Hi Blackwatch,

Yes, all seems quiet at the moment. It may be folks are on holiday, although that may be a big step for some. I know folks who did not feel they should go on holiday when part of Struthers and retained that practice after they left.

Some of the folks that preached about how it was wrong to go on holiday then changed their mind however and decided that holidays were OK (for them at least). They of course did not actually mention that from the pulpit, they just went on holiday without explaining to anyone that they had changed their position. Because they did not actually come out and say that they used to be wrong, they left their ex-members carrying all the burdens they had imposed on them over the years.

A bit of a cruel trick to force someone to carry a burden then decide it was not actually needed, but never get back to the folk you had burdened to let them know.

Anyway, holidays are one possible reason it is a bit quiet, but there may be no reason - the forum has always ebbed and flowed a bit, although I have been constantly amazed at how consistent it has been in the long term. Quite often a quiet period is interrupted by yet another new person coming forward to speak of their experience. We shall see.


Phoebe, thanks for the suggestion, will look that up. It will be interesting to read the bit about "the stain that remains" and see if it bears any relation to the stuff about holidays mentioned above. May of course be an entirely different point!

Hope all contributors are well and getting some sort of break and chance to reset over summer.

Like many others, I am always open for a chat if anyone would like to be in touch. Happy to talk about Struthers - or to talk about other things and never mention Struthers!

Well, I hear a current theme in the Struthers preaching is how there are “spiritual attacks” on the church because it is getting near to camp.

Interesting. I wonder what these spiritual attacks look like and whether there are any biblical examples of this.

I am even more interested in what these attacks are trying to achieve. What will the outcome be if Satan succeeds in his attacks, and what will the outcome be if he fails? How will we know which one happens? Will the congregation perhaps all be congratulated on day one of the camp at how well they have fended off these attacks?

If these attacks of Satan fail, will a huge revival then sweep the land?

What if he succeeds in his attacks, does that mean the church will lose more members and even more money? Presumably there will be a huge visible impact when Satan is apparently ignoring all the churches out there that are doing good work and bringing people into the kingdom, and focussing his efforts on Struthers.



So many questions!!

Hi ThePetitor
I surely do remember the preaching which contained warnings about Satan’s attacks coming on Struthers in the days and weeks leading up to Camp! If anything went wrong for anyone during this time period, including illness or accident, it was attributed to a pre-Camp attack on them. This sort of teaching leads to fear and anxiety. I remember folk getting very tense and troubled before a Camp and fearful that they might “let the side down” by committing some minor offence in the days leading up to a Camp.

You’re right, though, Petitor, why should Satan concentrate his efforts on a small group of Christians in west and central Scotland? Are they that important to him? Of course, Struthers people believe that their church/movement is indeed a target of Satan because it is one of the few churches (or only church) which adheres to God’s desire for holy living and which hears directly from God in various ways and not only from the Word of God (The Bible).

Phoebe2, It was good to hear from you again on here and I know you were familiar with the Struthers Camps too. They only have one Camp now, lasting from Monday night to Friday night, plus a Youth Camp for kids from age 10 up to 16, I think. The reason they give for having only one Camp now is that there are more branch church meetings and increased numbers. This is actually false if you check on the Struthers website about the current branch churches and the number of members. Folks who attended Struthers years ago will remember that there were once three weeks of Camp, one in July and two in August, all held at Wiston in Scotland. Folks from England came up to Wiston for the second August week. Financial considerations were the reasons I heard as to why the Camps were reduced to just one. Accommodation and hire charges for premises began to rise and eventually became too expensive.

Phoebe2, you mention safeguarding measures in churches and the increased exposure of spiritual abuse cases in the media in recent years. Yes, indeed, churches now have to comply with child protection policies and those working with children and vulnerable adults have to undergo some safeguarding training and have a Disclosure check before they can work with children or vulnerable adults in a church setting. All churches that I’m aware of adhere to this regimen.

If you were to ask the Struthers leaders about their Safeguarding and Child Protection measures, they would quickly tell you that they have all those in place and that they rigorously adhere to them. And from my experience, they do adhere to them where children and teenagers are concerned, but only where dangers from outside are considered. Struthers leaders are only concerned about dangers coming in from outside, such as sexual predators and paedophiles. They don’t concern themselves with abuses that might be happening within the church, and not just to children but to young people and older adults too. That is not covered in their Safeguarding and Child Protection policies. Maybe someone on the Forum has read their Safeguarding Policy, which I believe is on their main website, and could analyse it. They will even say that they have contact with the UK safeguarding organisation, ThirtyOneEight.

But ThirtyOneEight now have on their website a detailed section on spiritual abuse within churches, so they are now very aware of this issue. What will come of their awareness, I’m not sure yet. How much they know about what is really going on in Struthers, I don’t know either. So I think there needs to be a new focus on the abuses perpetrated by leaders WITHIN churches, which is not covered in most Safeguarding documents as yet, including that of SMC.

Looking forward to reading more posts from all of you.

Just caught up on forum not Bern online much latley preitor and Rensil I will soon answer my thoughts on these post after I have a think about it.

I have been listening to a few of Struthers meetings on line and I was listening to one of the main leaders and I am sure I had the exact same sermione 40 years ago or is it that the same sermons are repeated all the time and just have a few alterations. Most of there setmons include what signs god have gave them like there the only ones God talk to and God would never talk to the church members just the leaders as the members would be stupid to realise God was talking to them . Thats what I took of the ones I have listened to for the past month or so .00You might be wondering why 0i listened in first place but the reas0on is I want to prove to myself it's not changed and what I have read and seen it's not



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/21/2024 12:26AM by FalkirkBairn67.

Hi all,
The SMC policies are all available on the church website as you’ve said and had a look at safeguarding policy. It was re-done or done last May 2023 and is 33 pages long. Here is an extract from p3:


‘We recognise that:
• The welfare of all vulnerable groups is paramount;
• All individuals, regardless of age, disability, gender, racial heritage or religious belief, have the right to equal protection from all types of harm or abuse;
• Working in partnership with vulnerable individuals, their parents and carers is essential in promoting welfare.
- We will seek to safeguard vulnerable individuals by:
• Ensuring that children and young people under 18 years should never be left unsupervised whilst in our care;
• Ensuring that there is adequate supervision for each activity involving children and young people;
• Ensuring appropriate parental consent is obtained when necessary:
• Complying with all relevant health and safety policies;
• Valuing, listening to and respecting them;
• Ensuring all volunteers are aware of the SMC code of conduct:
• Recruiting staff and volunteers safely, ensuring all necessary checks are made through the relevant body;
• Responding to any welfare concerns or allegations of abuse in line with this safeguarding policy;
• Providing effective management for staff and volunteers through recruitment, supervision, support and training in order to ensure all staff/volunteers adopt safeguarding best practice,
• Reviewing our policy, good practice and training as required.’

On p12 of the document there are steps taken if there is an allegation or complaint of abuse against a staff member or volunteer of SMC. This is continued if the allegation or complaint is against a church minister or safeguarding officer or Director of Church of SMC.
So the new document is thorough.
However, the question is will the advice given in this document be actually put into practise by all who are allowed to minister not just the church leaders. All who believe they have a laying on of hands ministry and are let loose on those under 18.
For example we have a camp coming up.
Will words of knowledge or discernment about a young persons spiritual condition under 18 or vulnerable adult be given without parental consent? For example directly or through the laying on of hands. Will they be told they have this demon or that demon which needs to be exorcised? Will they perform exorcisms on young people under 18 without the parent or guardian being present?
It states ‘ensuring parental consent when necessary’
What does this mean … when necessary? Potential ‘loophole’? Unsure about this statement. What if the -parents are not in the church and potentially not a Christian or just don’t know what the church teaches re-deliverance and ‘dying to self’. Do parents actually realise the damage they are inflicting if they do allow this? I hope parents read this … be warned you could potentially damage your child for life.
I was a young adult when I received deliverance ministry … not one session but multiple horrendous sessions which ruined my Christian life. Think about the effect upon a child. I was left broken and went through most of my adult Christian life believing I still had demons inside. This was not the action of the Holy Spirit. I won’t repeat here the names of the demons I supposedly had. But thankfully I realised that the person, in this case not a leader, had absolutely no discernment at all and that’s when I stopped getting prayer for deliverance and tried to pick up the pieces.
Years later actually reading the Bible properly and listening to true ministers of the gospel I now realise that it was all a lie. The discernment, the words of knowledge they profess to have, their teaching, their understanding of the moving of the Holy Spirit in the life of the Christian is all wrong. It is not biblical.
At the time of the deliverance my parents/family did not want me to continue with it.. they were not in SMC. They witnessed the devastation the deliverance was having on me and begged me not to continue. I was no longer the child or sibling they knew. But I was an adult (although young) and believed SMC leaders and those who minister were genuine… when I look back I wished I had listened to family. It caused a rift because they believed SMC was a cult.
If members of SMC are reading this please listen to what is being said. Do not read and think it’s just people who are bitter. This is not the case. Real damage has been done to a multitude of people.
Can I also say it’s very difficult to talk about your experience to those who have not been in the Church e.g. family. They don’t understand the spiritual impact and I would never tell them the full details.. they would be horrified.
Looking back at some of the statements .. some of you have been on here for about 14 years e.g. the petitor. When do you actually move on and be fully free? Or has that happened for you? For me it has happened in degrees. But when I look at the life I’ve wasted .. about 30 years.. there needs to come a time when you truly believe that you will get back the years the locusts have eaten. That you can continue in the christian faith and have a positive healthy relationship with biblical Church members if that’s the choice you want to make.
Apologise for long statement.

Just read your post amazing Grace and well done I couldn't have put it in better words.

But truly does anyone ever move on completely. I thought I had 40 years on but the pass week has showing me I haven't this weeks been one of my hardest I have had in years.I feel let down with alot this week.Have relised they still effect how I feel so many years on.But I will come out what I going once again.I just need time.


I agree with you only folk who have went through what you also because of Struthers really understand .

Quite a lot I would like to comment on here, so I will split my thoughts into different posts. Some probably tomorrow.

First, Rensil, I am absolutely with you on all of that – I have no idea why Satan would ignore all the successful churches that are around and focus on one that is basically stagnant.

As for them having a unique message about holiness, well, I guess it is unique, but I am not convinced it is really about holiness or even that they believe it themselves any more. When I read in the Bible or in Christian biographies about holy living, I see people who have given up all that they had and have over their life grown in love, service and effectiveness. I see none of that in Struthers. What Struthers seem to mean by “holiness” is exactly what you describe Rensil – a fear of doing something wrong in case they “disturb the spirit” or, as you say, “let the side down”. That is not Biblical holiness. Just because they use that word “holiness” does not mean they are using it the way the Bible uses it.

It also comes back to my point in an earlier post – what is the point of this “being careful not to disturb the spirit”? If everyone succeeds in walking that tightrope, what happens at the end of it? Does everyone go away speaking about how much God moved in their lives perhaps? If so, then what? Back to work on Monday and more of the same until next year?

How has this worked over the years? There have been over 50 years of camps. Has Satan attacked every year before camp, or only some years? On the occasions he attacked, was that ever effective, or was he always beaten back? What impact did that have? Could the impact be seen after the camp perhaps – did the church perhaps grow in grace and truth, allowing them to report, as Paul did in Colossians 1v3:

Quote
Edited quote from Colossians 1v3 (edits marked with the three dots)
We always thank God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ… because we have heard of your faith in Christ Jesus and of the love you have for all God’s people. … In the same way, the gospel is bearing fruit and growing throughout the whole world.

It that the outcome of a successful camp? That people hear of the love they have for all of God’s people (see third post in this rant for a few more thoughts about that) and, as a result, that the gospel bears fruit?

Could someone go back over the 50 years and clarify whether on each occasion Satan was attacking people, how successful that was, whether some attacks were worse than others, whether the resultant camp was all it could be and what impact it had over the subsequent 12 months? I really do not think this is an unreasonable request. This is what Christian biographies do all the time – explain the circumstances, explain the ways they are being attacked (whether financially, physically or in terms of personal doubts and fears perhaps) then explain their hopes and prayers, how these are answered, and the impact on the work they are doing.

None of this is transparent in the Struthers model, it is all vague and, as far as I can see, impossible to pin down and learn from.

Falkirk Bairn,

You are absolutely correct. A lot of Struthers sermons have been the same for decades:

Part 1: “God is amazing, look at all He has done for His chosen people.”

Part 2: “.. and Struthers are now God’s chosen people in a way that no-one else is. Only we really understand the Bible and hear God speaking directly to us, so you really need to be very afraid of ignoring our teaching and of listening to anyone at all other than the Struthers leaders.”

They spiritualise everything, so winning a physical fight becomes “spiritual warfare”; giving to the poor becomes spreading the good news; and fighting for justice becomes a call to holiness. None of the direct practical advice and instruction in the Bible means what is says. You do not actually have to be kind to those who are struggling or help people, you just have to feel the presence of God and all will be well.

The thing is that message is really quite attractive to people, which is why people become involved. I do not think those who have become involved in Struthers are weak people or people who are easy to fool, I think the vast majority are people who really have a strong desire for the world to be a better place.

Struthers gives a very easy way to do this – “Just follow us and you will be part of something bigger, something that makes the world better.” That in itself is not a bad message, but the Struthers way is then to sign up for the message mentioned above: “God is amazing, we represent God, listening to anyone else is dangerous.” That cuts you off from all other help and support. When their support is removed, you are bereft and, as TheGreek said in an earlier post, feel totally betrayed.

People ask some questions or raise some issues and it is suddenly, “yes, I know that we said this is the only way, but you have taking the wrong turning and are no longer part of that way.” The Bible says it would be better to have a millstone tied around your neck and be cast into the sea than cause a little one to stumble. The leaders should really think seriously about verses like that.

OK, I did say I was going to post a lot at this point. Here is post 3 of 3!

Amazing Grace, thanks for all that info and insight. Really interesting stuff.

Your question of whether the leaders of Struthers are sincere in their belief that safeguarding and other matters are important is a good one. I suspect they are not sincere, as their complaints policy says they see complaints as an opportunity to put things right. That is not what I see on this forum though, as they know it exists but make no effort to put things right. That tells me that they do not care about whether they put things right, they only care about putting the right words in a policy document. I suspect things like their safeguarding policy and their complaints policy were only created because of pressure from outside – probably the Charity Commission.

You also ask “What if the parents are not in the church and potentially not a Christian or just don’t know what the church teaches re-deliverance and ‘dying to self’. Do parents actually realise the damage they are inflicting if they do allow this? I hope parents read this”

Absolutely right, and there is also the other side of this coin – what if the parents ARE in church and are committed to Struthers? If they think it is wrong for their child to receive “deliverance”, will they have the strength to stand up against the leaders and say that? If a leader has a “word of knowledge” about their child and tells the parent they want to speak to the child, what will the loyal-to-Struthers parent do? What safeguards are there against this practice of cashing in on the loyalty of parents to draw their children in?

Rensil, you mentioned that SMC would say they have contact with the UK safeguarding organisation ThirtyOneEight. I would be really interested to know the kind of exchanges they have had with ThirtyOneEight. It would be particularly fascinating to see how much of it is Struthers saying, “Please help us as people have been hurt and we want to help and protect them”, and how much is “Please help us protect ourselves against allegations of abuse”. I suspect it is largely the latter.

That ties into some other thoughts I have had a result of your question about when people move on and are fully free Amazing Grace.

The thing is, I do not really look at it in these terms. I will try to explain why below, but I should perhaps issue a warning – what follows is almost a sermon!

It seems to me that the “worldly” way of looking at things (to quote Struthers) is a selfish one – if you are struggling, then get help to make you feel better; sort yourself out first before you sort out others; look after number one; love yourself before you love others; you have to look after yourself etc.

There is of course nothing wrong with seeking help and support, but I do not think that is ultimately the Christian way, as the Bible points to another way for mature and committed believers. It has verses like:

Romans 12:10 Be devoted to one another in love. Honour one another above yourselves.

Galatians 6v2: Carry each other’s burdens, and in this way you will fulfil the law of Christ.

John 13v34: A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another.

I Corinthians 12v15: Now if the foot should say, “Because I am not a hand, I do not belong to the body,” it would not for that reason stop being part of the body.

All of these point to a corporate responsibility – the need not just to sort ourselves, but to carry a responsibility for others as well. And this is the radical Christian message – to care for others even more than we care for ourselves, as that is what Christ did.

So, to answer your question, Amazing Grace, I will never get over it while others in Struthers or out of Struthers are suffering. That carrying of a broad responsibility for others is an important part of the Christian message and I take it seriously.

It is also where Struthers have gone so badly wrong, as they are totally focussed on themselves. Even the previous posts about camp shows it is basically self-centred. “Oh no, we are not going to have a good time – God is not going to bless us, we are not going to feel the presence of the spirit, we are not being holy enough…” It is all about themselves and their experiences. That misses the core message of the gospel. If the camp focussed on others rather than themselves, then we might see the revival they have been talking about for decades.

They could do worse than starting with 1 Corinthians 12v15, quoted above. That would mean they would have to recognise that many people here on the forum are part of the universal church – a church which they also claim to be part of. Part of the same body, as Paul says. So, they are part of the overall body called the church. Another part of that body is clearly in pain – just read the testimonies here. The only reasonable thing to do is try to relieve that pain – to recognise that part of their own body is in pain and needs a bit of attention. If they do not do that, they are not actually wanting to be part of the body at all.

[As an aside, Basilisk, I would welcome your comments on this. You were very quick to say those raising issues should try to resolve tings within the church, will you also say that the leaders of Struthers should seek to resolve things within the church by taking the initiative to contact people and try to set things right? Will you address them directly as you addressed some of the contributors to this forum?]


If you look at the history of these policies, these are the kind of thoughts that led to things like safeguarding policies in the first place. Not just in Struthers, but anywhere – it was good Christian leaders recognising the need to look after those who were weaker or more vulnerable than themselves, and the recognition that if one part of the body was in pain, that affected the other parts. No other belief system has led to this sort of protection of the weak, it is the Christian principle that everyone should be treated with respect that has led to things like equal rights and safeguarding.

The church should still be leading the way on these things. No part of the church should be fighting against these sorts of policies and practices, or hypocritically using the right words in their policies but then going out of their way to avoid putting them into practice.

The verse Proverbs 31v8 (origin of ThirtyOneEight’s name I understand) is “Speak up for those who cannot speak for themselves, for the rights of all who are destitute.” That is a key calling of the Church and is something Struthers should actually themselves be doing: not trying to protect their own interests, but speaking up for others less fortunate than themselves. This is at the core of the Christian message folks!

I do hope Struthers are indeed working with ThirtyOneEight and a bit of that responsibility rubs off on them, so they accept their role to speak up for those who cannot speak for themselves, especially some of those on the forum who have said they have felt Struthers have actually been the cause of them reaching a position where they feel they cannot speak for themselves.

OK, getting a bit carried away there. Sorry, but I did say it would be a bit like a sermon. Honestly though, why on earth do they make everything so difficult? If they are working with ThirtyOneEight, just put that info on the website. Tell everyone what they are doing. Post a draft remit, ask for comments on it, commit to publicising and acting on the recommendations, be open and honest, and be proactive in looking for ways to support others. Say what Zacchaeus said, ““Look, Lord! Here and now I give half of my possessions to the poor, and if I have cheated anybody out of anything, I will pay back four times the amount.”

Wow, would that create amazingly powerful ripples of grace!

Hi Falkirk Bairn
Thanks for responding. I do hope you find peace as you’ve said in time and hopefully next week will be better. I think coming online onto the forum and talking about your experience in SMC could not have been easy. When I read your initial posts I was very moved by them and your courage to share. Although this may mean you're having to open up ‘old wounds’ I do hope that you continue to find support and comfort from others on the forum and as time unfolds you will find more peace and hopefully some kind of reparation from SMC.

Hi ThePetitor
Thanks for making comments on my post. If it’s OK I’ll respond to different parts.

‘I suspect things like their safeguarding policy and their complaints policy were only created because of pressure from outside – probably the Charity Commission.’
Funny when I looked at the different documents which weren’t always available I had a similar thought.

‘What safeguards are there against this practice of cashing in on the loyalty of parents to draw their children in?’
This is what really concerns me because I think that many of the parents will hand over their children to leaders ministry believing they are doing the best for their child. I don’t know if you remember years ago Mary Black stating from the platform that parents should hand over the spiritual care of their children fully to the leaders and those the leaders appointed. Basically it was the parents duty to do so and if they didn’t you certainly got the impression that the leaders wouldn’t be happy.

‘That ties into some other thoughts I have had a result of your question about when people move on and are fully free Amazing Grace.

The thing is, I do not really look at it in these terms. I will try to explain why below, but I should perhaps issue a warning – what follows is almost a sermon!

It seems to me that the “worldly” way of looking at things (to quote Struthers) is a selfish one – if you are struggling, then get help to make you feel better; sort yourself out first before you sort out others; look after number one; love yourself before you love others; you have to look after yourself etc.

There is of course nothing wrong with seeking help and support, but I do not think that is ultimately the Christian way, as the Bible points to another way for mature and committed believers.’
and
‘ All of these point to a corporate responsibility – the need not just to sort ourselves, but to carry a responsibility for others as well. And this is the radical Christian message – to care for others even more than we care for ourselves, as that is what Christ did.’

I think you have completely misunderstood me as a person and potentially what I meant when I asked about ‘When do you actually move on and be fully free’.

When you read many of the posts some people have completely lost their faith e.g a post mentioned the video about Sam from Pudsey which is in a public forum. He doesn't even believe in a historical Jesus now and I deeply felt for him that his Christian experience resulted in this outcome. I actually wept for him. His response to me ..could possibly be don’t weep I’m happy now in the lifestyle I’ve chosen. But I still find it heartbreaking as a Christian. Then there are others I know who have left but are deeply stuck in the pain of their experience of SMC and have been for years but have not left the Christian faith but also have not moved on at all. The opportunity arose to speak someone like this. I listened and tried my best to help them take steps towards healing. They didn’t want to hear or move on… what is left but to pray for them. Then there are many whom I’ve spoken to who serve the Lord and the gospel but have not settled in a church but have moved from church to church. Someone on the forum asked about this.. unfortunately I can’t remember who .. they had also found it hard to settle in an other church. Then there are those who have totally moved on and built positive relationships with a church fellowship, they have put down roots and are freely serving the gospel in a biblical manner. The fruits of the spirit are very evident in their life.
I disagree on your outlook on how spiritual abuse is treated especially those whose mind and spirit have been so affected that they are completely broken. I don’t believe saying to someone in that state .. ‘join a Church, lay down your life for the gospel, think of others before your self and healing will come, will actually work or does work. And I certainly don’t believe that someone in that position who seeks counselling to heal, which for a time means they may not be serving the gospel, is selfish or looking after number one. I am reminded of Isa 42:3 English Standard Version
a bruised reed he will not break, and a faintly burning wick he will not quench; he will faithfully bring forth justice.
There is a season for everything and for some there needs to be a season or a time for healing depending on the degree of the spiritual abuse.
This will look different for different people.
For many they heal as they serve the gospel and genuinely put others first at all seasons in their life.
For others they first need time out to heal for a season to learn to build wholesome, trusting relationships - we work as a body - and for the spiritually abused person this can be very difficult to do and need help to do this.
For others they need to go back to the foundations of Christianity because everything they believed in turned out be a lie. An example is Jesse Westwood who left Bethel realising it was not biblical and it was a cult. He had saw himself as a prophet or pastor. He nearly lost his faith completely and through a season he had to go back to the Bible and re-build Christian foundations while healing. He is now very active in helping others to move on from Bethel. He is faithfully serving the gospel. He had many friends who left Bethel and also like Sam lost their faith completely.
Where am I? Healing has come in degrees. Healing while serving gospel in the work place, in the home, with neighbours etc.
However, I have come to a final place where I believe like Jesse Westwood that most of the teaching in SMC was a lie and I need to re-build theology which is part of the healing. I’ve done a lot of that over the past number of years by listening to biblical teachers online and attending other churches.
Being a committed Christian or mature in Christ doesn’t mean that there are not times in the Christian’s life where you need outside help which may actually mean a time of respite for some. Or identifying and gracefully accepting that healing is needed so that you can actually serve the gospel more productively.
You may well agree with all I’ve said (or not but that’s ok :))because sometimes a forum like this means we don’t necessarily get to know each other well.

I was simply wondering what steps people on the forum had taken to come to a place where they were now free so their is a positive outcome that could be shared with those of us who have not quite got there.
I know for some that has been counselling and possibly a time away from a biblical Church. It appears for yourself (petitor) it wasn’t. You appeared to have not needed healing as such? I may be wrong. I haven’t read all your posts. But instead have tirelessly worked on this forum to bring the abuses of struthers to light in order to help others. Which is great. We need that.. similar to what Jesse’s Westwood is doing for Bethel members.
I wish you the best and hope more will listen to the positive posts you make and l take action.