Hi
Falkirkbairn
‘What's has got to me more is how they have said I'm mentally unbalanced’

This is indeed appalling and inappropriate

Falkirkbairn you have worth and your worth is not in anyway linked to what struthers think or say about you….I know you know this but Im just re-stating it.
Your mental health or general health or anything about you is none of their business now. What I mean is that they have absolutely no right to gossip about you. If it is the congregation that are doing this then the leadership, Jennifer Jack or Diana Rutherford should be chastising them and making it clear that gossip is unacceptable. If the leaders are doing this then as Shepherds they are falling into the hands of God, so they should stop now and repent.
The only facts they should be addressing about you are those that have been presented to them by 31:8 and the leaders should be doing that in a confidential manner.

These are a people who have hardened their hearts if they persist in taking someone’s suffering and making out it’s either nothing, wearisome, lies or twist facts so it makes out the sufferer to be someone not to be trusted.
Their response might be ‘we have a right to defend ourselves’ my response to you is ‘no you don’t’ you should be defending the gospel of Christ and all that means, if you truly serve Christ as you say you do. Don’t you realise it’s not how anointed you are with reference to the gifts but the fruits that you present which are important. What fruit are you presenting when you callously step on the vulnerable or those in pain. As a Church you have a chance in this time of change to be accountable for historic or present suffering. Will you as a people humble yourselves and finally address the mistakes that were made. I’m also talking to the congregation. You are not holding leadership accountable but have treated them as ‘untouchable’ because they have some ‘secret’ knowledge given to them by God. There is no ‘secret’ knowledge. The knowledge of God (which he has been given to man)is an open book - it’s called the Bible.
Can I say that the people on this forum simply want matters that have arisen to be addressed and changes made so that similar abuses of power will not happen in the future.
AG

Blackwater hope you dont mind I pm you .

Wha5 would you like to know more?

Sorry u blame last post was I had not long woke up TYPOS were bad

That was meant to read

Blackwatch I hope you dont mind I have sent you a pm . What would you like to know im more than happy to answer anything .

Hi
Was watching this video on YouTube from young man called mat mason on the question of what authority does a pastor have in the church. He shows a clip from John Mcarthur which I think sums up the answer
[youtu.be]

Very interesting
AG

Wow. Words last Saturday from Diana herself:

"When there are troubling things happening in the church of Jesus Christ, and the devil is always out to trouble so it's quite usual and quite normal for troubling things to happen, when that happens we need to keep ourselves away from criticism. And we need to keep ourselves in Christ that no poisonous roots of bitterness grows up to trouble you. Because, what happens, is when you begin to be troubled, that corrupts other people. Because you cannot help but let it corrupt other people. When something troubles you we need to take it to Christ, when something troubles you we need to speak to the leadership, when something troubles you you need to get rid of it. Don't go about thinking, why did that happen?"

In short, any criticism of Struthers is of the devil, and anyone listening to it is a corrupting influence. This is how cults operate on a basic level.

"When there are troubling things happening in the church of Jesus Christ, and the devil is always out to trouble so it's quite usual and quite normal for troubling things to happen, when that happens we need to keep ourselves away from criticism. And we need to keep ourselves in Christ that no poisonous roots of bitterness grows up to trouble you. Because, what happens, is when you begin to be troubled, that corrupts other people. Because you cannot help but let it corrupt other people. When something troubles you we need to take it to Christ, when something troubles you we need to speak to the leadership, when something troubles you you need to get rid of it. Don't go about thinking, why did that happen?"

This is just absolute rambling drivel from a clown that's making it up as they go along. Spouting whatever thought-flatuosity enters their head. A whited sepulcher. A clanging gong. Chaff blown about by the wind. . .

> This is just absolute rambling drivel from a clown
> that's making it up as they go along. Spouting
> whatever thought-flatuosity enters their head. A
> whited sepulcher. A clanging gong. Chaff blown
> about by the wind. . .


My thoughts exactly. They /she makes so many things up.

I feel the last six months I have had my eyes open to so much crap they have said and done . I feel somone should write a book of folks experience in this church .it's like living on soap world at times the drama but the hurt they have caused to people's life.

I know the past six months I have continued writing my journal with things I have been told and happened to me each day.I have always kept a journal./diary. Reading back on this the last six months it's shocking what I have heard and witness but what sums them up in my eyes is
THEY DON'T GIVE A DAM OF WHO THEY HURT OR DISTROY AS LONG AS THEY GET OTHERS TO BELIEVE I6S NOT THERE FAULT ITS SATAN TRYING TO ATTACK THE CHURCH.

WHATS TOTAL CRAP IN MY EYES what do you all think?

Entirely agree with the insightful and 100% valid condemnation of this incoherent unbiblical nonsense from the pulpit of the Struthers leader.

And I would like to examine the phrase:
"Don't go about thinking, why did that happen?"


As ever In Struthers the pretence is only the devil creates problems but the leaders never do with their mistakes, foolishness, ignorance and idiocy. So to wonder why something happened, is the same as being critical of that thing happening! And the resultant trouble you feel understanding "what happened" automatically will corrupt others! So go to God (but really the leaders) and they will tell you what to think.

Nothing culty about any of that is there?


But public sermons invite further public debate so let’s test some recent events by this standard.


What if we think the school was a long term, costly, possibly terminal mistake for Struthers which appealed to a bunch of teachers who were pretending to be called to pastor in various towns but ran away from that at the first opportunity to spend their time on a private school which robbed the churches blind and then failed utterly. A wander in the desert that took about 30 years.

"Don't go about thinking, why did that happen?"


What if we think this forum revealing the truth of the impact Struthers has on people is an unaddressed running sore on this church which the leadership cannot any longer pretend to ignore but they must deal with. Their past failures and the harm they have done must now be truthfully spoken of and acknowledged. If the claim is still “only the devil creates problems” it simply shows the callous ignorance and uncaring attitude of the present church leaders and the present executive. It claims they are infallible. What if we think that attitude condemns the Struthers churches to decline, failure and irrelevance because no healthy biblical church would behave like this and not care. If someone still attending Struthers thought this determination to pretend there is no real problem was likely to be unhelpful to the church being successful in the future what are they told to do with that eminently reasonable thought? Struthers only have one solution.

"Don't go about thinking, why did that happen?"


What if we think the rate of members departing Struthers churches in the last few weeks is staggering and by all reports seems to be nothing but accelerating? What if we cannot believe some of the names we are hearing of who have left? Longstanding pillars of the church, leaders and future leaders (so identified for decades) and financial contributors marching out not wanting to identify with this failing regime any longer or take responsibility for its ethical and financial failures?

"Don't go about thinking, why did that happen?"


What if we are appalled and amazed by the staggering lack of “mea culpa” from the new leader of the churches as she berates the congregation about giving more money to cover the costs of closing the school and the generous redundancy agreements the executive set up for their friends? The need for local churches miles away to give more to facilitate repairs to ancient crumbling buildings – some of which (like the Glasgow church) she and some of the other present leaders actively campaigned and successfully persuaded Mr Black to purchase. AND to settle bills which apparently should have been paid years ago! (Whit?) In case the church goes bankrupt (which seems to be Mrs Rutherfords new favourite word) just hand over more of your money for the foreseeable future to these infallible leaders.

"Don't go about thinking, why did that happen?"

TheGreek (and others),

Absolutely. There is so much about this that is unscriptural. Apart from the phrase you have quite correctly highlighted, the whole premiss here is wrong.

The quote begins with, “When there are troubling things happening in the church of Jesus Christ”

Well, there may be troubling things happening in the church of Jesus Christ, but that is not actually what they are talking about, is it? What they are talking about is troubling things happening in their small organisation. An organisation that is meant to be part of the church of Jesus Christ, not the whole church.

As Blackwatch said quite recently:

Quote
Blackwatch
It's amazing that most local churches have survived (in some cases hundreds of years) without controversy or scandal of any kind. There's always going to be divisions and disagreements - that's human nature. That's not what we're talking about here.

This is a church absolutely steeped in controversy and personal tragedy and yet none of it has ever been addressed. Additionally, questions have always been asked around finances - and who can forget the BT Shares scandal? Today, we STILL find the same questions being asked.

The people I genuinely feel sorry for are the good, kind-hearted folks who blindly trust the leaders. None of them would agree with nor would want to be part of the hurt and the pain that's been inflicted but yet, by not challenging it and facing up to it, they are complicit. It's like they're paralysed or under some kind of spell and unable to do their civil duty. That's the real awakening that's needed here.

And the point about Struthers only being a (very small) part of the church leads to all sorts of considerations. First, the Bible says at 1 Cor 12v12

Quote
1 Cor 12v12
Just as a body, though one, has many parts, but all its many parts form one body, so it is with Christ.

Then at verse 15 and 16,

Quote
1 Cor 12v15
Now if the foot should say, “Because I am not a hand, I do not belong to the body,” it would not for that reason stop being part of the body. And if the ear should say, “Because I am not an eye, I do not belong to the body,” it would not for that reason stop being part of the body.

And at verse 21,

Quote
1 Cor 12v21
The eye cannot say to the hand, “I don’t need you!” And the head cannot say to the feet, “I don’t need you!

A great deal of the criticism on this forum and elsewhere is from Christians who care about the behaviour and reputation of the church. So what should be being said here is, “We are all part of the same body. We cannot stop being part of that body, the Bible tells us that. Other parts of the body are hurt by what we are doing, and we need to do something about that.”


How did the early church deal with criticism from within? In Acts 6, we read:

Quote
Act 6v1-5
In those days when the number of disciples was increasing, the Hellenistic Jews among them complained against the Hebraic Jews because their widows were being overlooked in the daily distribution of food. So the Twelve gathered all the disciples together and said, “It would not be right for us to neglect the ministry of the word of God in order to wait on tables. Brothers and sisters, choose seven men from among you who are known to be full of the Spirit and wisdom. We will turn this responsibility over to them and will give our attention to prayer and the ministry of the word.”

This proposal pleased the whole group.

That would be the scriptural way forward. Open discussion, not a closed meeting; the appointment of independent people full of wisdom; a result that pleased the whole group (because it addressed their concerns). Instead, we have what is basically waffle and drivel, “it's quite usual and quite normal for troubling things to happen, when that happens we need to keep ourselves away from criticism.” Eh? Chapter and verse for that please! Where on earth is that approach promoted by scripture? “We need to keep ourselves away from criticism”?

If that is the correct approach, why did the apostles not take that approach with the Hellenistic Jews? This is a total disregard for scripture and a substitution of the false authority of a preacher for the true authority of the word of God.

I could spend even longer on the next part, “when you begin to be troubled, that corrupts other people, because you cannot help but let it corrupt other people. “ but it is hardly worth it, this is just unscriptural nonsense. There is nothing remotely like this message in scripture or in the experience of the church. No biography or theological work supports this nonsensical idea.

We then come to “When something troubles you we need to take it to Christ, when something troubles you we need to speak to the leadership.” Well, some truth in that, but there are a number of problems in this context. For starters, read again the story from Acts 6 that I quote above. That is what wise and spiritual leaders did when approached with a “trouble”. If I thought that was how the leaders of Struthers were going to react, I would be fairly comfortable with members of the congregation going to the leaders. We know that is not what will happen though, don’t we? It is right there in the message – “you need to get rid of it”. If you go to the leaders, they will not act as the apostles did and appoint wise people to look into it, they will try to make you “get rid of it”. (As an aside, that will of course not actually work, people will not be able to “get rid of it” – if that approach did work, many people on this forum would not still be troubled by the hurtful actions of the leaders.)

There are many testimonies on this forum that confirm individuals have indeed taken things to God and, believing it to be an issue, then taken it to the leaders. The leader have not however believed it to be a genuine concern, something that needed addressed, or something that people had genuinely taken to God (since it did not get the answer they wanted).

And that part, “When something troubles you, you need to get rid of it.” is 100% the opposite of what Scripture says. Scripture never, ever suggests that a problem will go way because you stop thinking about it. The only examples it gives of people who stop thinking about things are when their heart is hardened – a thing that is always bad for the person. If someone ever says, “well, this was troubling me but now I just don’t think about it", the only scriptural explanation is their heart is hardened and they are not listening to the voice of God. You do not need to take my word for it, search the scriptures and you will see for yourself that is the case.

TheGreek has already brilliantly covered the final bit that says, "Don't go about thinking, why did that happen?" so I don't need to add anything on that (except to cheekily say she might as well have stopped at the work thinking, as that is the real message - "don't go about thinking."


In 2 Corinthians 11, Paul warns his readers that, “… if someone comes to you and preaches a Jesus other than the Jesus we preached, or if you receive a different spirit from the Spirit you received, or a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it easily enough."

Folks, read the quote from Diana, read my thoughts above, read what TheGreek and others have said and, most importantly, read the scriptures to see if what the true message is.

People can believe whatever they want, but they cannot believe what they want and call it Biblical Christianity. Diana’s words clearly contradict what is said in the Bible. What Diana is asking you to do is accept a Jesus other than the one you accepted. You cannot remain faithful to God and accept the message from Diana that is quoted in the posts above. You have to "chose this day whom you will serve".



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/30/2024 07:48PM by ThePetitor.