Hello Enkrateia.
Hadn’t recognised your pseudonym so checked back on your only other entry.
I think we could possibly be held responsible for founding the Glasgow choir :-)

So much hurt on here these past few weeks.

Amazing Grace, yes apparently there were regular meetings between the 2 now retired leaders, with the treasurer. I expect that, in true Struthers ‘back-of-a-fag-packet’ style, they just nodded everything through without paying too much attention to such worldly matters as finance.

Yes Liz .25. so much hurt.

Looking back to when the forum started the main theme is hurt and trauma. Many genuine people have suffered and continue to suffer.

If ALL look back on the truths of suffering... it has gone on for many years... too many .

So many different experiences.

I hope the forum continues and I pray that eventually the truth of what happened will come out .

"The principal of Dundee University and two senior members of its governing body have quit after a damning report into the financial collapse that led to a £22m government bailout.
The independent report said university bosses and its governing body failed multiple times to identify the worsening crisis and continued to overspend instead of responding.
It said the problems were "self-inflicted" and it should have been clear to senior members of the university that its financial position "was worse than presented".
The current principal Prof Shane O'Neill and two senior members of the university's governing bodies resigned as soon as the report was published."

Further to Amazing Grace's last post with its new data about the catastrophic final transfer to the loss-making private school.

This is what responsible people do in these situations: RESIGN.

I totally agree .

Al Duff, can you clarify please: Who are the people whom you think should resign? Current or previous Church Treasurers or members of the Board of Management for SMC? The School is no more, so the Board of Management and Treasurer for the School have disbanded. Or do you think that current Church leaders should resign?
Thanks, Al. Just wondering.

I think all the current directors of the church should offer their resignations. I don't think they are as guilty as the previous directors, but they are responsible for not whistleblowing as the catastrophe unfolded - assuming the figures are correct. The congregation might forgive them, as we did Mr Black at the last financial catastrophe, but they must 'fess up now. If the picture is not as we think it is - namely, that the bulk of the church's wealth has been transferred to the loss-making business, which in my opinion was wrong from the start, without the full consent of the congregations- then they need to come on here and present the true picture. Hope that is clear enough!

Test message - please ignore (I am having trouble uploading a post so just checking to see if a simple message works!)

There have been two very interesting stories in the press recently. Just yesterday, it was revealed that three former senior staff at the hospital where nurse Lucy Letby murdered seven babies and attempted to kill seven others have been arrested on suspicion of gross negligence manslaughter. The BBC report on the arrests goes on to say:

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BBC report on arrest of senior leaders (continued from above)
All three suspects worked on the senior leadership team at the Countess of Chester Hospital between 2015 and 2016 and were bailed after being questioned on Monday.

The arrests came after an investigation into potential corporate manslaughter at the hospital was opened in 2023, and then widened in March this year to include gross negligence manslaughter.

I found this interesting as these three people are not accused of murder or conspiracy to murder - there is no implication that they were directly involved in planning to hurt or kill these children. No, what they are accused of is failing to fulfil their duty to make sure no harm came to the children by properly managing the service and, in particular, by managing Lucy Letby and taking action when concerns were raised. Sound familiar at all?

The other quite similar story is that the Bishop of Wales has recently resigned. To once again quote the BBC:

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BBC Report regarding the resignation of the Archbishop of Wales
The Archbishop of Wales, Andrew John, announced he was retiring with immediate effect on Friday following a turbulent period for the Bangor diocese after the publication of the summaries of two critical reports.

His decision follows the publication last month of the summaries of two reports into failures at Bangor Cathedral.

The summaries mentioned "a culture in which sexual boundaries seemed blurred" and excessive alcohol consumption as well as governance and safeguarding weaknesses at Bangor Cathedral.

Ruth Jones MP said "we need to see what the reports actually say, not just the summaries”.

There is no suggestion that Mr John behaved inappropriately.

Note that final sentence, “There is no suggestion that Mr John behaved inappropriately.”

Like the three senior managers recently arrested in connection with the Lucy Letby case, the fault lies not in what he did, but what he failed to correctly manage. That is the responsibility managers/ trustees/ directors carry. It is their job to make sure others are not abusing their power.

That is why all the concerns about the behaviour of Alison Speirs ultimately fall on the Directors, past and present. Every single criticism of Alison Speirs or of any other leader is ultimately a damning inditement of the management of the organisation. This is where previous management failed badly and current management are now failing even more spectacularly, as they do not even have any idea about what went wrong, no matter how to correct it.

As Al Duff has so ably pointed out, the same is true of the financial crises (plural!) People were responsible. They should explain what happened, apologise and offer their resignations.

In summary then, we can see from these publicly reported cases, including the financial one quoted by Al Duff, that senior managers in a University, a Health Board, and in the Anglican Church are being held to account in terms of the responsibility the carry or carried. This responsibility has led to resignations and arrests.

That same accountability applies to Struthers.

No matter what they say, they are accountable, and they will have to face that. All the obfuscation and their naive plea that the best way to deal with it is not to deal with it at all but to look the other way simply delays the inevitable and makes it more likely to lead to resignations and other serious consequences.

If you look back a year or so on this forum you will see a number of people held out genuine hope that the new Directors would take their responsibility seriously, but that is certainly not what is happening. Rather than investigation, openness, transparency and genuine attempts to understand what went wrong and offer redress what we have is “sloppy shoulders” with people going “not my problem: if you feel bad about things go and see someone who can help you feel better.” That is not even meeting the standard of this world and the expectations of secular media, and is the exact opposite of God’s standards which are about justice, correcting wrongs, putting the needs of others first, kindness, honesty and integrity.

The leaders of Struthers would do well to imagine that the letter regarding the situation in Bangor from the Revd Dr John Prysor-Jones and the Very Revd Professor Gordon McPhate (enclosed below) was addressed to them. I think there are many, many parallels here, and the approach advocated in this letter could and should be applied to the concerns expressed in this forum.

Note in particular the final sentence - “there can be no peace without justice.” That is scriptural folks. You have to get back to what scripture says and what you are commanded to do, not bury your head in the sand and hope it will all go away.

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Letter from the Revd Dr John Prysor-Jones and the Very Revd Professor Gordon McPhate
Madam, — We write as members of the College of Priests at St Deiniol’s Cathedral, Bangor, where we have worshipped for 13 and eight years, respectively, since retirement. We have a sacramental, preaching, and pastoral ministry, but take no part in the management of the cathedral. Between us, we have had more than 70 years of ministry in parish, cathedral, hospital, and university settings, in which we have both held senior management positions.

After the Visitation of Bangor Cathederal, recommendations were published, and a process of implementation was outlined. Being told to simply “move on” is, however, insufficient for many in the cathedral community. Our impression is that several younger employed people and students have stopped worshipping with us. The reputational damage to the cathedral, the diocese, and the Church in Wales is considerable.

The published report is unsatisfactory because it was limited by narrow terms of reference, and so the Visitation team did not take evidence and make findings of fact, instead reaching conclusions based on impressions, with a disproportionate focus on the cathedral choir.

The report seems to ignore the unhappy 14-year history of staff leaving the cathedral — including successive Deans, five clergy, a Director of Music, and a verger — some of whom suffered physically and mentally, and it has been rumoured that substantial out-of-court settlements were paid. Further rumours of financial mismanagement, possibly involving illegality, raise more questions. The cathedral community has little confidence in the ability of the Chapter to lead the implementation of the recommendations, based on its past performance.

When the Sub-Dean suddenly left the cathedral early in 2024, our advice was that an Acting Dean should be appointed for a fixed period to ensure stability, continuity, direction, trust-building, and ongoing pastoral care; otherwise, chaos would ensue, which has happened. This would still be our advice, to ensure that the implementation process is complete before the appointment of a new Dean. The advertisement for the Dean’s post is, however, already on the diocesan website and in the Church Times, but combined with responsibility for a ministry area.

Province should commission a formal inquiry into the diocese of Bangor and its cathedral since 2011, and that this should be led by an external person of proven ability to find the truth, with a theological and pastoral background, assisted by advisers in organisational management, canon law, civil law, and criminal law. That person would have power to see all documentation, take evidence, make findings of fact, make recommendations, and ensure publication of the final report.

The claim of confidentiality has left too many legitimate questions unanswered.
The peace that Jesus brings is deeply rooted in confronting what is wrong, in putting things right, in restoring relationships, and in releasing the oppressed. There can be no peace without justice.

JOHN PRYSOR-JONES
GORDON McPHATE