Are you talking about the Calvary Chapel, Fort Lauderdale. I knew of people like that when I attended there.

Quote
dradioz
Are you talking about the Calvary Chapel, Fort Lauderdale. I knew of people like that when I attended there.

Are you asking me?

No. I am talking about a different CC. I think, I have heard enough negative stuff to believe that there's something substantially wrong with this denomination as a whole. To me the fact that it is an issue raised by so many (including the owners of this forum) is more telling than anything anyone will say in defense to it.

The way I see it is actually very simple. If you grew up in healthy home, you would probably end up being an emotionally healthy individual. If you grew up in a troubled home, you would have to deal with the negative consequences of being raised there for the rest of your life.

So... why would anyone want to attend an unhealthy or questionable church? They will have to deal with the negative consequences of going there later on for many months and years. I'd stay away from a church that raises red flags altogether.

I remember listening to Chuck Smith's radio program where he taught the Bible line by line. Yeah, there were questionable things in his teachings, but there was still good stuff there too.

The issue with Chuck seems to be his demeanor within Calvary Chapel, where it's Chuck's way or the highway. That's a bit disturbing.

Calvary Chapel has always attracted a unhealthy frindge of individuals. But Jesus hung around with some unhealthy types as well. Church is for screw-ups like me. If you are looking for a 100% healthy church setting. stay home. Calvary Chapel on a whole is a good organization. There are several issues that I disagree with Calvary strongly about. They have the LordShip mentality. They have an exclusivity doctrine. You can lose your salvation at CC. You need to be operational in the gifts. The biggest problem I had with them is their requirement for leaders to attend a getaway function, It involved not letting your loved ones know where you are going for a spiritual retreat. That was the scarry part of my involvement. It included only men and you had no contact with the outside world for three days.
It was supposed to get you in a "Spiritual Infusion". They would not tell you where you were going and you could only contact loved ones if it was an emergency.

See [www.culteducation.com]

Calvary Chapel and Chuck Smith have a history of serious problems.

Many of the problems boil down to lack of meaningful accountability, i.e. through democratically elected church boards that can discipline and if need be fire a pastor.

There also is typically no meaningful financial transparency, through detailed annual and audited reports the disclose all salaries, expenses and compensation.

There are also no educational requirements, such as an accredited college degree and seminary.

Jesus said many would come in his name, but he would not know them.

Paul was critical of controlling manipulative leaders in Galatians.

The New Testament teaches that deacons, elders and evangelists should be held accountable by other believers.

Thankfully the overwhelming majority of churches don't have problems like Calvary Chapel.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 08/29/2008 05:25AM by rrmoderator.

I was apart of Calvary Chapel from '91 to '94ish and some of the problems I had with my specific Calvary Chapel were lack of oversight, no deacons/elders, and accountablity. I also don't like the revolving door policy as I view a pastor as a sheperd not just a teacher. In my opinion, this led to most of the problems I had at my church because the Pastor really didn't care too much about your life. If he did he never showed it. Another issue is when one pastor becomes popular. Once you stroke the ego it seems to be easy pickins for Satan.

I don't think it is a destructive church by any means and many of them are different from one another. When you get the size of Calvary you're going to have problems one way or another.

As for the rrmoderator and the educational requirements.... Calvary Chapel's view is that an accredited college degree or seminary doesn't mean awhole lot with the Lord or his ability to use you-so why need one?

I am new here and the things that I'm reading here are exactly what we are experiencing right now. We just left our Calvary after six years. And I mean just as in we've only been gone a couple of days and we're still very raw. We prayed over our decision for several weeks and tried to let the Lord examine us every way we could think of. We were even willing to stay if that's what He told us to do. He didn't so my husband had a meeting with the pastor, asst. pastor and the other elder (dh was an elder as well).

He told them what his issues were; lack of real accountability and integrity in managing church affairs. That didn't go over so well. :) I think I'm still trying to sort all of this out. We spent more than six years there and were a very intregal part of the body. He was an elder, I taught women's bible study and some of our retreats, we were in charge of children's ministry and did whatever else we could to help. When he told them our reasons he was told they weren't valid biblical reasons to leave and we would be hurting the body in a far more serious way than they were being hurt by the supposed issues we had. He was told that the issues weren't a big deal and he was overreacting and that this would cause division. He was also told he had never brought up any of this stuff in the past and that this was out of the blue, that they'd never had a chance to address things. My husband pointed out several issues he'd brought up and that when he'd brought them up they'd brushed him off as not being spiritual, being critical, lacking faith and being divisive. Then he was told, "Well I'm trying to change and you can't hold all that old stuff against me!" My husband told him he wasn't mad, he'd let it go and wasn't bitter against them but that this was a pattern that obviously wasn't broken yet and he couldn't stand up and say he supported the decisions being made when he didn't.

I don't know what my purpose is in posting this here. Maybe I'm just feeling alone and hurting because this is still so fresh. Maybe I just want to feel like I'm not crazy and that these were valid issues. I know how it works when someone leaves because we (I'm ashamed to admit) joined them in bashing those who've gone before us. Actually, part of our leaving was the conviction we'd come to feel over own behavior. I know we've hurt them though and that's tough because we really do love the people we've left behind.

I'm sorry to sign on and make my first post be so messy but we've lost everyone we were friends with and this board gave me a little encouragement that I wasn't as alone as I feel.

Hi. I've been silently just reading this forum for some time because it helps to know that our family wasn't the only one to go through these things. I found the Lord while attending a Calvary Chapel years ago and my fiirst understanding of the Bible came in its context. We ended up in other nondenominational churches and then a few years ago, our local church became a Calvary Chapel.

Ny husband also was an elder. We hadn't placed a great emphasis on church government, so when the new pastor wanted to do away with board meetings and make them prayer meetings, we were okay with that. It seemed spiritual. I had been excited when the new pastor came because I had visions of returning to my early eager Christian experiences, and I read into everything he said and did what I wanted to see and hear.

I was thrilled by verse by verse preaching and felt it was the only way preaching should be done. But I didn't notice the elitism creeping in. I began to see our church as the only church in town really preaching the gospel, really caring about the poor and lost. Before long, I was just like a Pharisee and didn't realize it, condemning other churches for being less committed, etc.

It didn't take long before issues began to surface. The pattern was this: The pastor would take a gray area or an item not directly covered by scripture, take a "bold" stand on it. Then the congregation had to choose wihether to follow the authority of the pastor or not. These tests kept repeating with various consequences. The issues? Whether or not to hold a Halloween alternative party (No. The only proper Christian response is to cower in the dark with the lights off) Whether the kids should keep going in the custody of responsible adults across the street to a park in a safe, quiet neighborhood (No. They might get hit by a car and the church could be sued.) Whether Sunday school teachers should be forced to take attendance with stickers (yes, the pastor's wife insists on it) Whether monthly potlucks should continue (No, they are distracting from the true emphasis of the gospel and people who like them are not spiritual) etc.

Each of these and many other issues were accompanied by demands to obey pastoral authority. Nothing, no matter how small, was allowed to be suggested by anyone else. The pastor also tried to become the center of the worship team, insisting on playing his 12-string guitar front and center without practicing. The rule had always been that if you didn't show for practice you didn't play Sunday. The pastor wouldn't put himself under the authority of a worship leader, and in principle refused to practice. His guitar was out of tune and my boys who played on the team would tune their instruments to his out-of-tune guitar to try to preserver harmony.

When he started preaching against people from the pulpit, my husband tried to intervene without success. The pastor literally ran from the building rather than hear criticism, and my husband is a very gentle, diplomatic critic. The other elder left with his family.

The anti-potluck sermon was preached against my friend. Her husband who had finally become interested in church and was listening to the pastor's sermons on his long road trips, was nearly at a turning point in his life when the pastor preached against him. I took the pastor's part, thinking that, yeah, potlucks aren't anything to hang onto when you take eternity into consideration, not realizing this was all power play.

Then came the bouncers. Yes. Church bouncers. The worship leader was very patient with this grandstanding Elvis wanne be pastor, but after a while, when the pastor kept turning up his own microphones and turning down everyone else's, the worship leader couldn't take any nore. He wrote a letter and left. He was not the first. The bass player wanted an honest answer this time about why the worship leader left, but the pastor only said that some people weren't cut out for the church. The bass player then listed a bunch of things the pastor needed to consider, in a calm voice and then walked out.

Two weeks later when his wife came to church, the pastor's wife asked two men (not the remaining elder) to escort this grandmother out of church.

They also asked another woman to leave because she held pro-abortion views. She did not teach or hold any position in the church, just came and listened each week but she was asked to leave.

When we heard about these ejections, my husband knew the pastor had to be confronted. Also, his contract was up for renewal, but he would not allow any meetings, not even the state-required congregational meeting to keep tax exempt status. (For that one he held a substitutionary prayer meeting for one woman's back that went on and on to keep from doing any business that might prove embarrassing [the woman's back was not healed either for all that praying!]) So with all the many families upset they needed to have a meeting and get some church business done. At the next prayer meeting, my husband showed up and was met by the pastor and now three bouncers.

They physically blocked the sidewalk and refused to let us into the church. This was too much for my normally calm, patient husband. He gripped the pastor's shoulders and yelled at him about all that he had done to the church. It was rather a bleak moment. Needless to say, we were kicked out.

Now, most of what had been that church, including the entire worship team meets at a different church. There are still a few caught in the manipulation and power play of that church, but I don't think even they will be there long.

We learned that he ran two other churches into the ground before moving here. The trouble is, Calvary Chapel's top down authority view makes it easy for people with personailty defects to hold sway over battered sheep. I think they even gravitate to Calvary so they can avoid criticism and confrontation.

Anyway, it has been more than two years and I still have residual effects. For months I would cringe if I saw a car like the pastor's in town. I couldn't drive near our old church. I've had to rethink how I hear from God because under that pastor I was taught that everything is a sign from God. And that God is always positive toward you no matter what you do. It was enchanting, but wrong. Trhing to get a better understanding of how God speaks to me is diffiicult.

Fortunately, none of the abused turned away from God, as far as I know, and most are seeing fulfilled in our new church the very things promised but never realized in our old one. We actually support missionaries and see new faces weekly and get on fire for reaching people in various ways.

Anyway, it takes a long, long time, but just remember that this is a COMMON experience in churches and it doesn't mean there is anything wrong with you. You don't have to prove to your pastor that God approves of you. For too long, my pastor's opinion meant more than God's. That's wrong and it's over! You're free, free, free and eventually you'll feel free.

One more thing. I know what you mean about bashing others. When my friend left over the potluck sermon directed at her and her husband, I called her a wimp. I told her how terrible she'd feel if she ran into members at the store, etc. I didn't realize at the time I was pouring on the abuse, but I was. Fortunately, we joined her at her church and she has totally forgiven me. There has been lots of reconciliation. Some of the former bouncers are now attending our new church and they tried to apologize to me like I had done to her.. God is so good! He heals and it's wonderful. Every time a new Calvary Chapel family shows up at church it's like another birth in the family.

He restores what the cankerworm has taken

A cult? Really, that's what you're saying, Calvary Chapel is a cult?

I've been a member of many different churches, including Calvary Chapel. Yes, Calvary Chapel is lacking in church government (by design) which can lead to abuses of power by the pastor, if the pastor is not careful and not lead by God. But in no ways is it a cult, or maybe we disagree on the term cult itself.

I've read posts about lighting, rock bands, and pastors making arbitrary decisions, but I've also experienced most of these similar "problems" in the current Baptist Church of which I attend. Why do we have to go out of our way to criticize Calvary Chapel? Labeling them a cult shows very little Christian love, and is pretty high on the judgemental scale.

Let me also address the issue of a seminary degree. It is not required in Calvary Chapel to have a Seminary Degree, quite true. Here's something you fail to mention: Many evangelical denominations have the same policy. You make think I am mistaken, as I myself didn't believe this to be true just three years ago. I was on the pastoral search committee to replace our fantastic pastor. Our pastor (no seminary degree) accepted the position of President of Union Gospel Mission in Minnesota. During the search, the denomination (Evangelical Free Church) gave us several options, of which another pastor without a seminary degree was possible. This is the denomination of Chuck Swindol; now, is anyone out there going to say he and the Evangelical Free Churches are a cult? I didn't think so. Also, my current pastor was a former youth director and senior pastor of a 400+ member Southern Baptist Convention Church, and, yes you guessed it, he has no seminary degree.

And as far as Calvary Chapel is concerned, the pastor of the church I attended did have a seminary degree. And most of the senior pastors I met had seminary degrees. Look up any decent sized Calvary Chapel Church and research the pastor for yourself. More likely than not, the fellow has a seminary degree, and if not, is most certainly working towards one. By the way, I'm a Chaplain in the Federal Government service (and currently seeking a seminary degree --MDiv -- but that doesn't qualify me to lead a church, the Holy Spirit guiding my life does!). The government hired the most qualified man it could to conduct a Chaplain Academy. They hired a pastor/chaplain from a San Diego area Calvary Chapel. This pastor has a seminary degree from Fuller Seminary and teaches part time at Azuza Pacific, while also being a pastor, and a full-time Chaplain for the San Diego Fire Department and the San Diego Harbor Police, as well as teach seminars like mine. He was also on the national chaplains list for deployment, and was responsible for responding to New York durning 9/11 (they get assigned different months, and Sept. 2001 was his assigned month). He is also the kind of person whom is humble, but I mention him as an example.

What really makes Calvary Chapel different? The expository teaching of the Bible. They are a Bible believing, Bible teaching group. Their sermons are typically an in-depth Bible study and they continue where they left off from the previous week. Their idea is to go through whole books of the Bible in this manner in order to get ALL that God is trying to say. Not topical sermons made by man, but verse by verse readings of God's Word, explained and examined. And I for one, love them for it. I grew up in a denomination that fought over the inerrancy of the Bible, many believing it to contain myths, and then began to allow for gay pastors...and Calvary Chapel is the cult?! If you are for Christ, I am for you! By the way, read the essays by Dr. Halley in Halley's Bible Handbook and you will also get the arguement for expository preaching. I believe you can also have good topical sermons, but do enjoy the expository preaching as well.

Another thing that makes Calvary Chapel different is it's approachability. Dress codes, old forms of worship, etc., while maybe charished by some, are not used at Calvary Chapel. Calvary Chapels are designed to attract the lost to Christ, and are not as focused on maintaining church traditions. Many other denominational churches use "contemporary" styles as well. I'm not sure why this is an issue for some, but I doubt I'll ever change anyones mind when I say that "It's about worshiping God. It's an issue of the heart. God wants you to worship Him, and he doesn't care the year the song was written or the kind of pants you are wearing."

So Calvary Chapel isn't for everybody, and maybe it's not for you, but it isn't a cult.

These pastors follow Christ. These pastors, and others, from many denominations are my brothers in Christ. I'm ashamed when any pastor from any church oversteps his bounds...but that sort of thing saddly happens in every denomination, and does not automatically qualify all the other churches for culthood.

I am ashamed to read this post grouping roughly a thousand churches of Calvary Chapel into cult status because you don't like their form of church government. Shame on you. There is a lot of good information on this sight about cults, but let's not get out of control. You don't have to go to a Calvary Chapel. But there is no question in my mind that the Holy Spirit has used this church, that this church serves His purpose, and I will not be a part of opposing it or tearing it down.

Let there be peace.