see a south wind blowing, you say, ‘It will be a hot day,’ and it turns out that way.
56. “You hypocrites! You know how to analyze the appearance of the earth and the sky, but why do you not analyze this present time?
57. "And why do you not even on your own initiative judge what is right?”

You may well say that the division comes between believers and nonbelievers. You would be right. But aren't there nonbelievers (wolves, swindlers, people with their own agendas) within the church? YES! In a parable, Jesus said that the enemy has sown tares among the wheat (tares are weeds that look like much like wheat). So THERE WILL BE DIVISION among the tares and the wheat right inside the community of God's people. They simply won't be in agreement, but they will be growing up together in the same field until that final Day of judgment.

To turn away Christians from making any form of judgment is to promote the a lack of distinguishing between the tares and wheat, the true and false, which is an obvious folly and a grave danger.

So please pay attention to the Word. Consider what it says, and then remember: "The end of all things is at hand; therefore, be of sound judgment and sober spirit for the purpose of prayer." (1 Peter 4:7) Pray that God will grant you the ability to see whether or not the tares are encroaching on your life and faith, and if they are, get free!

2 Peter 2
The Rise of False Prophets

1. But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves.
2. And many will follow their sensuality, and because of them the way of the truth will be maligned;
3. and in their greed they will exploit you with false words; their judgment from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep....
12. But these, like unreasoning animals, born as creatures of instinct to be captured and killed, reviling where they have no knowledge, will in the destruction of those creatures also be destroyed,
13. suffering wrong as the wages of doing wrong. They count it a pleasure to revel in the daytime. They are stains and blemishes, reveling in their deceptions, as they carouse with you,
14. having eyes full of adultery and that never cease from sin, enticing unstable souls, having a heart trained in greed, accursed children;
15. forsaking the right way they have gone astray, having followed the way of Balaam, the son of Beor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness,
16. but he received a rebuke for his own transgression; for a dumb donkey, speaking with a voice of a man, restrained the madness of the prophet.
17. These are springs without water, and mists driven by a storm, for whom the black darkness has been reserved.
18. For speaking out arrogant words of vanity they entice by fleshly desires, by sensuality, those who barely escape from the ones who live in error,
19. promising them freedom while they themselves are slaves of corruption; for by what a man is overcome, by this he is enslaved.
20. For if after they have escaped the defilements of the world by the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and are overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first.
21. For it would be better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn away from the holy commandment delivered to them.
22. It has happened to them according to the true proverb, "A dog returns to its own vomit," and, "A sow, after washing, returns to wallowing in the mire."

I have a question for the men in leadership at TPWOC: Are you entangled again in any defilements of the world that you once testified you were free of? If so, why do you think that is? And wouldn't it be nice if there was absolutely NO FORM OF JUDGMENT in the church so you never had to be accountable for your actions/lifestyles as leaders? How VERY CONVENIENT.