Quote
Imjustme
Mile2,
I did respond about the C.G. Hunt book, but it apparently did not get posted.
I said this is, indeed, a serious charge, but before I dump the beliefs I've held
for 37 years I would like more information about the author.
What is his full name? I did some cursory investigating, and I can only find this
one book to his credit. Has he written other biographies? I would like to read a
summary of his politics, so to speak, an author profile. I am a published author
myself, and I know this information should be provided for any legitimate
writer.
I assume the author conducted extensive interviews with Thieme, and they are
cited in his work? This is standard procedure for a biographer of a living subject.
If he did not include verbatim quotations by Thieme, his biography is bunk.
It is highly irregular for a liar of the magnitude that you claim Thieme is to lie
to his congregation for years, then spill his guts to be printed in a book, is it
not?
The reason I ask these questions, among other things, is that I find it odd that
anyone would choose to write a book about a minister that is relatively obscure,
from a church that just a relative handfull of Christians have ever heard of, and
if they have, they could care less? Either this man is an ardent admirer of Thieme,
or just another heckler. He certainly didn't write it for profit, which is the motive
almost every author on earth would have, else he would have selected a famous
man to write about, like Billy Graham, or the like.
A few of the statements you made about this book raised a red flag in my mind;
So what if Thieme Sr. was a salesman? So what if he moved into a triplex? These
facts, if true, prove nothing. The richest man I know, personally, had millions, but
lived in the same nondescript house in Bellaire, Texas, and drove a rusted out Buick
the whole time I knew him (He was a silent partner in my father's real estate
business). Unless you knew his parents left him a chunk of the Permian Basin, the
richest oil country in the world, and he married a Stratton (heir of the Briggs and
Stratton fortune) you would think he was just a "man of modest means". Fact is,
he was just a penny pinching old putz.
Wikipedia cites that the Thiemes moved to Beverly Hills when they inherited a large
family estate. This would also support what I just said. Thieme Sr.'s occupation would
be of no consequence. Bob Thieme's uncle founded Lincoln National Life Insurance
in Fort Wayne, Indiana (where Theime was born). His name was Arthur Hunt. I don't
know where the inheritance came from, but this is one very likely source.
It also occured to me that Mr. C.G.Hunt may also be a relative of Arthur, and one very
feasable reason he wrote this book was because he was cut out of the will. I don't know,
but as I said, I need many questions answered before I embrace this book as factual
and unbiased. At this point there is good reason to hold this book as highly suspect.
I hope this response satisfies your post. I will look into this matter, I assure you, as
I am understandably concerned if Bob is a liar.
TO IMJUSTME:
Not that I think you are going to reply, but I suspect strongly that you are still reading:
Let me begin responding to your post above with some comments on Hunt's unauthorized biography of Bob Thieme Jr.
FIRST,
When I found out that RBT Jr. was suffering from Alzheimer's and was no longer teaching, I thought, how sad. He never wrote his memoirs or an autobiography. He will be taking all his memoirs to his grave, except for what he shared with close friends and family. The rest of us will never know any details. So being very naive and new to being on the "outside" I innocently went on to a very large popular discussion group OF PRO-THIEMERS over on Delphi. {for those who are interested, it is called BIBLE DOCTRINE STUDY GROUP} I posted a suggestion that Bob ought to have an official biography to give his account of his life so all of his followers can have it to enjoy.
NOT SO! Our leader is too dedicated to studying and teaching to waste his time with an autobiography! {Besides it is too late, and that was my whole point.} How about one written by a follower? NOPE. WE KNOW HE WOULD NOT WANT THAT, IT WOULD DETRACT FROM THE THRUST OF HIS MINISTRY, which was STUDY AND TEACH, STUDY AND TEACH. NOTHING else. I was firmly put in my place for ever thinking such an UNHOLY thought.
So what does that leave except "unauthorized" accounts that anyone who wants to write is free to write? This is still America and they are free to do so. One must start somewhere, and it seems to me that C.G. Hunt has made an honest beginning. I have read excerpts and have the book itself on the way to me as I type this message. Every writer has to have A FIRST BOOK and because it is first does not make it invalid. From what I do know of its contents, he said straight out that this was to be strictly factual material glathered from public documents available to anyone who cares to look for them. He specifically said that he included NO INTERVIEWS WITH ANYONE to avoid personal prejudices, I presume either the PRO or the CON kind.
So what is wrong with looking up public documents and putting together a bio from them? Who would give a rip? If there is nothing to hide, there can be no foul. On the other hand, if some assertions have been made by the subject of the biography that contradict public records, there is ample reason to shout foul. Now just who is prejudiced here, you or Hunt? If you have not read any of it, how can you be so sure it is terrible and a lie? How do you lie about public records?
Nobody {except Jesus} has led an absolutely stellar, spotless life in its entirety, including Thieme or any of his relatives. As far as I can tell, there are NO UNVERIFIABLE ASSERTIONS in this book. If there have been any exaggerations or misreprentations about his history by Bob Thieme regarding things for which there is a public record paper trail, then it ought to be made known and to be SPREAD AS WIDELY AS WERE THE ORIGINAL CLAIMS. That is the Biblical way of correcting a misrepresntation.
On the other hand, truths Bob related about his history would be confirmed. And that too is a good thing.
One thing that mightily surprised me about Thieme's military record was that he was never in combat. Another was that his WWII record indicates he was a staff officer in the USA the whole time. He wrote a TRAINING MANUAL for the Army Air Corps cadets, and STANDARDIZED the training throughout the whole program. And THIS is ALL. He hastened to get his highest rank put in for at the last minute before the war ended and his service was terminated. Anyone probably would have done the same, except that they did not continually use their rank as a personal badge in their careers afterwards, especially if they became a pastor. His entire church was militarized and so was his teaching. We do see military references and metaphors in the New Testament, but we DO NOT SEE THIS BEING MADE A MODEL of how churches are to be run. The New Testament church is called the BODY OF CHRIST, not the ARMY of Christ.
Now this record shows a good organizer and adequate service and an honorable discharge. He did serve in the subsequent conflicts of Korea and maybe even Viet Nam, but I have not found out yet the nature or location of this service, but I expect to when the Hunt bio arrives. But Bob's life was never in danger and he was no hero. AND THAT WAS A SHOCK TO ME having heard Bob gush about his military service for so many years on his tapes and books. OTHER PASTORS SERVED ALSO AND THEY DID NOT INSIST ON BEING CALLED "COLONEL" by their churches later in their professional careers as ministers of the Gospel. That is UNUSUAL to say the least.
Now for responses to your post:
YOU SAID:
What is his full name? I did some cursory investigating, and I can only find this
one book to his credit. Has he written other biographies? I would like to read a
summary of his politics, so to speak, an author profile. I am a published author
myself, and I know this information should be provided for any legitimate
writer.
COMMENT:
Get the book and see what is there. Everyone starts with a first book, even you. It is not suspect because of that. Tell us what you have published so we can check you out by the same standards you impose on Hunt before you will accept his writing as valid. Give us a summary of your politics so we can see if it is "approved" according to Thieme or anyone else.
YOU SAID:
I assume the author conducted extensive interviews with Thieme, and they are
cited in his work? This is standard procedure for a biographer of a living subject.
If he did not include verbatim quotations by Thieme, his biography is bunk.
COMMENT:
"IF HE DID NOT MAKE VERBATIM QUOTES OF THIEME HIS BIOGRAPHY IS BUNK? You have not even read it and you are dismissing it totally. Hunt never claimed his work was personal, in fact he bent over backwards simply to establish PUBLIC RECORD FACTS to avoid any possible PREJUDICE unlike you who condemn it out of hand and unread.
YOU SAID:
It is highly irregular for a liar of the magnitude that you claim Thieme is to lie
to his congregation for years, then spill his guts to be printed in a book, is it
not?
COMMENT:
See my comments above about the question of ANY BIOGRAPHY being composed by ANY PRO THIEME PERSON. Granted, I floated the question only on one forum, but it is completely positive to Thieme and as far as I can see is typical of all Thieme groups I have ever been in personally or ever heard of from others.
As for Thieme being a liar, read the book then make up your own mind.
YOU SAID:
The reason I ask these questions, among other things, is that I find it odd that
anyone would choose to write a book about a minister that is relatively obscure,
from a church that just a relative handfull of Christians have ever heard of, and
if they have, they could care less? Either this man is an ardent admirer of Thieme,
or just another heckler. He certainly didn't write it for profit, which is the motive
almost every author on earth would have, else he would have selected a famous
man to write about, like Billy Graham, or the like.
COMMENT:
So if a man chooses a subject for biography and the subject is obscure his motives are suspect? Who would care? Why is this such a traumatic discussion for you? It is PUBLIC RECORDS, for crying out loud. Read it and reply to it HERE, PLEASE! You can DEFEND YOUR COLONEL in public. Don't miss a chance to prove us WRONG. But then, maybe that IS THE PROBLEM. You don't want to engage in a truly objective discussion especially if there is the teeniest chance of there being a crack or a flaw in your hero's armor.
YOU SAID:
A few of the statements you made about this book raised a red flag in my mind;
So what if Thieme Sr. was a salesman? So what if he moved into a triplex? These
facts, if true, prove nothing. The richest man I know, personally, had millions, but
lived in the same nondescript house in Bellaire, Texas, and drove a rusted out Buick
the whole time I knew him (He was a silent partner in my father's real estate
business). Unless you knew his parents left him a chunk of the Permian Basin, the
richest oil country in the world, and he married a Stratton (heir of the Briggs and
Stratton fortune) you would think he was just a "man of modest means". Fact is,
he was just a penny pinching old putz.
COMMENT:
Thieme has plainly made claims to having forfeited a sizable inheritance when he decided to become a pastor. He claimed his father disinherited him and he "suffered for his Christian convictions." This is HIGHLY RELEVANT TO THIS DISCUSSION because of Thieme's references to his personal dedication to studying and teaching above and beyond all other pastors of this generation. He gave up a fortune for the Word of God, he says and strongly implies it more than once on his tapes. THIEME IS THE ONE WHO MADE THIS CLAIM REPEATEDLY. If language means anything at all, then it is important to find out just how sizable this so called inheritance might have been. It comes up short in Hunt's bio examination of public records. As far as I know, Hunt avoids pejorative terms and statements. ALL OF WHICH IF TRUE YOU SAY PROVES NOTHING.
YOU SAID:
Wikipedia cites that the Thiemes moved to Beverly Hills when they inherited a large
family estate. This would also support what I just said. Thieme Sr.'s occupation would
be of no consequence. Bob Thieme's uncle founded Lincoln National Life Insurance
in Fort Wayne, Indiana (where Theime was born). His name was Arthur Hunt. I don't
know where the inheritance came from, but this is one very likely source.
COMMENT:
WIKIPEDIA is no final authority on anything. Their web pages' contents are composed and posted by anyone who wants to "opine", so they are all to be taken with a very large grain of salt.
AGAIN READ HUNT'S BOOK AND SEE WHAT IS CLAIMED BEFORE YOU REJECT OUT OF HAND any conclusions coming from it. When I ordered my copy from Amazon this past Friday there were four copies left in stock, more on the way, they said. So get yours while you can. Don't you want to exopse a liar? Well, here is your chance.
YOU SAID:
It also occured to me that Mr. C.G.Hunt may also be a relative of Arthur, and one very
feasable reason he wrote this book was because he was cut out of the will. I don't know, but as I said, I need many questions answered before I embrace this book as factual and unbiased. At this point there is good reason to hold this book as highly suspect.
COMMENT:
Nobody is asking anyone to "embrace" Hunt's book, and certainly not before YOU HAVE AT LEAST READ IT IN ITS ENTIRETY. If its facts are accurate, don't you want to at least know what was said? If its facts are inaacurate, then someone should challenge them.
THIEME ALWAYS SAID HIS POLICY WAS TO IGNORE CRITICS AND NOT TO ANSWER THEM. Even when people "plagiarized' his work, he did not want to pursure the matter. And you well know that some have taken his work and published it under their names with their own embellishments. I was personally present at a local "face to face" Thieme conference in my area when I heard Thieme respond to a comment about this specific person from one of us in the audience. I also heard his reply. Basically, it was "SHHHHH!"
YOU SAID
I hope this response satisfies your post. I will look into this matter, I assure you, as
I am understandably concerned if Bob is a liar
COMMENT:
PLEASE DO LOOK INTO IT, and bring what you find back to THIS FORUM THREAD so we can follow the results of your research. and how about sharing with us the title of your own published work so we can buy it and read it?
With bio and political opinions plainly stated as well, please.
Sistersoap