Quote
mile2
Imjustme:

All your questions about the author C.G. Hunt normally would be very valid. However in this case they are not relevant because of the way in which the book was written. C.G. Hunt took no position either pro or con Thieme, but simply compiled biographical data that came from sources available to the public, such as newspaper articles, books, and documents that are a matter of public record. He made no conclusions based on the data and presented it in a completely objective manner. Some time ago I responded to another member of this forum who had questions similar to yours. So I would like to quote my response then because it may answer some of your questions now.

"Thieme's mother probably did receive some inheritance upon her father's death in 1928. In 1929, Thieme's grandfather Frederick was reported to have left Indiana to join his son RBT Sr. in Beverly Hills. However, any inheritance would have to have been shared by Thieme's mother, a brother by a 2nd wife, and his 3rd wife and 2 young children.

Thieme's grandfather (superintendent of the Wayne Knitting Mills) wrote in his will that he had given his son Robert Sr. and daughter Martha financial support in the purchasing or furnishing of their homes. When he died in 1937 he left his entire estate of $60,000 to his wife. Bob Thieme was a freshman at the University of Arizona at the time. His family had already left their rental home in Beverly Hills before this time and were living in a triplex in Beverly Hills. When Thieme's father filed for divorce from his mother 2 years later he listed their community property as consisting of "automobiles, furniture and fixtures, linens, rugs and silverware, and no other property." His father married again 6 months after his divorce was final and moved to a large apartment building in L.A. I'm sure his father probably made a decent living as a water purifier salesman, but there could be no mistaking the fact that he was not wealthy. When Thieme said that his father disinherited him when he decided to become a pastor he led people to believe he gave up a large sum of money to serve God. After all, he repeatedly told stories of a priviledged life in Beverly Hills. This is the impression all those in his ministry I have spoken to have. He was lying about that because his father really didn't have much to leave him and he knew that.

You mention that C.G. Hunt's book is an unauthorized biography. A true biography is neither pro nor con the subject. It should not need the authorization or approval of anyone, because it should be as accurate and unbiased a rendering of the facts as possible. It should present all the facts-- those that are complimentary toward the subject and those that are not. After all, the Bible presents the whole story of men such as David, who had great virtues and great flaws. Hunt says in his Introduction, "Extreme care has been taken with this biography to record an accurate rendering of past events. That is why no interviews were conducted to gain factual information concerning Bob Thieme, and all information was taken from documents that are a matter of public record."

Personal interviews would only lead to misinformation in my point of view. You could interview a long time "taper" and his account would elevate Thieme to the position of the 2nd Apostle Paul. Or you could interview someone who left his ministry who would consider him to be the antichrist. I think Hunt tried to be as objective as possible. What he uncovered just happened to contradict over and over again what Thieme had told his supporters.

I did not notice any assumptions in the book, and all speculations are clearly stated as such. The reader is simply presented with likely possibilities. They are never stated as fact."

The book is extremely well referenced and every statement made can easily be checked out. There is a great deal of erroneous information written about Thieme by other biographers. Many have relied on an interview with Katherine Tapping of Berachah Church. That is why Wikipedia contains incorrect statements. However, C.G. Hunt corrects this misinformation in his book. I don't know the source of your information but several parts of your post are in error.

It was not Bob Thieme's uncle who founded Lincoln National Life Insurance in Indiana. Rather his great uncle Theodore Thieme served as its director and his grandfather held stock in the company. Bob Thieme has no uncle by the name of Arthur Hunt. In your original post you also said:

"Colonel Bob Thieme was the youngest Colonel in the U.S. Army Air Corps (25
years old), the personal aide to General Yount. When Bob announced that he
was resigning to go into the ministry the general encouraged him to remain
in service, assuring him that he would surely become a general himself. Bob
declined."

First, Bob Thieme is a lieutenant colonel, not a full colonel. The military records of former military men are a matter of public record and from them C.G. Hunt reports a thorough discription of Thieme's service. Thieme was given the commission to Lt. Colonel on Dec.18, 1945 after the conclusion of WWII, while he was waiting to be relieved of active duty at a separation base. His age at that time was 27, 2 months shy of his 28th birthday.

As far as serving as General Yount's personal assistant, the military records (Yount's is on the internet and Thieme's is in the book) show that the only time both men were assigned to the same base was in Fort Worth, TX for the short period of 2 months from May, 1943 to July, 1943. During that time the records say that Thieme served under Col. E.W. Suarez and no mention of General Yount is made. I'm sure Thieme was acquainted with Gen. Yount and may have worked with him in some capacity, but to characterize his service during WWII as the General's personal assistant is a gross exaggeration.

I also think it is highly unlikely that Gen. Yount would predict that Thieme could become a general if he remained in the military. Thieme was a non-rated officer, meaning he was not a pilot. He went into the reserves when he left active duty in 1946 and did not retire until 1961. But in all that time he never received a commission to a full Colonel. The reason is (based on conversations I have had with several veterans and as stated in the book) that an Air Force officer who could not fly rarely could rise beyond Lt. Col. I'm sure Gen. Yount knew this. Contrast this with the actor, Jimmy Stewart, who became a Col. during WWII and then in the reserves rose to the rank of brigadier general. Of course Jimmy Stewart was a pilot, who flew 20 combat missions during the war.

I strongly urge you to read "Robert B. Thieme; His Ancestry; His Life". Only then will you see the true picture of Thieme's distortions and fabrications.
It is extremely important because if a man would lie about his life and accomplishments in such a fashion for the purpose of self-aggrandizement, he is not a minister of God and nothing he says can be trusted.

THANKS FOR YOUR CORRECTIONS some of which errors I believe I have made in posts on this forum.


You made a well worded post that addresses the main concerns anyone would naturally have of an "unauthorized biography" of their favorite person. It is far from gossip.

As for the decorations in Berachah Church in Houston being unnoticed by Thieme, nothing that was in that place was unnoticed by him as far as I can determine.

Remebmer the walls were repainted CONFEDERATE GOLD, not "yellow." The man was that strange.


sistersoap

Quote
radaph

Quote
rrmoderator
radaph:

You said, "You are not objective. As such, I am finished discussing this with you. You haven't heard what I've said. So what's the point in saying more? There is none."

At this point you begin to sound like a child unwilling to participate in a group activity unless he or she has their way.

Please understand that just because people don't agree with you, this doesn't mean they are either not "objective" and/or "haven't heard."

It simply means that others think you are wrong and don't agree with you.

It seems like you may not be used to a group discussion with varying opinions and viewpoints.

No, the fact that you disagree doesn't bother me. It's why you disagree that bothers me. I think you people are far too willing to write off a Christian ministry as a cult based on the extremely biased opinions of a few bad eggs that came from that church. Well, there are people like that at every church in America. That doesn't mean there is something wrong with the churches. There is something wrong with the people.

Quote
rrmoderator
Perhaps within the Thieme group there was a kind of cloned mindset, which precluded reaching conclusions from more than one perspective?

Oh please. That's just it. There is no "Thieme group."
If there is a forum for thiemites I've never found it. I haven't even looked.

I have talked on many forums, and discussed bible doctrine with every denomination with ever different idea you could imagine, even some athiests. Differing opinions do not bother me. I really enjoy a good debate. I don't enjoy it when someone I admire is being raked over the coals for a bunch of crap that isn't even true.

You said that you did not know of a forum FOR THIEMEITES. I WILL SUPPLY A LINK THAT IS A FORUM FOR THIEME PEOPLE:

It is called BIBLE DOCTRINE STUDY GROUP on Delphi,

[forums.delphiforums.com]


HAVE FUN! For the curious, this forum shows vividly the attitudes that long time devotion to Thieme's teaching brings. Try some topics to see what I am talking about. How about

ABORTION

or

BAPTISM

Some real cultists who show up there from time to time don't really get what they need. My experience trying to deal with a cultist on that forum trying to sell his wares showed me that the Thieme people were unable to understand that cults use bible words with THEIR OWN SPECIAL DEFINITIONS so that greatly affects their ability to communicate clearly with them.

They totally missed my point. They did not help the cultist. THey tried to convince him that THIEME WAS THE ONLY REAL DEAL out there as far as Bible truth was concerned.


I go back now and then to make sure they are still there. It is a very depressing place for a former Thiemer, but can be very educational if you are new to Thieme.

It is a gold mine for Thieme doctrine researchers.


Sistersoap

Quote
Truthtesty
Hello Sister,

You have been gone a while.

Did you see where I posted that Doktor Gerahrd Kittle, of Kittle's Theological Dictionary, was one of Hitler's theologians? Doktor Kittle was imprisoned after WWII by the allies. The allies went straight to the university where Doktor Kittle taught and arrested him. Kittle was imprisoned for 17 months.

[www.vitalvisuals.com]

[books.google.com]


Kittle's Theological Dictionary of the New Testament was so poorly written, that I could not identify the J. Behm in Thieme's reference in Kittle's TDNT, for quite awhile. In some volumes it was it was "Johannes Behm" other volumes "J. Behm". There is only one Behm listed for all the volumes of the entire Kittle's TDNT. It was listed in the index in the last volume (the only index) - Johannes Behm of Göttingen.

Behm, Johannes
(1883–1948). Prot. theol.; b. Doberan, Mecklenburg-Schwerin, Ger.; prof. Königsberg 1920, Göttingen 1923, Berlin 1935. Coed. Das Neue Testament Deutsch. Other works include Die Handauflegung im Urchristentum; Der Begriff Diatheke in Neuen Testament; Die Bekehrung des Paulus; Die mandäische Religion und das Christenturn.

Also Doktor Johannes Behm did not go to prison as far as I know, but Johannes Behm also supported Hitler and the Nazi movement. [www.verfolgte-schueler.org] . Emanual Hirsch (listed as Hitler's theologian see above) and Johannes Behm are associated in that german document also.

Walter Bauer made reference to JBehm and LMorris, in Walter Bauer's Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and other Early Christian Literature. JBehm was not listed under 2. b. blood and life as an expiatory sacrifice 1Cl 55:1---Esp of the blood of Jesus as means of expiation Rom 3:25... Eph 1:7, (Col 1:14 v.1.)., but JBehm was listed under 3. Of the (apocalyptic) red color....Blood on the whole-JBehm, but in a later edition the reference to J. Behm is completely removed, but LMorris's reference remains..

[www.4shared.com]

Doktor Paul Althaus was Althaus and Behm wrote a book together.
Paul Althaus (also considered one of Hitler's Theologians (see above)) and Johannes Behm wrote a book together. "Das Neue Testament deutsch" Johannes Behm (Autor), Peter Stuhlmacher (Autor), Gerhard Friedrich (Autor), Paul Althaus (Autor)

[www.amazon.de]



Truthtesty

HI TESTY,

did I reply to this one from you? I have lost track!
Thanks for your research on Kittel. I was not totally unaware of these facts, but as more comes out I appreciate your relaying it.

History is often written by the winners and the losers point of view has gone untold. For example, many of the groups systematically persecuted by Romanism in the past were simply Bible believing Christians who refused to acquiesce to their dictates and false teachings. Hence they get derogatory names such as LOLLARDS, and....oh shucks, I forgot my list......There are other names which escape me right now.

At any rate, we as the winners seem to have found all kinds of Nazis in the woodworks and theology was not exempt from following Hitler.

But it was good having those trains run on time, even if some of them led to Auschwiz.



Sis

Quote

HI TESTY,

At any rate, we as the winners seem to have found all kinds of Nazis in the woodworks and theology was not exempt from following Hitler.

Sis

Your welcome dear Sister,

What I find striking is which theology followed, SUPPORTED, and submitted to Hitler authority (Kittel, Behm, Althaus, Hirsch etc..)

AND

Which theology strove to undue Hitler and "resisted unto blood" (Confessing Church, Barth, Bonhoeffer executed by Hitler, etc..)

It appears approximately 75% of Protestant christianity supported and submitted to Hitler's authority. The Catholic church did resist Hitler, but eventually with the "Concordat" made a "deal with the devil" (as like the Protestants to keep political power within the 3rd Reich)

How much was Christian truth being told in churches and how much was "political speak" spoken in churches for Hitler(for political standing etc...) and bending of scripture for Hitler? Certainly, Doktor Kittel bent christianity for the Jewish message from one of supporting the Jews prior to Hitler's ascent to power, to one of "finding a christian reason" to solve the "Jewish Question" after.

I think there is much to be said on this subject. Maybe there is much literature in German on this subject. Certainly, it should give people at least pause, in reading Kittle's TDNT.


Testy

Quote
Truthtesty

Quote

HI TESTY,

At any rate, we as the winners seem to have found all kinds of Nazis in the woodworks and theology was not exempt from following Hitler.

Sis

Your welcome dear Sister,

What I find striking is which theology followed, SUPPORTED, and submitted to Hitler authority (Kittel, Behm, Althaus, Hirsch etc..)

AND

Which theology strove to undue Hitler and "resisted unto blood" (Confessing Church, Barth, Bonhoeffer executed by Hitler, etc..)

It appears approximately 75% of Protestant christianity supported and submitted to Hitler's authority. The Catholic church did resist Hitler, but eventually with the "Concordat" made a "deal with the devil" (as like the Protestants to keep political power within the 3rd Reich)

How much was Christian truth being told in churches and how much was "political speak" spoken in churches for Hitler(for political standing etc...) and bending of scripture for Hitler? Certainly, Doktor Kittel bent christianity for the Jewish message from one of supporting the Jews prior to Hitler's ascent to power, to one of "finding a christian reason" to solve the "Jewish Question" after.

I think there is much to be said on this subject. Maybe there is much literature in German on this subject. Certainly, it should give people at least pause, in reading Kittle's TDNT.


Testy

HI TESTY,

I am glad you bring the subject up of Kittel and others. It reminds me that NO AUTHORS ARE TOTALLY NEUTRAL. Reference books get a free pass with no consideration of the point of view or prejudices of the authors! But it is there despite the common assumptions that authors of reference books have no axe to grind. As we have seen, THEY DO, and it can show up in the most unlikely ways and in unexpected places.

As the Marxist-Leninists say, EVERYTHING IS POLITICAL. And they are correct about that. It is the only thing I can think of they say that I do agree on. It is why they go after EVERY ASPECT OF LIFE AND CULTURE when they take over.

It is also good to remember that the takeover process was successful in Germany because so many IGNORED MANY RED FLAGS. Once Hitler and his relatively small cadre of dedicated followers took power, it was too late for the moderates or sincere opposition to resist.

We should remember this!

Keep up the good work.

sis

Quote
sistersoap

Quote
radaph

Quote
rrmoderator
radaph:

You said, "You are not objective. As such, I am finished discussing this with you. You haven't heard what I've said. So what's the point in saying more? There is none."

At this point you begin to sound like a child unwilling to participate in a group activity unless he or she has their way.

Please understand that just because people don't agree with you, this doesn't mean they are either not "objective" and/or "haven't heard."

It simply means that others think you are wrong and don't agree with you.

It seems like you may not be used to a group discussion with varying opinions and viewpoints.

No, the fact that you disagree doesn't bother me. It's why you disagree that bothers me. I think you people are far too willing to write off a Christian ministry as a cult based on the extremely biased opinions of a few bad eggs that came from that church. Well, there are people like that at every church in America. That doesn't mean there is something wrong with the churches. There is something wrong with the people.

Quote
rrmoderator
Perhaps within the Thieme group there was a kind of cloned mindset, which precluded reaching conclusions from more than one perspective?

Oh please. That's just it. There is no "Thieme group."
If there is a forum for thiemites I've never found it. I haven't even looked.

I have talked on many forums, and discussed bible doctrine with every denomination with ever different idea you could imagine, even some athiests. Differing opinions do not bother me. I really enjoy a good debate. I don't enjoy it when someone I admire is being raked over the coals for a bunch of crap that isn't even true.

You said that you did not know of a forum FOR THIEMEITES. I WILL SUPPLY A LINK THAT IS A FORUM FOR THIEME PEOPLE:

It is called BIBLE DOCTRINE STUDY GROUP on Delphi,

[forums.delphiforums.com]


HAVE FUN! For the curious, this forum shows vividly the attitudes that long time devotion to Thieme's teaching brings. Try some topics to see what I am talking about. How about

ABORTION

or

BAPTISM

Some real cultists who show up there from time to time don't really get what they need. My experience trying to deal with a cultist on that forum trying to sell his wares showed me that the Thieme people were unable to understand that cults use bible words with THEIR OWN SPECIAL DEFINITIONS so that greatly affects their ability to communicate clearly with them.

They totally missed my point. They did not help the cultist. THey tried to convince him that THIEME WAS THE ONLY REAL DEAL out there as far as Bible truth was concerned.


I go back now and then to make sure they are still there. It is a very depressing place for a former Thiemer, but can be very educational if you are new to Thieme.

It is a gold mine for Thieme doctrine researchers.


Sistersoap

I am not really interested in looking at a Thiemite forum. When I said there weren't any, I didn't really mean it literally. I just meant that the thiemites are not some organized group, they are just a bunch of people all over the world who follow thieme. But for the most part, they do so individually.

But I don't care to make any more arguments for the defense.

I do think I learned some valuable things about God's word from Berachah. For those I am thankful.
But I also think I learned a lot of lies, and I am going to have to un-learn and re-learn a lot of things.

I talked with my father about this a few days ago, and to my surprise, he mostly agreed with me. The difference is he was able to discern the good from the bad about Thieme's teachings, and put the bad in his "spiritual garbage can" as he called it. But the difference between him and I is that he grew up in a baptist church and attended there until he was 22, then when he and my mom got married, they went to her church, where the pastor was definitely influenced by Thieme, but he wasnt' a clone. His church was a family, and had many other aspects that Berachah lacked. And my dad didn't start attending Berachah until he was almost 30.

But I grew up in Berachah, and as a child, I didn't question anything I was taught. I just believed. That's where the phrase "faith like a child" comes from. Children will believe almost anything. And I did.
Because of that, I have certain spiritual disabilities, that hopefully I will eventually be able to overcome. The main one is that I have much trouble thinking of God as my father. I view him more as a 5 star general. The king of the universe sitting on His glorious throne, and completely unapproachable for the likes of me. I know from scripture that this is not true. I know that I can come "boldly before the throne." But knowing those things, and having faith in them are two different things. The later is what I am struggling with.

Quote
radaph

Quote
sistersoap

Quote
radaph

Quote
rrmoderator
radaph:

You said, "You are not objective. As such, I am finished discussing this with you. You haven't heard what I've said. So what's the point in saying more? There is none."

At this point you begin to sound like a child unwilling to participate in a group activity unless he or she has their way.

Please understand that just because people don't agree with you, this doesn't mean they are either not "objective" and/or "haven't heard."

It simply means that others think you are wrong and don't agree with you.

It seems like you may not be used to a group discussion with varying opinions and viewpoints.

No, the fact that you disagree doesn't bother me. It's why you disagree that bothers me. I think you people are far too willing to write off a Christian ministry as a cult based on the extremely biased opinions of a few bad eggs that came from that church. Well, there are people like that at every church in America. That doesn't mean there is something wrong with the churches. There is something wrong with the people.

Quote
rrmoderator
Perhaps within the Thieme group there was a kind of cloned mindset, which precluded reaching conclusions from more than one perspective?

Oh please. That's just it. There is no "Thieme group."
If there is a forum for thiemites I've never found it. I haven't even looked.

I have talked on many forums, and discussed bible doctrine with every denomination with ever different idea you could imagine, even some athiests. Differing opinions do not bother me. I really enjoy a good debate. I don't enjoy it when someone I admire is being raked over the coals for a bunch of crap that isn't even true.

You said that you did not know of a forum FOR THIEMEITES. I WILL SUPPLY A LINK THAT IS A FORUM FOR THIEME PEOPLE:

It is called BIBLE DOCTRINE STUDY GROUP on Delphi,

[forums.delphiforums.com]


HAVE FUN! For the curious, this forum shows vividly the attitudes that long time devotion to Thieme's teaching brings. Try some topics to see what I am talking about. How about

ABORTION

or

BAPTISM

Some real cultists who show up there from time to time don't really get what they need. My experience trying to deal with a cultist on that forum trying to sell his wares showed me that the Thieme people were unable to understand that cults use bible words with THEIR OWN SPECIAL DEFINITIONS so that greatly affects their ability to communicate clearly with them.

They totally missed my point. They did not help the cultist. THey tried to convince him that THIEME WAS THE ONLY REAL DEAL out there as far as Bible truth was concerned.


I go back now and then to make sure they are still there. It is a very depressing place for a former Thiemer, but can be very educational if you are new to Thieme.

It is a gold mine for Thieme doctrine researchers.


Sistersoap

I am not really interested in looking at a Thiemite forum. When I said there weren't any, I didn't really mean it literally. I just meant that the thiemites are not some organized group, they are just a bunch of people all over the world who follow thieme. But for the most part, they do so individually.

But I don't care to make any more arguments for the defense.

I do think I learned some valuable things about God's word from Berachah. For those I am thankful. But I also think I learned a lot of lies, and I am going to have to un-learn and re-learn a lot of things.

I talked with my father about this a few days ago, and to my surprise, he mostly agreed with me. The difference is he was able to discern the good from the bad about Thieme's teachings, and put the bad in his "spiritual garbage can" as he called it. But the difference between him and I is that he grew up in a baptist church and attended there until he was 22, then when he and my mom got married, they went to her church, where the pastor was definitely influenced by Thieme, but he wasnt' a clone. His church was a family, and had many other aspects that Berachah lacked. And my dad didn't start attending Berachah until he was almost 30.

But I grew up in Berachah, and as a child, I didn't question anything I was taught. I just believed. That's where the phrase "faith like a child" comes from. Children will believe almost anything. And I did. Because of that, I have certain spiritual disabilities, that hopefully I will eventually be able to overcome. The main one is that I have much trouble thinking of God as my father. I view him more as a 5 star general. The king of the universe sitting on His glorious throne, and completely unapproachable for the likes of me. I know from scripture that this is not true. I know that I can come "boldly before the throne." But knowing those things, and having faith in them are two different things. The later is what I am struggling with.

TP RADAPH:

Hi,
I posted a reply to you earlier today but the site acted like I had not even signed in even after two tries to sign in so I guess it was lost. I hate it when that happens.

Trying again, I will reply below to what you said above that was new:

YOU SAID:
I am not really interested in looking at a Thiemite forum. When I said there weren't any, I didn't really mean it literally. I just meant that the thiemites are not some organized group, they are just a bunch of people all over the world who follow thieme. But for the most part, they do so individually.

COMMENT:
Thanks for explaining. I can only go by what people actually say here. I thought maybe you really wanted to explore such a site. I don't go there much anymore. It is VERY depressing. I do check now and then to make sure they are still there so when I send people they will actually find what I sent them there for.

For an 'unorganized group' "Thiemeites" manage to affect a lot of people. With the growth of other "doctrinal churches"modeled after Thieme's ministry and many taper home groups they are often more than just a bunch of indicviduals. They do affect churches, dividing them and peeling members off because what they are hearing does not "measure up" to the "colonel's" teaching. But I know what you mean. Thieme is not now and never was heading up a denominational set up, but he did set things in motion for a genuine "movement" for that is what it is now, like it or not.


THEN YOU SAID:
But I don't care to make any more arguments for the defense.

I do think I learned some valuable things about God's word from Berachah. For those I am thankful. But I also think I learned a lot of lies, and I am going to have to un-learn and re-learn a lot of things.

COMMENT:
I don't think any former follower of Thieme has ever said on this forum that EVERYTHING Thieme said was wrong or bad. Far from it. My personal opinion is that he accurately identified the dearth of the Word of God in our churches and he set out to remedy that situation in his local baliwick. That is admirable and helpful. As far as I can see, for a while he was going along swimmingly at least as far as actual teaching in the Basic series, early version.

In fact the MIXTURE of truth and error is always deadlier than pure lies alone. I think you will have no trouble seeing that. It makes it harder to leave and easier for new people to get into the group.

You are correct about unlearning and learning. But it is a wonderfully freeing thing to do in the long run, especially if you and your wife are agreed about this process. You can leave a group, but what is in your head and heart takes longer to identify and grow out of. You don't just command the lies to leave. And having been raised in Prep school probably sunk those lies more deeply into your heart than coming to Thieme as an adult.


YOU SAID:
I talked with my father about this a few days ago, and to my surprise, he mostly agreed with me. The difference is he was able to discern the good from the bad about Thieme's teachings, and put the bad in his "spiritual garbage can" as he called it. But the difference between him and I is that he grew up in a baptist church and attended there until he was 22, then when he and my mom got married, they went to her church, where the pastor was definitely influenced by Thieme, but he wasnt' a clone. His church was a family, and had many other aspects that Berachah lacked. And my dad didn't start attending Berachah until he was almost 30.


COMMENTS:
GREAT OBSERVATIONS!

The reason you don't have to throw away the baby with the bath water so to speak, is that SOME of the things Thieme taught really are in the Bible. But almost none of his "how to live the Christian life" and this is your soul on the inside stuff is just that---STUFF. Sorting it out is not easy because in this case the POWERFUL CONTROLS built in to the teaching are VERY SUBTLE. This is not your ordinary coercive cult type controls, they are INTERNAL and inherent in the teachings. We were manipulated by FEAR AND GUILT and drawn forward and kept within the system by a BAIT AND SWITCH technique. Listen to more tapes learn more Bible Doctrine apply this that and the other" and you will MATURE and have DYING GRACE etc etc! This is the same effect that might happen under some standard Baptist teachings about IN AND OUT OF FELLOWSHIP, but Thieme's system had lots more bells and whistles and sunk deeply into his listeners for there were constant OVERT THREATS about terrible things would happen if you didn't get with the program. Or (shudder) if you should LEAVE or stop believing what you were taught. And by the way, don't tell anyone anything bad about what you have seen or heard here....that is maligning and GOD WILL GET YOU WITH TRIPLE COMPOUND DIVINE DISCIPLINE....just another of the many threats built into the system. I bet no Baptist church preaches that, but it is because they did not think of it!

I am really glad you have been talking with your Dad and that he can distinguish good from bad. For me the acid test has been CAN I RELAX NOW THAT I AM NOT LISTENING TO THIEME TAPES ANY MORE? Can I tell the truth about all this when appropriate and not fear God will clobber me? I wonder if your Dad still listens to RBT tapes any more?


YOU SAID:
But I grew up in Berachah, and as a child, I didn't question anything I was taught. I just believed. That's where the phrase "faith like a child" comes from. Children will believe almost anything. And I did.


COMMENT:
GOOD THOUGHT. Very true. And that is sad, because children's teaching ought to be THE MOST ACCURATE, THE BEST, MOST INTERESTING that is around any church.

And a lot of creative abilities go into "Prep School" it is just so full of baloney! Your recollections about that teaching you had as a child would be most enlightening to hear if you care to share it some time. Not everyone was harmed or even offended by these things, but a lot of walking wounded are around thinking they are just fine when their limp shows to everyone else. THEY can't see it, however.


YOU SAID:


Because of that, I have certain spiritual disabilities, that hopefully I will eventually be able to overcome. The main one is that I have much trouble thinking of God as my father. I view him more as a 5 star general. The king of the universe sitting on His glorious throne, and completely unapproachable for the likes of me. I know from scripture that this is not true. I know that I can come "boldly before the throne." But knowing those things, and having faith in them are two different things. The later is what I am struggling with


COMMENT:
That is a good way of looking at things. It IS a spiritually disabling what you have been through, especially because you grew up there. There are a lot of negative messages that are lodged in your mind that you may not even be aware of that will take a lot of working out. As you learn truth and replace lies with Bible truth things will get better. Be kind to yourself be patient seek the help you need, and KEEP LOOKING AND ASKING FOR HELP until you find what you need, and only you can be the best judge of that. You and your wife together have a wonderful journey ahead of you! You have been SPIRITUALLY ABUSED by lies. This is not exclusive to Thieme, but few have the kind of influence and control over his listeners that Thieme has because of the prescriptions of DAILY LISTENING and the threats of DIVINE DISCIPLINE including the SIN UNTO DEATH for various non Biblical infractions which intensified his control. It almost does not matter if this was by design or it just happened. The effect on US remains the same.


Keep us posted, OK?

I am so thankful for the good beginning you have made!


Sis

Quote
mile2
Truthlover:

Thank you for the link to Thieme's books online at "mustseethisone.com"

I was reading the book "Follow the Colors" when I found the following quote on p.17.
” For example, if you are prepared for marriage through the consistent absorption of Bible doctrine, you will not only make the right decision for a partner, but you will also develop in your soul a tremendous capacity for sexual and spiritual relationship. Many of our young people are already preparing for eventual marital happiness by their nightly attendance in Bible class, even though marriage is still far from their minds. In order to enjoy all that is wonderful and beautiful in this life, there must be soul preparation."

This false promise dangled before young men and women who naturally want so much to find love in a life partner is despicable. Thieme uses this desire for love to control and manipulate young and lonely people, demanding their nightly attendance at his teachings. I'm sure no person has spent more time under Thieme's indoctrination than his own son Bobby. But the promise of "tremendous capacity for sexual and spiritual relationship" was definitely not his reward. After 3 failed marriages he remains unmarried today. His unhappy situation is unfortunately not an anomaly. Every regular member of the tape group I am familiar with has been divorced. This should be a red flag that something is certainly wrong with what Thieme teaches.

AAAAAAAAAAMEN!!

Thanks for the quote and pointing out the obvious!

However, all I got when I clicked on the link was the item from e-Sword and the puff ad for Thieme's stuff. I did not see anything about his books.

Can you enlighten me?

Sis

mile2,

You are very welcome for the link, and I am glad it is useful.


sistersoap,

Go to the link and scroll down a little until you see on the left:

"All the books! 64 in all. Literal, Grammatical, Historical, Etymological, Contextual, Exegetical, Hermeneutical interpretation of The Word! In rich text format "

This is a link....click on it and you will see the list of books. They can be downloaded.

Good luck,
Truthlover