Re: Guru Swami G
Posted by:
XRohan
()
Date: June 25, 2013 06:26AM
Am taking it step by step things are going pretty good have alot of resentment for her because I gave 4 yrs of my life and her answer to me leaving was WELL I`M NOT SURPRISED YOU DIDNT COME TO ANY OF THE RETREATS ETC. HAVE A NICE LIFE !!! No why are you leaving or take a month off like she used to preach way back when she was at least acting like she cared about us that is what gets me,
Re: Guru Swami G
Posted by:
Vera City
()
Date: June 25, 2013 08:29AM
Quote
Guru Watch
Vera City: I hope you are not implying that we should stop asking questions about claims that guruswamig is making? “People who give up their freedom for a little security end up with neither”[/i] That would be very sad. Sad indeed...GuruWatch
Guru Watch seriously misunderstood my post. It had nothing to do with the quote (taken out of context) related to our national security or government policy.
This post is for everyone reading the forum. Because of extensive TROLL activity on many threads, this forum is well monitored for good reasons. It provides a safe and FREE place for people to discuss cult systems and processes, how to recover from damages, and how to avoid them altogether. It is not a place for people to preach philosophy, promote gurus, or defend destructive cults. They are free to start their own forum elsewhere.
The Cult Education Forum provides extensive resources, as well as a place to discuss personal experiences and express opinions, within the rules. These guidelines are quite reasonable, unlike the group norms usually practiced in the cults that are critiqued here.
If There be Trolls Lurking About
Re: Guru Swami G
Posted by:
diddly
()
Date: June 25, 2013 08:52AM
Guru Watch cannot respond with first hand experience. I can. You too, John, have very little first hand experience as your communications and involvement has been primarily through the online group and at a few retreats. I, on the other hand, had consistent and contintual interaction via the groups, phone calls, Skype sessions, emails and retreats. Not to mention I did her "counseling".
Yes it is my personal opinion that this teacher is realized. The evidence is ultimately, and admittedly, subjective, and I have no desire to try and convince anyone of the veracity of something I personally take as no longer a matter of belief.
As a matter of FACT, you DO have to take it as belief. Prove to me, John, her "realization". Her "realization", too, is a subjective matter in as much as your belief is subjective. While it's a convienient and comforting belief, it is still only a belief.
All are free to make their own determination. All who have ever left were wished well (and I personally sincerely wish them well) and, as far as I know left completely alone, as is only right, ethical and proper.
I am not alone. Alone, perhaps, in the sense that I am not allowing someone with claims of something I cannot prove to dictate my life while their very own life is in shambles. Then, yes, I am not following any such person any longer. But "being alone" is a rather naive statement, as if the people that leave then wander aimlessly without any support, direction or cause.
You, too, John are wished well. All of those that remain are wished well. Even your teacher herself is wished well. What is no longer wished for is "wishful thinking" or denying the obvious contradictions, concerns, quite valid questionable behavior that has and remains to be a very serious happening with said teacher. Contrary to what you might believe and wish to assume, people have been hurt by her in ways you aren't able to fully grasp or comprehend right now simply because, if you were to do so, it would mean the very person you are following could no longer be followed. I know that desire (to see her as untouchable) and fear (to question her behavior). I lived it long and well.
Just because the teacher is very difficult does not make them a fraud.
Have you not seen the concerns posted here outside of her "crazy wisdom", anger or rage? The FACT is there are endless examples of behavior that she has never answered adequately (not to mention how strange it is that you must come here to answer for her. Have you stopped to wonder why your teacher can't clean up her own mess, but relies upon the fears of her students to do so for her?) and which fail even the loosest maesurement of "acceptable behavior".
People go to physical fitness "boot camps," don't they? Nor is it expected for the teacher to work for free -- Some very charitable people insist on payment just so that the service rendered will be valued and the instruction followed. Some teachers can be quite difficult --
John, you are using her speech and justification. How do I know? Becuase I've heard the very thing from the horse's mouth. Please, I beg of you (sincerely, from my knees, John), to use your reason, logic and judgement. I know you are capable, John! You are intelligent, successful in business and such a sincere man. I've know and have long known this about you. And I KNOW the temptation to sweep the horrible displays of contradictions, inconsistencies, moral and ethical violations under the rug. I have lived them, so please know that I understand. I don't want to insult you, John. Not now and not ever. If I ever did, please accept my sincerest of apologies. But, I am here to simply speak what I know, first hand, to be true and am no longer afraid to allow the good public (including all her students past and present) to see. And I know you want the truth; you are earnestly seeking it! To find the truth, you must be willing and able to criticize even the "most high" or "most holy". Why? To ensure that you aren't under some delluded fantasy, chasing ghosts or hiding behind mirages of spiritual hopes and ideals. Please, John, please ... be willing. Just be willing.
The use of Clonazepam, was openly stated by the Guru long, long ago. There are no surprises here, and realized beings still have nervous systems. The psychological effects of PTSD are gone but the Guru has, for a long long time, stated that certain things still trigger a physical response, just that there is no mental/emotional residue attached to it.
That's quite convienient and still does not warrant a) her belittling, mocking, condeming and/or mocking those that are on / have been on / are seeking to be on something of similar kind for similiar or even various reasons, and b) for acting as doctor, psychiatrist, nurse, psychologist, therapist WITHOUT a license, with NO training and NO education (for not only persuading others to get off or not take said medications, but also "treating" in home a student and taking him off them herself). Reason, John. Logic. Common sense. USE THEM!
I have personally seen (very) many students turned away because there were psychological issues revealed and the Guru felt that they were not suited -- that their condition was too complicated, and that for reasons of safety and health they were better off with another venue.
I have, too. Remember, I was there. However, where you now see "compassion", I see "calculation". These good folks were often the ones that reacted most sharply to her behavior and, barring that she couldn't keep them quiet or restrained, she sent them on her way. Has she acted unethically in every single circumstance? No. But, even serial killers have good qualities.
The Guru has stated that the disability (what percentage, I do not know) received from the Govt. is military disability due to PTSD trauma suffered from horrific sexual abuse while in service.
And? Is she still suffering? Yes? Then, she is not a "guru". Is she no longer suffering? No, she isn't suffering? Then she should not be taking disability. What she went through WAS traumatic and horribly debilitating. I have DEEP compassion and understanding for that. What she needs is TREATMENT if she is suffering and should, purely on ethical and moral considerations (let alone the likelihood of horrible consequences for herself and others), stop acting as a "guru". If she is not suffering, then she needs to be HONEST and get off of disability. For everyone that wronged any of us in our lives, should we profit or benefit from them or that for the rest of our lives? She should know better than most about forgiveness, letting go, moving on. You can try to twist it any way you want, but it won't stand up in court and certainly falls flat in the face of even the most rudimentary valuation using common sense.
I have been with the group for a while and will say this:
I will not judge those who have left. Many, many people (beyond counting) leave, for what seems to be a variety of reasons.
I have personally never witnessed or experienced anything unethical. Have I seen the Guru give people a hard time? Yes. Have I seen people have difficulties with the Guru's personality? Yes.
It's a start, but you've got a long ways to go to catch up with the reality of what is happening. Please, KEEP GOING!
I will not speak for those who may have left, but from what I have observed, for those who leave with resentment it usually seems to come down to two things (or a combination of the two).
1. They feel personally disrespected by the Guru's teaching style. The crazy wisdom modality is basically an insult to the ego from top to bottom. Swami-G's own Guru acted in this way to her and the story is well-known to anyone with a little time on their hands.
John, she acts that way to everyone, not just her students. Is she a "crazy wisdom guru" to the waitor, the clerk, the server? Nope, but she treats them as horribly and in the same way she treats her students; rudely, with contempt, bitterness and irritation. How do I know? I been sitting right next to her (numerous times) when it's happened. Should we all start treating people as poorly as her, even in our normal day to day activities? Can you imagine the world we would live in? We'd all end up killing one another simply out of spite, anger, rage and bitterness all in the name of "crazy wisdom".
Recall, too, that at the most prestigious and respected Zen monastery in Japan (eihei-ji) life is very hard. The novice monks are treated like dirt. They undergo what we would consider physical and psychological torment and the senior monks smack their faces if they so much as look them in the eye (I do not exaggerate). This is well documented in the bestseller Eat Sleep Sit. I have never seen the Guru expect any student to undergo anything of the kind.
In the Christian world, being a monk is not always easy, and, for example, for the Monks on Mt. Athos one takes a vow never to leave. Visitors are hissed at for folding their hands improperly in prayer. Are we to consider this abuse as well?
You'd have to ask those involved. Those people also aren't under question in this thread, your teacher is.
2. The Guru's lifestyle and deportment does not conform to what they personally consider a Guru's lifestyle should be -- note this does not mean they witness anything actually improper or unethical. It means they are turned off by the fact that the Guru wears makeup and jewlery, dotes on her pet dog, plays an instrument or two, likes to sell cell-phone covers, buys a motorcycle, takes Clonazepam, had gastric bypass surgery, likes to eat meat, watches Jerry Springer, enjoys listening to Barbara Streisand, dances Flamenco. . . That sort of thing. If anyone wants to add to the list, they are free to do so as I am probably forgetting a thing or two. I do not think that any of these things makes one a fraud--and they are, indeed, openly displayed, not hidden. One never finds revealed a discrepancy between public and private life. Much of it too has to do with the fact that holiness does not mean conforming to a set of external criteria -- it is, at times, a lesson in itself.
It is interesting, though not at all surprising to me, that you have failed to address the very real, moral and ethical concerns. Again (and because it isn't YOUR job to answer them, no matter how she may guilt any student to go and answer for her or not matter how much a student may feel the need to defend their ideology):
1. Does she have PTSD? Does she get funds under the pretense of a phsychological condition?
2. If she is not disabled, why is she taking monies under a false pretense and not working?
3. If "guru-ing" is her job, why is she still taking disability monies (considering, by her activities / acquisitions, she has plenty of money to survive without it)?
4. Who pays for her housing, her bills, her day to day expenses?
5. Who pays for her expensive (she spent a few grand on a violin late last year ... one instrument among many) instruments, jewelry, the Rolex, the business ventures, the motorcycles, the cars?
6. What does she claim or file for taxes? Does she claim on the funds she receives (as stated above) in her taxes?
7. Does she have a license, edcuation and training to practice medicine? Is she licensed to treat someone to get off of their meds?
8. Does she have a license, education and training to counsel, treat addiction, treat pscyhological disorders?
9. She treats addiction, yet herself is addicted to food. Her health problems, not to mention her admitted inability to stop eating (which is called "addiction") actually required gastric bypass surgery, bought and paid for by a former student.
Should we go on? I have more, if those items still look too "innocent" or "ethical" for your taste.
What seems to be never mentioned is the fact that this Guru's personality is not always difficult but also displays great concern, compassion and tenderness too when this is warranted.
This is no measure of aptitude. Even the most degraded of all people have good qualities.
Anyway, that is all I have to say for now. And please, I do respect the fact that people have a right to their opinion and to express it wherever they may please. I just hope that what I have written adds a different perspective in a constructive manner.
I do appreciate your coming here. I appreciate your predicament and truly wish you the best. Do what you will, just take good care of yourself as much as you are able.
My best to you and all.
Holly
--JL.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/25/2013 09:05AM by diddly.
Yes it is my personal opinion that this teacher is realized. The evidence is ultimately, and admittedly, subjective, and I have no desire to try and convince anyone of the veracity of something I personally take as no longer a matter of belief.
As a matter of FACT, you DO have to take it as belief. Prove to me, John, her "realization". Her "realization", too, is a subjective matter in as much as your belief is subjective. While it's a convienient and comforting belief, it is still only a belief.
All are free to make their own determination. All who have ever left were wished well (and I personally sincerely wish them well) and, as far as I know left completely alone, as is only right, ethical and proper.
I am not alone. Alone, perhaps, in the sense that I am not allowing someone with claims of something I cannot prove to dictate my life while their very own life is in shambles. Then, yes, I am not following any such person any longer. But "being alone" is a rather naive statement, as if the people that leave then wander aimlessly without any support, direction or cause.
You, too, John are wished well. All of those that remain are wished well. Even your teacher herself is wished well. What is no longer wished for is "wishful thinking" or denying the obvious contradictions, concerns, quite valid questionable behavior that has and remains to be a very serious happening with said teacher. Contrary to what you might believe and wish to assume, people have been hurt by her in ways you aren't able to fully grasp or comprehend right now simply because, if you were to do so, it would mean the very person you are following could no longer be followed. I know that desire (to see her as untouchable) and fear (to question her behavior). I lived it long and well.
Just because the teacher is very difficult does not make them a fraud.
Have you not seen the concerns posted here outside of her "crazy wisdom", anger or rage? The FACT is there are endless examples of behavior that she has never answered adequately (not to mention how strange it is that you must come here to answer for her. Have you stopped to wonder why your teacher can't clean up her own mess, but relies upon the fears of her students to do so for her?) and which fail even the loosest maesurement of "acceptable behavior".
People go to physical fitness "boot camps," don't they? Nor is it expected for the teacher to work for free -- Some very charitable people insist on payment just so that the service rendered will be valued and the instruction followed. Some teachers can be quite difficult --
John, you are using her speech and justification. How do I know? Becuase I've heard the very thing from the horse's mouth. Please, I beg of you (sincerely, from my knees, John), to use your reason, logic and judgement. I know you are capable, John! You are intelligent, successful in business and such a sincere man. I've know and have long known this about you. And I KNOW the temptation to sweep the horrible displays of contradictions, inconsistencies, moral and ethical violations under the rug. I have lived them, so please know that I understand. I don't want to insult you, John. Not now and not ever. If I ever did, please accept my sincerest of apologies. But, I am here to simply speak what I know, first hand, to be true and am no longer afraid to allow the good public (including all her students past and present) to see. And I know you want the truth; you are earnestly seeking it! To find the truth, you must be willing and able to criticize even the "most high" or "most holy". Why? To ensure that you aren't under some delluded fantasy, chasing ghosts or hiding behind mirages of spiritual hopes and ideals. Please, John, please ... be willing. Just be willing.
The use of Clonazepam, was openly stated by the Guru long, long ago. There are no surprises here, and realized beings still have nervous systems. The psychological effects of PTSD are gone but the Guru has, for a long long time, stated that certain things still trigger a physical response, just that there is no mental/emotional residue attached to it.
That's quite convienient and still does not warrant a) her belittling, mocking, condeming and/or mocking those that are on / have been on / are seeking to be on something of similar kind for similiar or even various reasons, and b) for acting as doctor, psychiatrist, nurse, psychologist, therapist WITHOUT a license, with NO training and NO education (for not only persuading others to get off or not take said medications, but also "treating" in home a student and taking him off them herself). Reason, John. Logic. Common sense. USE THEM!
I have personally seen (very) many students turned away because there were psychological issues revealed and the Guru felt that they were not suited -- that their condition was too complicated, and that for reasons of safety and health they were better off with another venue.
I have, too. Remember, I was there. However, where you now see "compassion", I see "calculation". These good folks were often the ones that reacted most sharply to her behavior and, barring that she couldn't keep them quiet or restrained, she sent them on her way. Has she acted unethically in every single circumstance? No. But, even serial killers have good qualities.
The Guru has stated that the disability (what percentage, I do not know) received from the Govt. is military disability due to PTSD trauma suffered from horrific sexual abuse while in service.
And? Is she still suffering? Yes? Then, she is not a "guru". Is she no longer suffering? No, she isn't suffering? Then she should not be taking disability. What she went through WAS traumatic and horribly debilitating. I have DEEP compassion and understanding for that. What she needs is TREATMENT if she is suffering and should, purely on ethical and moral considerations (let alone the likelihood of horrible consequences for herself and others), stop acting as a "guru". If she is not suffering, then she needs to be HONEST and get off of disability. For everyone that wronged any of us in our lives, should we profit or benefit from them or that for the rest of our lives? She should know better than most about forgiveness, letting go, moving on. You can try to twist it any way you want, but it won't stand up in court and certainly falls flat in the face of even the most rudimentary valuation using common sense.
I have been with the group for a while and will say this:
I will not judge those who have left. Many, many people (beyond counting) leave, for what seems to be a variety of reasons.
I have personally never witnessed or experienced anything unethical. Have I seen the Guru give people a hard time? Yes. Have I seen people have difficulties with the Guru's personality? Yes.
It's a start, but you've got a long ways to go to catch up with the reality of what is happening. Please, KEEP GOING!
I will not speak for those who may have left, but from what I have observed, for those who leave with resentment it usually seems to come down to two things (or a combination of the two).
1. They feel personally disrespected by the Guru's teaching style. The crazy wisdom modality is basically an insult to the ego from top to bottom. Swami-G's own Guru acted in this way to her and the story is well-known to anyone with a little time on their hands.
John, she acts that way to everyone, not just her students. Is she a "crazy wisdom guru" to the waitor, the clerk, the server? Nope, but she treats them as horribly and in the same way she treats her students; rudely, with contempt, bitterness and irritation. How do I know? I been sitting right next to her (numerous times) when it's happened. Should we all start treating people as poorly as her, even in our normal day to day activities? Can you imagine the world we would live in? We'd all end up killing one another simply out of spite, anger, rage and bitterness all in the name of "crazy wisdom".
Recall, too, that at the most prestigious and respected Zen monastery in Japan (eihei-ji) life is very hard. The novice monks are treated like dirt. They undergo what we would consider physical and psychological torment and the senior monks smack their faces if they so much as look them in the eye (I do not exaggerate). This is well documented in the bestseller Eat Sleep Sit. I have never seen the Guru expect any student to undergo anything of the kind.
In the Christian world, being a monk is not always easy, and, for example, for the Monks on Mt. Athos one takes a vow never to leave. Visitors are hissed at for folding their hands improperly in prayer. Are we to consider this abuse as well?
You'd have to ask those involved. Those people also aren't under question in this thread, your teacher is.
2. The Guru's lifestyle and deportment does not conform to what they personally consider a Guru's lifestyle should be -- note this does not mean they witness anything actually improper or unethical. It means they are turned off by the fact that the Guru wears makeup and jewlery, dotes on her pet dog, plays an instrument or two, likes to sell cell-phone covers, buys a motorcycle, takes Clonazepam, had gastric bypass surgery, likes to eat meat, watches Jerry Springer, enjoys listening to Barbara Streisand, dances Flamenco. . . That sort of thing. If anyone wants to add to the list, they are free to do so as I am probably forgetting a thing or two. I do not think that any of these things makes one a fraud--and they are, indeed, openly displayed, not hidden. One never finds revealed a discrepancy between public and private life. Much of it too has to do with the fact that holiness does not mean conforming to a set of external criteria -- it is, at times, a lesson in itself.
It is interesting, though not at all surprising to me, that you have failed to address the very real, moral and ethical concerns. Again (and because it isn't YOUR job to answer them, no matter how she may guilt any student to go and answer for her or not matter how much a student may feel the need to defend their ideology):
1. Does she have PTSD? Does she get funds under the pretense of a phsychological condition?
2. If she is not disabled, why is she taking monies under a false pretense and not working?
3. If "guru-ing" is her job, why is she still taking disability monies (considering, by her activities / acquisitions, she has plenty of money to survive without it)?
4. Who pays for her housing, her bills, her day to day expenses?
5. Who pays for her expensive (she spent a few grand on a violin late last year ... one instrument among many) instruments, jewelry, the Rolex, the business ventures, the motorcycles, the cars?
6. What does she claim or file for taxes? Does she claim on the funds she receives (as stated above) in her taxes?
7. Does she have a license, edcuation and training to practice medicine? Is she licensed to treat someone to get off of their meds?
8. Does she have a license, education and training to counsel, treat addiction, treat pscyhological disorders?
9. She treats addiction, yet herself is addicted to food. Her health problems, not to mention her admitted inability to stop eating (which is called "addiction") actually required gastric bypass surgery, bought and paid for by a former student.
Should we go on? I have more, if those items still look too "innocent" or "ethical" for your taste.
What seems to be never mentioned is the fact that this Guru's personality is not always difficult but also displays great concern, compassion and tenderness too when this is warranted.
This is no measure of aptitude. Even the most degraded of all people have good qualities.
Anyway, that is all I have to say for now. And please, I do respect the fact that people have a right to their opinion and to express it wherever they may please. I just hope that what I have written adds a different perspective in a constructive manner.
I do appreciate your coming here. I appreciate your predicament and truly wish you the best. Do what you will, just take good care of yourself as much as you are able.
My best to you and all.
Holly
--JL.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/25/2013 09:05AM by diddly.
Re: Guru Swami G
Posted by:
diddly
()
Date: June 25, 2013 10:40AM
I am all too painfully aware that the teacher in this instance has long trained her students to regard anything as "ego driven". With that said, we shall then just look to behaviors and actions, which themselves speak more loudly than any ideal or fantascial claim ever will:
In addition to every thing listed above (1-9), here are some further examples:
10. Said teacher had 8 "sages" and one additional "guru" (or "realized beings") at one time in her group (Sarojini, Dharma, Jyoti, Udit, Barindra, Amrit, Gurudutt and Siddhananda, respectively). None of the "sages", not a single one, remains in her group. Siddhanada remains, although herself demoted and/or dethroned from "guru" status. In every single instance, each and every single one, it was the said teacher in this thread that "appointed" them. Not a single one of them ever approached her after their "experienced" and declared to her that "I am realized"; it was the teacher that "recnogized" the consciousness and "appointed" them. Then, when the behaviors / actions / doubts / further experiences raised by them came to the surface, she one by one denounced their "realization" status. This coming from the woman that long claimed "only a Realized Being can recognize another Realized Being" (which directly contradicts John's claim that he can "know" his teacher is a "realized being" when even she can't know who is a "realized being" or not). This is not at all uncomon, considering her "lineage", which has long appointed person's as "realized" when their behavior (and often their later admission) reveals the reality of something qute the opposite. Her lineage is that of Andrew Cohen (look up his "legacy" within the Rick Ross Forum or search for accounts of his former students found on the web), and Gangaji (who readily and publicly admits that she was commissioned to go forward as a guru long before she felt she was ready, having later to apologize for telling people to "destroy their personal stories"). The teacher we are discussing was pronounced the same by her guru, then sent out only two weeks after that pronouncement. Let those of us that realize any "commission" or ability to identitfy a "realized being" as completely impossible to simply allow the facts, for those that can't rely upon reason, to reveal the reality.
11. The teacher in this thread followed (by video) and then met, many years ago, a guru named Nithyananda. She publicly (you can find her comments on the web) proclaimed him as a "great realized being" doing great things in the world. Only after his own scandals became public did she suddenly take to critcizing him. Again (for John and others who wish to believe they can "know" their teacher's realization), her failure to "recognize" a "realized being" has proven completely inadequate, ineffectual and impossible.
12. There is a favorable student, one near and dear to her heart, that once attempted to break free from her (said teacher wanted this person to leave their state / residence and move cross country into her home with her). When the person all but refused, she went to her home (in WA) and demanded that she return with her or be kicked off of the path for good. Is this a choice or a threat? Said person travelled with the teacher, on the back of her motorcycle, and moved in to the teacher's home (in FL); leaving behind her home and her family.
13. Said teacher was married at the time of her "realization" (search the web, all of this information is readily available in various places). Said teacher, after her "realization", eventually divorced. Not a huge deal; however, said teacher now claims that in order for "realization" or "liberation" to be possible for ANYONE, one must be a celibate. She, too, is a renunciate; having become a renunciate AFTER "realization" (which seems about as logical as a flashlight in broad daylight). She seems to have forgotten her marital status at the time of her "realization".
14. Said teacher now refuses to give one to one guidance to anyone that is either a) not a renunciate, b) not planning on becoming a renunciate, or c) not paying for her counseling service (again, does she have a license to practice?).
15. Said teacher speaks to "unwavering devotion and surrender" to her, the guru. Said teacher never could stay with one teacher, one teaching or one ideology throughout her entire journey. Her last guru she was with for no time at all... and then he commissioned her ... blah blah ... the rest is stated above.
And, sadly, this is only but a scratch on the surface.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/25/2013 10:50AM by diddly.
In addition to every thing listed above (1-9), here are some further examples:
10. Said teacher had 8 "sages" and one additional "guru" (or "realized beings") at one time in her group (Sarojini, Dharma, Jyoti, Udit, Barindra, Amrit, Gurudutt and Siddhananda, respectively). None of the "sages", not a single one, remains in her group. Siddhanada remains, although herself demoted and/or dethroned from "guru" status. In every single instance, each and every single one, it was the said teacher in this thread that "appointed" them. Not a single one of them ever approached her after their "experienced" and declared to her that "I am realized"; it was the teacher that "recnogized" the consciousness and "appointed" them. Then, when the behaviors / actions / doubts / further experiences raised by them came to the surface, she one by one denounced their "realization" status. This coming from the woman that long claimed "only a Realized Being can recognize another Realized Being" (which directly contradicts John's claim that he can "know" his teacher is a "realized being" when even she can't know who is a "realized being" or not). This is not at all uncomon, considering her "lineage", which has long appointed person's as "realized" when their behavior (and often their later admission) reveals the reality of something qute the opposite. Her lineage is that of Andrew Cohen (look up his "legacy" within the Rick Ross Forum or search for accounts of his former students found on the web), and Gangaji (who readily and publicly admits that she was commissioned to go forward as a guru long before she felt she was ready, having later to apologize for telling people to "destroy their personal stories"). The teacher we are discussing was pronounced the same by her guru, then sent out only two weeks after that pronouncement. Let those of us that realize any "commission" or ability to identitfy a "realized being" as completely impossible to simply allow the facts, for those that can't rely upon reason, to reveal the reality.
11. The teacher in this thread followed (by video) and then met, many years ago, a guru named Nithyananda. She publicly (you can find her comments on the web) proclaimed him as a "great realized being" doing great things in the world. Only after his own scandals became public did she suddenly take to critcizing him. Again (for John and others who wish to believe they can "know" their teacher's realization), her failure to "recognize" a "realized being" has proven completely inadequate, ineffectual and impossible.
12. There is a favorable student, one near and dear to her heart, that once attempted to break free from her (said teacher wanted this person to leave their state / residence and move cross country into her home with her). When the person all but refused, she went to her home (in WA) and demanded that she return with her or be kicked off of the path for good. Is this a choice or a threat? Said person travelled with the teacher, on the back of her motorcycle, and moved in to the teacher's home (in FL); leaving behind her home and her family.
13. Said teacher was married at the time of her "realization" (search the web, all of this information is readily available in various places). Said teacher, after her "realization", eventually divorced. Not a huge deal; however, said teacher now claims that in order for "realization" or "liberation" to be possible for ANYONE, one must be a celibate. She, too, is a renunciate; having become a renunciate AFTER "realization" (which seems about as logical as a flashlight in broad daylight). She seems to have forgotten her marital status at the time of her "realization".
14. Said teacher now refuses to give one to one guidance to anyone that is either a) not a renunciate, b) not planning on becoming a renunciate, or c) not paying for her counseling service (again, does she have a license to practice?).
15. Said teacher speaks to "unwavering devotion and surrender" to her, the guru. Said teacher never could stay with one teacher, one teaching or one ideology throughout her entire journey. Her last guru she was with for no time at all... and then he commissioned her ... blah blah ... the rest is stated above.
And, sadly, this is only but a scratch on the surface.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/25/2013 10:50AM by diddly.
Re: Guru Swami G
Posted by:
John A. Lobur
()
Date: June 25, 2013 10:48AM
Quote
You too, John, have very little first hand experience as your communications and involvement has been primarily through the online group and at a few retreats. I, on the other hand, had consistent and contintual interaction via the groups, phone calls, Skype sessions, emails and retreats. Not to mention I did her "counseling".
In this you are mistaken, Holly. I had extensive Skyping with Guru too, you just don't know it, and I also had counseling, and I have probably met her in person nearly as many times as you have (you were not at the first birthday retreat) including most recently in March.
Quote
As a matter of FACT, you DO have to take it as belief. Prove to me, John, her "realization". Her "realization", too, is a subjective matter in as much as your belief is subjective. While it's a convienient and comforting belief, it is still only a belief.
You are mistaken here too. It would not be possible for any teacher to show me more, for myself, about realization than this teacher already has. I have read your accounts, too. Are you telling me you wrote them in a state of delusion?
Quote
I am not alone. Alone, perhaps, in the sense that I am not allowing someone with claims of something I cannot prove to dictate my life while their very own life is in shambles. Then, yes, I am not following any such person any longer. But "being alone" is a rather naive statement, as if the people that leave then wander aimlessly without any support, direction or cause.
That is not what I meant. I meant left alone without being bothered.
Quote
You, too, John are wished well. All of those that remain are wished well. Even your teacher herself is wished well. What is no longer wished for is "wishful thinking" or denying the obvious contradictions, concerns, quite valid questionable behavior that has and remains to be a very serious happening with said teacher. Contrary to what you might believe and wish to assume, people have been hurt by her in ways you aren't able to fully grasp or comprehend right now simply because, if you were to do so, it would mean the very person you are following could no longer be followed. I know that desire (to see her as untouchable) and fear (to question her behavior). I lived it long and well.
Well, Holly, nobody really has any concrete things to say here. Most of what I see with people are a lot of hurt feelings, and I have seen her clean house on people who were truly inclining towards the abusive. I don't see the abuse. I don't see anything unethical. I was just with her a few months ago and nobody was running around in fear. . . yes there are times when things get really challenging and there were times when your mind is like "omg this is just NOT RIGHT." On closer inspection, on actually confronting and addressing the concerns, this is never the case, at least in my experience.
Quote
Have you stopped to wonder why your teacher can't clean up her own mess, but relies upon the fears of her students to do so for her?) and which fail even the loosest maesurement of "acceptable behavior".
She's not relying on me. I'm doing this on my own. Guru does not seem too concerned with what is going on over here.
.Quote
John, you are using her speech and justification. How do I know? Becuase I've heard the very thing from the horse's mouth. Please, I beg of you (sincerely, from my knees, John), to use your reason, logic and judgement. I know you are capable, John! You are intelligent, successful in business and such a sincere man. I've know and have long known this about you. And I KNOW the temptation to sweep the horrible displays of contradictions, inconsistencies, moral and ethical violations under the rug. I have lived them, so please know that I understand. I don't want to insult you, John. Not now and not ever. If I ever did, please accept my sincerest of apologies. But, I am here to simply speak what I know, first hand, to be true and am no longer afraid to allow the good public (including all her students past and present) to see. And I know you want the truth; you are earnestly seeking it! To find the truth, you must be willing and able to criticize even the "most high" or "most holy". Why? To ensure that you aren't under some delluded fantasy, chasing ghosts or hiding behind mirages of spiritual hopes and ideals. Please, John, please ... be willing. Just be willing
That is very kind of you Holly, to be so concerned, and when I was with you I learned so much. In the end though I think somehow your mind created an Ogre that simply does not exist. I have read where you went on the journey of consciousness. I have seen all the email exchanges over the year or so you spent . . . I just cannot believe you made that up or were in a state of delusion at the time.
Quote
That's quite convienient and still does not warrant a) her belittling, mocking, condeming and/or mocking those that are on / have been on / are seeking to be on something of similar kind for similiar or even various reasons, and b) for acting as doctor, psychiatrist, nurse, psychologist, therapist WITHOUT a license, with NO training and NO education (for not only persuading others to get off or not take said medications, but also "treating" in home a student and taking him off them herself). Reason, John. Logic. Common sense. USE THEM!
Could you be exaggerating here? What were the consequences of this alleged malpractice?
Quote
Has she acted unethically in every single circumstance? No. But, even serial killers have good qualities.
Has she acted unethically in even one circumstance? Can you provide concrete details?
Quote
John, she acts that way to everyone, not just her students. Is she a "crazy wisdom guru" to the waitor, the clerk, the server? Nope, but she treats them as horribly and in the same way she treats her students; rudely, with contempt, bitterness and irritation.
This I have personally not seen, not once. I do remember she was OUTRAGED when one of us (no one knows who it was) disrespected a priest at the Catholic retreat center by stealing food that was personally marked as his private property. I also seem to recall her spending time there to take in and tend to a wounded bird that could not fly there. I have also seen her take verbal mockery with equanimity at a drag show when the MC was making fun of her tattoos. . . she insisted we go there in the first place to make sure none of her students were disrespecting or judging people because they were transvestites. I have seen her openly stand up for homosexuals, gay marriage, and I have seen her publicly defend victims of rape and abuse, even offering them a platform and encouragement for stepping forward.
You might want to ask yourself if there was so much unethical activity if the staff and owners of the various retreat centers we used over the years noticed anything. . . you know she would pounce like a lioness instantly and fearlessly at anything that lacked integrity.
As for the rest
Quote
1. Does she have PTSD? Does she get funds under the pretense of a phsychological condition?
2. If she is not disabled, why is she taking monies under a false pretense and not working?
3. If "guru-ing" is her job, why is she still taking disability monies (considering, by her activities / acquisitions, she has plenty of money to survive without it)?
She has publicly stated the nature of this in her interview on Buddha at the Gas Pump. I simply offer the further information that the trauma received was due to abuse. I ask you why she would render this information when it is so easy, as you allege, to put two and two together that she is defrauding the government.
The simple answer is that she is not, actually, defrauding the government.
Quote
4. Who pays for her housing, her bills, her day to day expenses?
5. Who pays for her expensive (she spent a few grand on a violin late last year ... one instrument among many) instruments, jewelry, the Rolex, the business ventures, the motorcycles, the cars?
6. What does she claim or file for taxes? Does she claim on the funds she receives (as stated above) in her taxes?
(Shrugs) All I can tell you it ain't me and there ain't no way she could afford to live even at the poverty level from the amounts she gets from us. You seem to be fixated on the idea that one person is being financially enslaved somehow. What's your experience with the teacher's financial demands? How many times did she milk you for more and more cash? I remember once reading you said you had little to give and she said she understood and that was fine--that just the little amount was appreciated. I know for a fact that she worked extensively with many for NO compensation at all.
Quote
7. Does she have a license, edcuation and training to practice medicine? Is she licensed to treat someone to get off of their meds?
8. Does she have a license, education and training to counsel, treat addiction, treat pscyhological disorders?
All of her services and credentials (or lack thereof) are for anyone to see for themselves on her website. Is there any evidence that the Guru is claiming to have credentials she does not possess?
Quote
9. She treats addiction, yet herself is addicted to food. Her health problems, not to mention her admitted inability to stop eating (which is called "addiction") actually required gastric bypass surgery, bought and paid for by a former student.
(Shrugs) -- she told us everything. Everything. She also had oral surgery in Mexico paid for by contributions made at the birthday retreat a year ago. So what? The kind of teacher you have to watch out for are the ones that hide stuff. She could have disappeared for 2 months and reappeared all thin and pretended to have gone on a diet. If I recall it was a matter of life-threatening diabetes.
--JL
Re: Guru Swami G
Posted by:
John A. Lobur
()
Date: June 25, 2013 11:14AM
This is correct.Quote
Said teacher had 8 "sages" and one additional "guru" (or "realized beings") at one time in her group (Sarojini, Dharma, Jyoti, Udit, Barindra, Amrit, Gurudutt and Siddhananda, respectively). None of the "sages", not a single one, remains in her group. Siddhanada remains, although herself demoted and/or dethroned from "guru" status.
You are putting words in my mouth. The seeker can recognize a genuine Guru otherwise there are no genuine seekers and there is no way of discerning a genuine Guru.Quote
This coming from the woman that long claimed "only a Realized Being can recognize another Realized Being" (which directly contradicts John's claim that he can "know" his teacher is a "realized being" when even she can't know who is a "realized being" or not).
This is not true. Papaji never recognized either. Swami G's Guru attained realization a year after Papaji's death. He is still active as a Guru. I also know she was in contact with him at least until 2005 because some of the early audio satsangs indicate as much. So she was in touch still at least 5 full years after realization and he never rescinded his acknowledgement. I remember also in 2008 or 9 her saying she was still in touch with him.Quote
Her lineage is that of Andrew Cohen (look up his "legacy" within the Rick Ross Forum or search for accounts of his former students found on the web), and Gangaji (who readily and publicly admits that she was commissioned to go forward as a guru long before she felt she was ready, having later to apologize for telling people to "destroy their personal stories"). The teacher we are discussing was pronounced the same by her guru, then sent out only two weeks after that pronouncement. Let those of us that realize any "commission" or ability to identitfy a "realized being" as completely impossible to simply allow the facts, for those that can't rely upon reason, to reveal the reality.
Is it possible you are confusing Guru's respect for Nityananda the Avadute with her distain for the contemporary Nityananda? Regardless the teacher has said many, many times that she can be fooled for a while. If you discovered that someone you once respected was doing disreputable things, would you remain silent out of fear of seeming "inconsistent?"Quote
The teacher in this thread followed (by video) and then met, many years ago, a guru named Nithyananda. She publicly (you can find her comments on the web) proclaimed him as a "great realized being" doing great things in the world. Only after his own scandals became public did she suddenly take to critcizing him. Again (for John and others who wish to believe they can "know" their teacher's realization), her failure to "recognize" a "realized being" has proven completely inadequate, ineffectual and impossible.
I am still in touch with this person. This is not accurate. She did not leave either behind, in fact she is visiting them now.Quote
12. There was a favorable student, one near and dear to her heart, that once attempted to break free from her (said teacher wanted this person to leave their state / residence and move cross country into her home with her). When the person all but refused, she went to her home (in WA.) and demanded that she return with her or be kicked off of the path for good. Is this a choice or a threat? Said person travelled with the teacher, on the back of her motorcycle, and moved in to the teacher's home; leaving behind her home and her family.
How are you in a position to know anything about what is offered at this point?Quote
14. Said teacher now refuses to give one to one guidance to anyone that is either a) not a renunciate, b) not planning on becoming a renunciate, or c) not paying for her counseling service (again, does she have a license to practice?).
Again not accurate. Guru always held him in the highest regard. She always spoke and still speaks of him with the utmost respect, as the most important teacher she ever had. His picture often appears in many of her videos.Quote
15. Said teacher speaks to "unwavering devotion and surrender" to her, the guru. Said teacher never could stay with one teacher, one teaching or one ideology throughout her entire journey. Her last guru she was with for no time at all... and then he commissioned her ... blah blah ... the rest is stated above.
Re: Guru Swami G
Posted by:
yasmin
()
Date: June 25, 2013 01:34PM
Hi Diddly, I really admire your courage in speaking your truth.
I'm not really much of a believer in realized beings guiding others, but if I was looking for a guru, in my opinion, basics like; does not need to take medication for a mental health problem, does not have a current mental health diagnosis, would seem to be required to consider someone to be enlightened.
Attatchment to food , fine jewelry and rolex watches would to me be a little bit worrying also, if I was looking for someone who was a guide to overcoming attachments to material things.
Guruwatch; thanks for your pm, sorry your previous message did not get through here; sometimes the system gliches.
How do you feel about taking medication for a mental health diagnosis, in terms of your personal opinion on what being "realized" means?
John, I think it can be very hard to question someone you have given a great deal to, and invested a lot of hope and trust in.
"Its all for your own good." Wow that has always covered an awful lot. It did in my group.
But the question is where do you draw the line. Is there anything that your Guru ( or spiritual leader , or priest) could do to someone else, or to you, that would be too much?
Wishing you and everyone here well on their life's journey.
All the best, Yasmin
I'm not really much of a believer in realized beings guiding others, but if I was looking for a guru, in my opinion, basics like; does not need to take medication for a mental health problem, does not have a current mental health diagnosis, would seem to be required to consider someone to be enlightened.
Attatchment to food , fine jewelry and rolex watches would to me be a little bit worrying also, if I was looking for someone who was a guide to overcoming attachments to material things.
Guruwatch; thanks for your pm, sorry your previous message did not get through here; sometimes the system gliches.
How do you feel about taking medication for a mental health diagnosis, in terms of your personal opinion on what being "realized" means?
John, I think it can be very hard to question someone you have given a great deal to, and invested a lot of hope and trust in.
"Its all for your own good." Wow that has always covered an awful lot. It did in my group.
But the question is where do you draw the line. Is there anything that your Guru ( or spiritual leader , or priest) could do to someone else, or to you, that would be too much?
Wishing you and everyone here well on their life's journey.
All the best, Yasmin
Re: Guru Swami G
Posted by:
XRohan
()
Date: June 25, 2013 02:13PM
poor John she has her hooks deep into him and the part about all the sages leaving was what started me looking deeper at this path and while under her spell all seems right once the spell is broken you just sit and shake your head and say wtf was i thinking shes a con artist.Just talked to another on the path and he said the only reason hes still there is he still feels the shakti lol I told him I get that from UG Kristnas videos..........
Re: Guru Swami G
Posted by:
diddly
()
Date: June 25, 2013 02:29PM
Thank you, Yasmin, for your reasonable and considerate responses.
Re: Guru Swami G
Posted by:
diddly
()
Date: June 25, 2013 03:06PM
Researching PTSD (specifically related to sexual assault, which truly and sadly, said teacher was the victim of both in childhood and later in adulthood while in the Army) reveals the true, disturbing depth of a woman, profoundly (and horrifyingly) violated, which has the common / classic symptoms of this disorder (which is to be expected and, truly, I hold deep compassion for) and which, sadly (but also be expected), has resulted in her viewing these symptoms as something wise and spiritual. I take absolutely no, not a single second, of pleasure from revealing the following:
(All of the following was gathered from [www.ptsd.va.gov], a web page hosted by the government for PTSD sufferers, their families and professionals.
What happens to women after they are sexually assaulted?
After a sexual assault, women can experience a wide range of reactions. It is extremely important to note that there is no one pattern of response. Some women respond immediately, others may have delayed reactions. Some women are affected by the assault for a long time whereas others appear to recover rather quickly.
In the early stages, many women report feeling shock, confusion, anxiety, and/or numbness. Sometimes women will experience feelings of denial. In other words, they may not fully acknowledge what has happened to them or they may downplay the intensity of the experience. This reaction may be more common among women who are assaulted by someone they know.
What are some early reactions to sexual assault?
In the first few days and weeks following the assault, it is very normal for a woman to experience intense and sometimes unpredictable emotions. She may have repeated strong memories of the event that are difficult to ignore, and nightmares are not uncommon. Women also report having difficulty concentrating and sleeping, and they may feel jumpy or on edge. While these initial reactions are normal and expected, some women may experience severe, highly disruptive symptoms that make it incredibly difficult to function in the first month following the assault. When these problems disrupt the woman's daily life, and prevent her from seeking assistance or telling friends and family members, the woman may have Acute Stress Disorder (ASD). Symptoms of ASD include:
◾Feeling numb and detached, like being in a daze or a dream, or feeling that the world is strange and unreal
◾Difficulty remembering important parts of the assault
◾Reliving the assault through repeated thoughts, memories, or nightmares
◾Avoidance of things (places, thoughts, feelings) that remind the woman of the assault
◾Anxiety or increased arousal (e.g., difficulty sleeping, concentrating, etc.)
"Feeling detached, like being in a daze or a dream, or feeling that the world is strange and unreal."
By her very admittance, said teacher claims the same feelings, though uses them as some sort of spiritual "realization" or "liberation".
"Difficult remembering ..."
I don't know the details of the assaults. I would never dare ask such invasive questions, but for sure the teacher touts "loss of memory" and "difficulty remembering" as a sign of her spiritual advancement.
".... difficulty sleeping ..."
Again, by her admission, she has admitted to as much.
What are some other reactions that women have following a sexual assault?
Anger
Many victims of sexual assault report struggling with anger after the assault. Although this is a natural reaction to such a violating event, there is some research that suggests that prolonged, intense anger can interfere with the recovery process and further disrupt a woman's life.
Shame and guilt
These feelings are common reactions to sexual assault. Some women blame themselves for what has happened or feel shameful about being an assault victim. This reaction can be even stronger among women who are assaulted by someone that they know, or who do not receive support from their friends, family, or authorities, following the incident. Shame and guilt can also get in the way of a woman's recovery by preventing her from telling others about what happened and getting assistance.
Social problems
Social problems can sometimes arise following a sexual assault. A woman can experience problems in her marital relationship or in her friendships. Sometimes an assault survivor will be too anxious or depressed to want to participate in social activities. Many women report difficulty trusting others after the assault, so it can be difficult to develop new relationships. Performance at work and school can also be affected.
Sexual problems
Sexual problems can be among the most long-standing problems experienced by women who are the victims of sexual assault. Women can be afraid of and try to avoid any sexual activity; they may experience an overall decrease in sexual interest and desire.
Alcohol and drug use
Substance abuse can sometimes become problematic for women who are the victims of assault. A large-scale study found that compared to non-victims, rape survivors were 3.4 times more likely to use marijuana, 6 times more likely to use cocaine, and 10 times more likely to use other major drugs. Often, women will report that they use these substances to control other symptoms related to their assault.
PTSD
Posttraumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD) involves a pattern of symptoms that some individuals develop after experiencing a traumatic event such as sexual assault. Symptoms of PTSD include repeated thoughts of the assault; memories and nightmares; avoidance of thoughts, feelings, and situations related to the assault; and increased arousal (e.g., difficulty sleeping and concentrating, jumpiness, irritability). One study that examined PTSD symptoms among women who were raped found that 94% of women experienced these symptoms during the two weeks immediately following the rape. Nine months later, about 30% of the women were still reporting this pattern of symptoms. The National Women's Study reported that almost 1/3 of all rape victims develop PTSD sometime during their lives and 11% of rape victims currently suffer from the disorder.
Again, just basing this on what the teacher has either a) admitted or b) revealed in action and behavior:
"... prolonged, intense anger can interfere with the recovery process and further disrupt a woman's life."
Her anger, moments of rage, irritability, impatience and rudeness duly noted. You need not be a student to receive the wrath; sadly, simply serving her lunch a restaurant fits the bill.
"Social problems and sexual problems"
She has a difficulty maintaining relationships OUTSIDE of those in her group (her daughter being only one of a few people which she is known to keep in regular contact with). She has even more difficulty maintaining relationships WITHIN her group (like it or not, deny it or not, the guru and student role is a relationship subject to all the characteristics of any relationship: mutual respect, mutual understanding, personal autonomy, trust, love, independence, etc.). She has, admittedly, had many marriages and divorces. Again, I am in no way attempting to judge the woman's psychological impairments, but her behavior. It is also no longer a surprise (and a very reasonable reaction) why she is a celibate. I understand more now then ever why she behaves, acts and believes in the ways she does.
"Alcohol and drug abuse"
While we can now see why she requires (and uses quite a bit daily) the medication she is prescribed, it can be said that the reason isn't to "take the edge off", but to "deal with the trauma" that is not only still present, but has been turned into a spiritual attainment rather than seen (as difficult for her students and even more so for her) as psychological disorder as a result of intense, repeated and prolonged trauma. Her addiction to food, therefore, is also of no surprise.
"Posttraumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD) involves a pattern of symptoms that some individuals develop after experiencing a traumatic event such as sexual assault. Symptoms of PTSD include repeated thoughts of the assault; memories and nightmares; avoidance of thoughts, feelings, and situations related to the assault; and increased arousal (e.g., difficulty sleeping and concentrating, jumpiness, irritability). One study that examined PTSD symptoms among women who were raped found that 94% of women experienced these symptoms during the two weeks immediately following the rape. Nine months later, about 30% of the women were still reporting this pattern of symptoms. The National Women's Study reported that almost 1/3 of all rape victims develop PTSD sometime during their lives and 11% of rape victims currently suffer from the disorder."
She claims to have no thoughts, none, what-so-ever. She also claims this is a sign of "spiritual advancement". Her irritability and anger, touted as "crazy wisdom", can be verified by all of her students (past and present); but is by no means limited to them. You need only serve her in a restaurant, be her cashier in a grocery store, or someone she happens to meet in the throws of her anger and anxiety. It is, given her admitted diagnosis (which she also admits, by her drug use and disability funds alone, is still be treated for). The difference between her students and her doctor is he ascribes her symptoms as classical, documented and definite characteristics for what he is treating for; where as, on the contrary, those of us wanting to believe labeled them all as "spiritual".
She is not a woman to be feared (out of fear of "hell", damnation or walking away from a guru); she is simply a woman struggling to come to terms with her trauma, to disassociate through spiritual feel good ideals, and doing what ever one else on the planet is doing and has always done: looking for peace and happiness.
There is a wonderful movie (available on Netflix, that I know of) called 'Kumare'. It is about a man that pretends to be a guru, dupes many willing believers, though repeatedly tells them "I am not who you think I am". In the end he reveals his con. I'm afraid we've simply fallen for the same. And, sadly (for us), she has always told us: I suffer from and currently being treated for PTSD. It's all there; we were just too afraid to look for ourselves and use our own judgment, reason and logic.
In lieu of this, not much else need be said. It's clear. Whether or not another chooses to see, or close their eyes, is always and forever more up to that individual.
Peace and love (even to this teacher. May she, most of all, find help, peace and some love).
Holly
xo
(All of the following was gathered from [www.ptsd.va.gov], a web page hosted by the government for PTSD sufferers, their families and professionals.
What happens to women after they are sexually assaulted?
After a sexual assault, women can experience a wide range of reactions. It is extremely important to note that there is no one pattern of response. Some women respond immediately, others may have delayed reactions. Some women are affected by the assault for a long time whereas others appear to recover rather quickly.
In the early stages, many women report feeling shock, confusion, anxiety, and/or numbness. Sometimes women will experience feelings of denial. In other words, they may not fully acknowledge what has happened to them or they may downplay the intensity of the experience. This reaction may be more common among women who are assaulted by someone they know.
What are some early reactions to sexual assault?
In the first few days and weeks following the assault, it is very normal for a woman to experience intense and sometimes unpredictable emotions. She may have repeated strong memories of the event that are difficult to ignore, and nightmares are not uncommon. Women also report having difficulty concentrating and sleeping, and they may feel jumpy or on edge. While these initial reactions are normal and expected, some women may experience severe, highly disruptive symptoms that make it incredibly difficult to function in the first month following the assault. When these problems disrupt the woman's daily life, and prevent her from seeking assistance or telling friends and family members, the woman may have Acute Stress Disorder (ASD). Symptoms of ASD include:
◾Feeling numb and detached, like being in a daze or a dream, or feeling that the world is strange and unreal
◾Difficulty remembering important parts of the assault
◾Reliving the assault through repeated thoughts, memories, or nightmares
◾Avoidance of things (places, thoughts, feelings) that remind the woman of the assault
◾Anxiety or increased arousal (e.g., difficulty sleeping, concentrating, etc.)
"Feeling detached, like being in a daze or a dream, or feeling that the world is strange and unreal."
By her very admittance, said teacher claims the same feelings, though uses them as some sort of spiritual "realization" or "liberation".
"Difficult remembering ..."
I don't know the details of the assaults. I would never dare ask such invasive questions, but for sure the teacher touts "loss of memory" and "difficulty remembering" as a sign of her spiritual advancement.
".... difficulty sleeping ..."
Again, by her admission, she has admitted to as much.
What are some other reactions that women have following a sexual assault?
Anger
Many victims of sexual assault report struggling with anger after the assault. Although this is a natural reaction to such a violating event, there is some research that suggests that prolonged, intense anger can interfere with the recovery process and further disrupt a woman's life.
Shame and guilt
These feelings are common reactions to sexual assault. Some women blame themselves for what has happened or feel shameful about being an assault victim. This reaction can be even stronger among women who are assaulted by someone that they know, or who do not receive support from their friends, family, or authorities, following the incident. Shame and guilt can also get in the way of a woman's recovery by preventing her from telling others about what happened and getting assistance.
Social problems
Social problems can sometimes arise following a sexual assault. A woman can experience problems in her marital relationship or in her friendships. Sometimes an assault survivor will be too anxious or depressed to want to participate in social activities. Many women report difficulty trusting others after the assault, so it can be difficult to develop new relationships. Performance at work and school can also be affected.
Sexual problems
Sexual problems can be among the most long-standing problems experienced by women who are the victims of sexual assault. Women can be afraid of and try to avoid any sexual activity; they may experience an overall decrease in sexual interest and desire.
Alcohol and drug use
Substance abuse can sometimes become problematic for women who are the victims of assault. A large-scale study found that compared to non-victims, rape survivors were 3.4 times more likely to use marijuana, 6 times more likely to use cocaine, and 10 times more likely to use other major drugs. Often, women will report that they use these substances to control other symptoms related to their assault.
PTSD
Posttraumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD) involves a pattern of symptoms that some individuals develop after experiencing a traumatic event such as sexual assault. Symptoms of PTSD include repeated thoughts of the assault; memories and nightmares; avoidance of thoughts, feelings, and situations related to the assault; and increased arousal (e.g., difficulty sleeping and concentrating, jumpiness, irritability). One study that examined PTSD symptoms among women who were raped found that 94% of women experienced these symptoms during the two weeks immediately following the rape. Nine months later, about 30% of the women were still reporting this pattern of symptoms. The National Women's Study reported that almost 1/3 of all rape victims develop PTSD sometime during their lives and 11% of rape victims currently suffer from the disorder.
Again, just basing this on what the teacher has either a) admitted or b) revealed in action and behavior:
"... prolonged, intense anger can interfere with the recovery process and further disrupt a woman's life."
Her anger, moments of rage, irritability, impatience and rudeness duly noted. You need not be a student to receive the wrath; sadly, simply serving her lunch a restaurant fits the bill.
"Social problems and sexual problems"
She has a difficulty maintaining relationships OUTSIDE of those in her group (her daughter being only one of a few people which she is known to keep in regular contact with). She has even more difficulty maintaining relationships WITHIN her group (like it or not, deny it or not, the guru and student role is a relationship subject to all the characteristics of any relationship: mutual respect, mutual understanding, personal autonomy, trust, love, independence, etc.). She has, admittedly, had many marriages and divorces. Again, I am in no way attempting to judge the woman's psychological impairments, but her behavior. It is also no longer a surprise (and a very reasonable reaction) why she is a celibate. I understand more now then ever why she behaves, acts and believes in the ways she does.
"Alcohol and drug abuse"
While we can now see why she requires (and uses quite a bit daily) the medication she is prescribed, it can be said that the reason isn't to "take the edge off", but to "deal with the trauma" that is not only still present, but has been turned into a spiritual attainment rather than seen (as difficult for her students and even more so for her) as psychological disorder as a result of intense, repeated and prolonged trauma. Her addiction to food, therefore, is also of no surprise.
"Posttraumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD) involves a pattern of symptoms that some individuals develop after experiencing a traumatic event such as sexual assault. Symptoms of PTSD include repeated thoughts of the assault; memories and nightmares; avoidance of thoughts, feelings, and situations related to the assault; and increased arousal (e.g., difficulty sleeping and concentrating, jumpiness, irritability). One study that examined PTSD symptoms among women who were raped found that 94% of women experienced these symptoms during the two weeks immediately following the rape. Nine months later, about 30% of the women were still reporting this pattern of symptoms. The National Women's Study reported that almost 1/3 of all rape victims develop PTSD sometime during their lives and 11% of rape victims currently suffer from the disorder."
She claims to have no thoughts, none, what-so-ever. She also claims this is a sign of "spiritual advancement". Her irritability and anger, touted as "crazy wisdom", can be verified by all of her students (past and present); but is by no means limited to them. You need only serve her in a restaurant, be her cashier in a grocery store, or someone she happens to meet in the throws of her anger and anxiety. It is, given her admitted diagnosis (which she also admits, by her drug use and disability funds alone, is still be treated for). The difference between her students and her doctor is he ascribes her symptoms as classical, documented and definite characteristics for what he is treating for; where as, on the contrary, those of us wanting to believe labeled them all as "spiritual".
She is not a woman to be feared (out of fear of "hell", damnation or walking away from a guru); she is simply a woman struggling to come to terms with her trauma, to disassociate through spiritual feel good ideals, and doing what ever one else on the planet is doing and has always done: looking for peace and happiness.
There is a wonderful movie (available on Netflix, that I know of) called 'Kumare'. It is about a man that pretends to be a guru, dupes many willing believers, though repeatedly tells them "I am not who you think I am". In the end he reveals his con. I'm afraid we've simply fallen for the same. And, sadly (for us), she has always told us: I suffer from and currently being treated for PTSD. It's all there; we were just too afraid to look for ourselves and use our own judgment, reason and logic.
In lieu of this, not much else need be said. It's clear. Whether or not another chooses to see, or close their eyes, is always and forever more up to that individual.
Peace and love (even to this teacher. May she, most of all, find help, peace and some love).
Holly
xo
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