Calvary pastors are not "Jesus," nor are they apostles. I did not say the preachers of calvery were Jesus. I am just saying that because one person is bad , it does not mean all the rest are bad. For instance, I know a baptist paster, that was a counseler also. He went to college. He was married, and was having sex at the church , with another woman than his wife. When no one was there. His wife found out , split and left. Then he married his lover. I know a luthern minister and his wife go to nudist camps. I know a penticost preacher that abuses his family and wife. Also took peoples full check leaving them with nothing. Now how about the ones we heard of in the news? They all went to college. How about Joel Olsten, he charges $10.00 to hear him preach. Then there is Joyce Meyers , who begs for money, in the mail. What happened to the faith that is suppose to be left in Gods hand to provide? Just because a person goes to college it does not make them , good enough to do the lords work. I also know people who are better at telling and teaching about God, That never went to college. Why, because they read the bible. Do what God recommends of them. Because they want to see Jesus. yes, I know there were requirements outlined within the New Testament for deacons, elders and evangelists. I do know in the bible it says drunkiness is a form of sin, not a illness. What God commands Christians regarding alcohol is to avoid drunkenness (Ephesians 5:18). The Bible condemns drunkenness and its effects (Proverbs 23:29-35). Christians are also commanded to not allow their bodies to be “mastered” by anything (1 Corinthians 6:12; 2 Peter 2:19). Drinking alcohol in excess is undeniably addictive. Scripture also forbids a Christian from doing anything that might offend other Christians or might encourage them to sin against their conscience (1 Corinthians 8:9-13). In light of these principles, it would be extremely difficult for any Christian to say he is drinking alcohol to the glory of God (1 Corinthians 10:31). Drunkenness and addiction are sin. However, due to the Biblical concerns regarding alcohol and its effects, due to the easy temptation to over-consumption of alcohol, and due to the possibility of causing pelicangrl
– it is usually best for a Christian to abstain entirely from drinking alcohol.
It is a thought up excuse making it a disease. They are sinning. That enough alone should make one want to quit, if they are really trying to do right by God. Can a person really honestly say, that because someone goes to church, they are never bad? [...]

eyrishroses:

Judging people and their personal problems and preaching are not allowed here per the rules, which agreed to before posting at this message board.

Please refrain from both.

Some of your comments have been edited out.

This thread is about Calvary Chapel. Try staying focused on that subject.

Also, please don't make this a thread about AA and alcoholism.

eyerishroses:

Lutheran and Pentecostal Assemblies of God ministers have accountability to their denominations, educational requirements and are accountable to their congregations through boards and financial transparency.

Calvary pastors have none of these standards or safeguards, which is probably a major reason why Calvary Chapels continue to have so many problems.

If you wish to attend a church where the pastor has no meaningful accountability or educational requirements to be ordained that's your choice.

But the overwhelming majority of Protestants do not.

I attend a small Community Church with a Lutheran pastor. He is kind and understanding. I can tell him anything about my life and not be shunned at church. My BF cannot be honest with the people there about his life outside Calvary Chapel, or they would not even be friends with him. It's sad, as it should be about unconditional love. After all, none of us are perfect.

I've been attending Calvary Chapel for about 6 years now. Nothing I see or have experienced can be considered cultish. The Bible tells us that we are to test EVERYTHING against the Word of God. My Calvary Chapel (Fort Lauderdale - Pastor Bob) follows the Bible. If it is not in the Bible, they do not practice it.

What kind of cult church doesn't ask for money or pass an offering plate? In our church, tithing is taught on once a year. Offering plates are not passed. There are little boxes in the back that you may, if you wish, donate money indescretely.

Yes, there have been some people that have been asked to leave the church, but they are given the opportunity to come back, when, and if, they have the approval of the church. Asked to leave for backsliding? No. But the people that I have seen that have been asked to leave - one made sexual advances on a woman, the other one was listed with the local police department as a sexual predator. When a church opens its doors to anyone, some "bad" eggs are bound to get in. The church is only trying to protect the people that go - which is reasonable. But when these "bad" eggs do get in, I can only pray that they receive some spiritual guidance to put them on the correct path, for God's word will not return void.

I challenge anyone to list why Calvary Chapel would be considered a cult. And please list the Biblical references that contradicts Calvary Chapel

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pelicangrl
I attend a small Community Church with a Lutheran pastor. He is kind and understanding. I can tell him anything about my life and not be shunned at church. My BF cannot be honest with the people there about his life outside Calvary Chapel, or they would not even be friends with him. It's sad, as it should be about unconditional love. After all, none of us are perfect.

Maybe your BF is too embarrased to admit his life outside the church - which is not good. Unless someone is open and honest, they cannot receive the help that they need. Only God can forgive sin, but it's up to the person to admit and turn away from that sin. Maybe the people at Calvary, if they knew the truth, could point him in the right direction. And if they are true Christians, they would not abandon friendship with them, for every one person is guilty of sin (Romans 3:23)

It's true what you say, no one is perfect. That is why the Bible says to "imitate Christ" and not to look to other people as the standard for living.

ohlinger:

Is Calvary ever wrong?

Or is it always the congregant that must somehow be to blame?

Is there an independently audited financial report for your church that details all expenses, salaries and compensation?

Does Pastor Bob have a accredited college and seminary degree?

Is there a democratically elected board voted upon by the general membership at your church that can discipline and if necessary fire Pastor Bob?

Quote
rrmoderator
ohlinger:

Is Calvary ever wrong?

Or is it always the congregant that must somehow be to blame?

Is there an independently audited financial report for your church that details all expenses, salaries and compensation?

Does Pastor Bob have a accredited college and seminary degree?

Is there a democratically elected board voted upon by the general membership at your church that can discipline and if necessary fire Pastor Bob?

I can only speak for the specific church that I attend:
1) Is Calvary ever wrong? Doctrinally, supported by Scripture. Might there be some things that are said that people may disagree with? Maybe, but it is not doctinally explicit to jeapardize salvation (such as Mormons or Jehovah Witnesses). People are free to disagree on subjects such as baptism (immersion vs sprinkle), Calvanism vs Armenism (sp?). But none of these difference jeapardize salvation.

2) Or is it always the congregant that must somehow be to blame?
Pastors are people to. Born with original sin and being continually sanctified day by day. Only Jesus is without sin. Therefore, all men have the potential to be "wrong" or sin.

3) Is there an independently audited financial report for your church that details all expenses, salaries and compensation? ECFA Accountability with open books

4) Does Pastor Bob have a accredited college and seminary degree?
No, but neither did Apostle Paul, nor any of the early church leaders

5) Is there a democratically elected board voted upon by the general membership at your church that can discipline and if necessary fire Pastor Bob? A board composed on church elders and deacons (which are approved/disapproved by the congregation) and a lay businessman reserve the right to discipline/fire based on Matthew 18 Scripture.

Hope this helps!

ohlinger:

You seemed to avoid some questions.

Has Pastor Bob, Calvary or Chuck Smith every been wrong about anything you can think of?

Be specific.

Your pastor is not the "Apostle Paul" and the overwhelming majority of Protestant pastors today have been prepared, educated and tested through college and seminary. But thanks for admitting that yours has not been.

"Open books"?

That's not the same as an independently audited and published financial report.

So your church doesn't publish such a report and distribute it to members?

So you are saying that you and other members really don't know what Pastor Bob's salary is or total compensation?

How is the board you describe chosen? Isn't there a slate that is voted upon by the entire membership to regular terms of office?

Can the board fire Pastor Bob?

Quote
rrmoderator
ohlinger:

You seemed to avoid some questions.

Has Pastor Bob, Calvary or Chuck Smith every been wrong about anything you can think of?

Be specific.

Your pastor is not the "Apostle Paul" and the overwhelming majority of Protestant pastors today have been prepared, educated and tested through college and seminary. But thanks for admitting that yours has not been.

"Open books"?

That's not the same as an independently audited and published financial report.

So your church doesn't publish such a report and distribute it to members?

So you are saying that you and other members really don't know what Pastor Bob's salary is or total compensation?

How is the board you describe chosen? Isn't there a slate that is voted upon by the entire membership to regular terms of office?

Can the board fire Pastor Bob?

Avoidance of any questions was not intentional. The questions that you just asked above were not in your original post,

Have the pastors been wrong doctinally or scripturally? As I've stated before, we are told to test what we hear by the Scriptures. Although opinions on passages may differ, I've seen nor heard of anything that is not doctrinally sound. Admittedly, once or twice over the past 6 years I've seen something that I thought was prideful, but who doesn't sin? I disagree with Chuck Smith in his opinion that Ezekiel 38 occurs prior to the tribulation period, b/c in the Book of Revelation it clearly states that Gog & Magog battle after the Millenial Kingdom. But do these disagreements have any impact on salvation? No.

For financial accountability, refer to ECFA.org. At this time, the church office is closed so I cannot determine if I can access the records.

I stated in the original reply that the board can discipline or fire Pastors according to Matthew 18.

Pastor Bob has 22 Assistant Pastors, most of which have a seminary degree. I am guessing that you don't believe that the Holy Spirit can adequately guide someone without the need for a human teacher? Is that in the Bible? As to this subject, and the remaining questions you have, I'm not entirely sure and without the office being open and I do not want to give you an incorrect answer.

Regardless of any answer, I've asked that you back up your questions (or problems) with Calvary Chapel with specific Biblical references. Anything else is extra-Biblical and therefore, can be considered Legalism. Legalism, in Christian theology, is a pejorative term referring to an improper fixation on law or codes of conduct, or legal ideas, usually implying an allegation of misguided rigor, pride, superficiality, the neglect of mercy, and [u:ff004dabd4]ignorance of the grace [/u:ff004dabd4]of God. Legalism is alleged against any view that law, not faith in God's grace, is the pre-eminent principle of redemption. The book of Galations specifically deals with legalism in the early church. However, conversly, the current practices of Calvary Fort Lauderdale can be backed up by Scriptural references.

Again, contrary to many "cults", I want to affirm that my attendance is not monitored, I don't have to commit to any financial giving, and no one follows me home or shows up at my doorstep asking if I've sinned (or solicits money).

And no, we do not do snake handling...
That's next month...
:-}