ChapDan:

There is no statement that Calvary Chapel is a "cult" made by the Ross Institute.

See [forum.culteducation.com]

And also see [www.culteducation.com]

Calvary Chapel does have a history of problems regarding accountability and the bad behavior of pastors.

See [www.culteducation.com]

Pastors are often accountable to democratically elected church boards that can discipline and if necessary fire them.

There is not an independently audited financial report published and distributed to members that discloses in detail all salaries, expenses and compensation paid out from church funds.

Most Protestant churches have democratically elected church government, denominational oversight and educational requirements. Typically a pastor is a graduate of an accredited college and has seminary training.

In my opinion Calvary Chapel has very serious problems and can be seen as a potentially unsafe church.

The problems go all the way to the top, as Chuck Smith himself is a very controversial leader.

I don't know if its a cult, but its as phony as the day is long. The leadership so called will lie to you right through their teeth about everything and anything as long as it supports their "agenda."

Their agenda is to build a big church, meaning lots of bodies, and people walking down the front ang "getting saved" on sunday morning. All this is supposed to be evidence of what God is doing.

In fact, the whole thing is of men only. That's why they are scared to death of anyone who disagrees with them to the point they give you one chance to "sit in hte pew with your mouth shut" or they summarily throw your butt out lest you "cause division in their church."

They deny this of course and say "if God is behind this, no man can damage it." If this is the case, why are they such liars and cowards? Because what they do at Calvary Chapel is NOT of God. I'd avoid them like the plague if I were you.

Unless you just need a place to sit Sunday morning and hear a sermon and have no plans to get involved or find out what they are in reality. If you just sit there, they'll ignore you, that's the best way. Ignore them when they appeal to you to get involved. If you do you will see what they really are and if you have a brain in your head, you won't like it much.

M

I feel qualified to comment on this subject. I grew up in churches that are the common ones here considered NOT cults.

At age 15 I began to attend Calvary Chapels. I have attended excellent ones and horrible ones, much like most mainline denominations. First, I must say, I have NEVER been asked for money from any Calvary Chapel I attended not enticed to tithe with fancy sermons, etc. Often the reason for changing churches was because of my husband's job relocation.

Redlands Calvary Chapel was my first when Don McClure was pastor and Ed Rea was assistant pastor. I did not know about things like financial accountability back then, so I cannot comment on that subject in this reference. However, the teaching was very sound and there was NO control of our lives. In fact, we worked alongside some famous ministries to cults to go out on the streets with the motive of witnessing to cults with the truth. My heart since has always been very strongly rooted in knowing the signs of cults and helping those trapped.

When Yucaipa Calvary Chapel started up I was one of the original members that helped to form it. We were in the midst of planning out a church plant in Yucaipa from Redlands Calvary Chapel when some guy none of us had ever heard of jumped the gun when he heard about our plans and started it first. His name was Ric Bender. I felt instead of fighting against him, we should just join in and help him. Which we all did. Ric lied to us about his qualifications first of all. He told us he had graduated from the ministry school at CC Costa Mesa. We found out he had only completed his first semester. When people would ask him Bible questions that he did not know the answers, he would give them some ridiculous explanation instead of just admitting, "I don't know." I would be standing there, I did know the answers, as I had been studying for personal growth and ministry for years. He was a liar and puffed up. I had no issues with his wife Nancy, she seemed very humble and sweet. We went to Oden Fong and Romaine with our issues against Ric Bender and he was removed for the church association list for short time as discipline. However, he was permitted to keep the name Calvary Chapel, as they said at that time it was not a denomination so anybody could name their church Calvary Chapel even if they have no association. Needless to say, those of us who knew he was a liar for the sake of being PASTOR, we left the church and went back to Redlands where Ed Rea was head pastor by this time.

From there I went to another church for a time that needed a children's ministry leader and continued serving in this street ministry even while I still attended CC's as well for the sake of some "normal" fellowship.

Years later I attended Phelan Calvary Chapel, where Larry Anderson was pastor. I was not so happy with the teaching there, as they often did not go through the bible verse by verse, but as far as I know there were not issues there either. From there we started driving down the hill to attend the Barn, AKA San Bernardino Calvary Chapel where John Miller was pastor. It took me time to forgive CC San Bernardino, for they had offended me years earlier when I worked in a street ministry to the less desirable. I had brought a bunch of those people to an outdoor concert and it was clear they did not want us there and it hurt me, but I did not realize that the ministry I was working for had other regions that were a BIG PROBLEM. However, once I understood their concerns, even though they were wrong in our case, I could understand their choice. CC San Berdoo was very sound teaching and no control of any sort.

Eventually we moved to Modesto for a very short time and sat under Pastor Damian Kyle. Did not know much about his church, but the teaching was sound and there was no control issues again.

From there we ended up in the Woodlands, TX and sat under Bruce Hollen. There were serious control issues at this church. Bruce Hollen was a control freak and treated his wife as if she was a lesser being. Most of his teaching was fine, but we had to leave when he said things to us that no pastor should dare say to anybody. He seemed to be hiding personal sins that he did not want exposed. He did not like anybody to be transparent and he did not plan to be either. He wanted to keep it a family business, instead of a church in which all serve with their gifts. Unfortunately, there were no other Calvary Chapels close enough to attend faithfully for our family. We visited some of the others in the region, but found out for some reason they would not permit another CC to start up near Bruce Hollen's church, even though a lot of people have left there unhappy about the control issues and want another local CC. I don't understand why CC will not permit another church plant in Conroe, etc. Anyhow, from there we had to find a local church that was not a CC to attend with our family.

First one that we found that taught the word verse by verse that is considered a normal mainline church, also had an issue with control, so we left there. The next church was all about feel good messages and building a big church, but our third try we found a wonderful church to attend until we moved away.

We did live in Oklahoma for a time and attended CC Ark City with Mark Fry as pastor. I have to say it was an outstanding church. Once a year the church had an open financial accountability meeting during a Sunday Service in which they showed what all had came in and where it went and gave the congregation an opportunity for input. Pastor Mark Fry had no issues with control and in fact plants new churches constantly knowing it means he loses a chunk of his church to go make that plant and thus a chunk of the tithe. Yet, his heart truly is all about Jesus and His glory.

We now live in Northern California, between San Francisco and Sacramento. All three of the CC's we have tried here have been very good and again are open in their financial accountability. We attend only one of them now, and the teaching is sound and there is no control issue.

I do want to say that sometimes people for their "own" reasons become overly involved in any church. Whether it is in hopes of seeing somebody they have a crush on, or trying to overcome a habitual sin (stronghold) in their life, etc.

I have never known any CC that requires that kind of participation as to which you are describing. Even the worst ones I attended never expected anything like that. The street ministry I served in did encourage that kind of participation, that was to keep the people busy with their time that they were used to spending on partying, drugs, gangs, crime, etc. Strongholds often require that kind of regimented protocol to overcome.

I also have to say that I know of a few CC's, as well as many other churches that do tend to be more into a family business instead of allowing God to call those who are to serve in leadership. This is becoming a problem in most church denominations across the board now. And I agree, it is WRONG.

As far as the education goes of pastors, I fully agree that anybody that the Lord calls can be a pastor with or without a seminary degree. I have visited many churches that have pastors with seminary degrees that preach cotton candy or their own agenda and not the Word of God.

Calvary Chapel does encourage bible college and has a ministry school too. Both are excellent resources. I have attended CC Bible College and also went to another (unaffiliated to CC) bible college to finish up my bachelors. I am now in the midst of working on my Masters. None of this makes me better than anybody else called to ministry to serve Him. I continue to serve in Family and Children's Ministry in the way which the Lord has called me.

Calvary Chapel does not usually volunteer input as far as counsel into your life, unless you seek it. Then they will tell you according to the Word of God what they believe is wisdom. If your boyfriend had been in sexual sin with you at any point, then yes, they would probably encourage him to distance himself from you until he can put God first in his life, instead of his own choices, unless you too are seeking God first. Even then, they would encourage you two not to spend time alone so that you do not fall back into sin. I have no idea if this is the case, but I am just throwing out a common issue in today's culture.

SweetBrat7:

The consistent issue with Calvary seems to be meaningful accountability.

Calvary pastors are not typically accountable to a democratically elected church board that serves fixed terms. That is, a board that can discipline and if necessary fire a pastor.

There also doesn't seem to be much consistent and meaningful financial transparency, through detailed published annual budgets, which disclose in detail all salaries, expenses and compensation paid out from church funds.

The lack of uniform educational standards, as you cited, for pastors is also a persistent problem.

Most Protestant churches don't have these problems.

Calvary has a history of serious problems related directly to these issues.

From what you say all the warning signs are in place at your CC. Authoritarianism, elitism, painful exit process. That accountability stuff is downright creepy. I've read about people in very cultish groups at Provender who were made to confess sins to their shepherds and whatnot and this sounds eerily similar. The shunning behavior after you were out also sounds very cult-like. It's too bad because I did like listening to Bob Coy back in the day and hoped at least his Calvary was different. Guess not.

like I said, you wanna be a pew potatoe and stay out of their way you'll be fine, just don't take a close look at them. I still love Pastor Chuck and would sit under him if I lived out there but these churches have individual authority and no central authority or a very loose one. You disagree with them and the gloves come off, I don't care how close you think you are to them, they care about one thing only, getting people to walk down the isle and church growth and they let nothing stand in the way, including the truth.

FattyZ

Quote
rrmoderator

In my opinion Calvary Chapel has very serious problems and can be seen as a potentially unsafe church.

The problems go all the way to the top, as Chuck Smith himself is a very controversial leader.

"Unsafe Church" is an understatement!

Chuck Smith adds to the book of Revelation in his publication called "What the World is Coming To". He also encourages others to add to Revelation. This is very damnable, rotten fruit. Smith is a false teacher and a false prophet. His "accountability problems" really stem from a rotten root!

And I seriously doubt that any of Calvary Chapels "shepherds" have gone on record calling out Smith on his evil. Here is one of Smiths choice quotes where he gives the reader encouragement when adding to Revelation:

"One of the two witnesses is Elijah. The identity of the other witness is a mystery. It is probably Moses or Enoch or, perhaps, Zerubbabel. God spoke to Zerubbabel concerning the relationship of the olive trees and the two candlesticks. It could even be John the Baptist. However, these identities are just suggestions. You can put your own theory in here if you desire." -- Chuck Smith, What the World is Coming To.

Smith violates Revelation 22:18-19:

For I testify unto every man that hears the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall ADD unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: and if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book

Jesus warns about false prophets such as Smith, and millions of CC'ers are totally oblivious, blaming such discrepancies on "every church has problems", etc.

15"Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves.
16By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?
17Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit.
18A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.
21"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
22Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?'
23Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!' Matt 7

I would consider any organization that adds and subtracts on Revelation, and teaches others to do it also, a bonifide CULT. They are actually doing the work of the devil in getting people to partake of the last forbidden fruit of the whole Bible. The other cults I have found adding and subtracting from Revelation are the Jehovah Witnesses, Mormons, and Seventh-day Adventists. I bet there are others.

Hope this doesn't sound too preachy for the moderator!